You would think that people would see that tax "cuts" and giving money back hasn't done shit to help the economy except put us more in debt. Yet we are continuing down that path.
We need to get back to the strong survivng, if you can't help yourself then drown with the rest.
Budmantom
Lifer
- Aug 17, 2002
- 13,103
- 1
- 81
Tell us your economic basis for this conclusion. Rush said so?
It's hard to say how foolish and immoral I think people with your views are.
I'd really like to see the US split into two nations where people like you can go to the other one than I'm in and we can see you prove how bad the policies you want are.
But you get no nukes. We'll protect you like we do Canada.
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
But dude I HAVE to have that HDTV man.. without it I cannot live!
Hundreds of billions wasted on corrupt corpotocracy? Sure! People getting HDTV's? Who do they think they are!
The simpletons who cannot understand the real economic problems and do no more than resent and look down on those a bit poorer than thye are would doom this country.
TheSlamma
Diamond Member
- Sep 6, 2005
- 7,625
- 5
- 81
Seriously you think your typical American debt stops there? My point is Americans have to have everything they can't afford and we make this false sense that without this insane spending style the economy will crumble. New cars, big name clothing, fancy electronics, bigger houses then they can afford and then all the little crap that adds up to 8 fully loaded credit cards all of this and to top it all off we then tell people things like, "Don't pay off your home, you want that as a tax break" So people have zero equity in their life just a shit-ton of debt.Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
But dude I HAVE to have that HDTV man.. without it I cannot live!
Hundreds of billions wasted on corrupt corpotocracy? Sure! People getting HDTV's? Who do they think they are!
The simpletons who cannot understand the real economic problems and do no more than resent and look down on those a bit poorer than thye are would doom this country.
Sure big name corps have hurt us I'm not blind to that either, I never have supported these bailouts for them, but that is by no means reason to either A: turn a blind eye or B: tit for tat when it comes to common Americans piss poor spending habits that get THEMSELVES in trouble either.
Edit: I'm also aware that some people cannot control that they are poor.. but many people are in control of it, they just can't stop the spending machine inside them that just can't stop buying stuff they DON'T NEED.
"It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now ... Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus."
? John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, president's news conference
"Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few years an increased ? not a reduced ? flow of revenues to the federal government."
? John F. Kennedy, Jan. 17, 1963, annual budget message to the Congress, fiscal year 1964
"In today's economy, fiscal prudence and responsibility call for tax reduction even if it temporarily enlarges the federal deficit ? why reducing taxes is the best way open to us to increase revenues."
? John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: "The Economic Report Of The President"
"It is no contradiction ? the most important single thing we can do to stimulate investment in today's economy is to raise consumption by major reduction of individual income tax rates."
? John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: "The Economic Report Of The President"
"Our tax system still siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power and reduces the incentive for risk, investment and effort ? thereby aborting our recoveries and stifling our national growth rate."
? John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, message to Congress on tax reduction and reform, House Doc. 43, 88th Congress, 1st Session.
"A tax cut means higher family income and higher business profits and a balanced federal budget. Every taxpayer and his family will have more money left over after taxes for a new car, a new home, new conveniences, education and investment. Every businessman can keep a higher percentage of his profits in his cash register or put it to work expanding or improving his business, and as the national income grows, the federal government will ultimately end up with more revenues."
? John F. Kennedy, Sept. 18, 1963, radio and television address to the nation on tax-reduction bill
"I have asked the secretary of the treasury to report by April 1 on whether present tax laws may be stimulating in undue amounts the flow of American capital to the industrial countries abroad through special preferential treatment."
? John F. Kennedy, Feb. 6, 1961, message to Congress on gold and the balalnce of payments deficit
"In those countries where income taxes are lower than in the United States, the ability to defer the payment of U.S. tax by retaining income in the subsidiary companies provides a tax advantage for companies operating through overseas subsidiaries that is not available to companies operating solely in the United States. Many American investors properly made use of this deferral in the conduct of their foreign investment."
? John F. Kennedy, April 20, 1961, message to Congress on taxation
"Our present tax system ... exerts too heavy a drag on growth ... It reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking ... The present tax load ... distorts economic judgments and channels an undue amount of energy into efforts to avoid tax liabilities."
? John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, press conference
"The present tax codes ... inhibit the mobility and formation of capital, add complexities and inequities which undermine the morale of the taxpayer, and make tax avoidance rather than market factors a prime consideration in too many economic decisions."
? John F. Kennedy, Jan. 23, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform
"In short, it is a paradoxical truth that ... the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. The experience of a number of European countries and Japan have borne this out. This country's own experience with tax reduction in 1954 has borne this out. And the reason is that only full employment can balance the budget, and tax reduction can pave the way to that employment. The purpose of cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus."
? John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, news conference
"The largest single barrier to full employment of our manpower and resources and to a higher rate of economic growth is the unrealistically heavy drag of federal income taxes on private purchasing power, initiative and incentive."
? John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform
"Expansion and modernization of the nation's productive plant is essential to accelerate economic growth and to improve the international competitive position of American industry ... An early stimulus to business investment will promote recovery and increase employment."
? John F. Kennedy, Feb. 2, 1961, message on economic recovery
"We must start now to provide additional stimulus to the modernization of American industrial plants ... I shall propose to the Congress a new tax incentive for businesses to expand their normal investment in plant and equipment."
? John F. Kennedy, Feb. 13, 1961, National Industrial Conference Board
"A bill will be presented to the Congress for action next year. It will include an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in both corporate and personal income taxes. It will include long-needed tax reform that logic and equity demand ... The billions of dollars this bill will place in the hands of the consumer and our businessmen will have both immediate and permanent benefits to our economy. Every dollar released from taxation that is spent or invested will help create a new job and a new salary. And these new jobs and new salaries can create other jobs and other salaries and more customers and more growth for an expanding American economy."
? John F. Kennedy, Aug. 13, 1962, radio and television report on the state of the national economy
"This administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes ... Next year's tax bill should reduce personal as well as corporate income taxes, for those in the lower brackets, who are certain to spend their additional take-home pay, and for those in the middle and upper brackets, who can thereby be encouraged to undertake additional efforts and enabled to invest more capital ... I am confident that the enactment of the right bill next year will in due course increase our gross national product by several times the amount of taxes actually cut."
? John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, news conference
What denial? Obama and the Democratic Congress are perfectly capable of rolling back anything they want to, should they choose to do so.
m1ldslide1
Platinum Member
- Feb 20, 2006
- 2,321
- 0
- 0
I'm not sure what others are thinking, but making six figures as a talented CPA doesn't count as rich, or as proof of concept that the playing field can be levelled. Nor does being a successful doctor or engineer or lawyer. Making eight figures because you worked hard and then got very freakin' lucky makes you rich and influential. Actually, even more commonly, being born into money is what makes you rich and influential.
m1ldslide1
Platinum Member
- Feb 20, 2006
- 2,321
- 0
- 0
I found this especially illustrative:
http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=19
Now it's possible... just maybe... that JFK was a politician. When I see that income over $400k in 1962 was taxed at 91%, I realize instantly that there were what, like 5 guys making that much money then? Do you really think that had any effect on the economy?
I also find it interesting that the tax rate for the bottom 5% during that period was lowered from 20% to 16%, but the lowest taxable income rate was also lowered from $4000 to $1000, which was a substantial decrease at the time. IOW, the rate of taxation was lowered by 4%, but the floor for taxable income was dropped by an amount that had to have affected millions of Americans (median income was $4500 in 1963).
What I'm getting at is that yes, taxes were slashed at the top, but it would have had very little effect on the amount of taxes collected by the government. It appears to have been spin to sell the fleecing of the middle class, and the trend continues throughout the timeline.
m1ldslide1
Platinum Member
- Feb 20, 2006
- 2,321
- 0
- 0
People and couples making over $250k are going to experience an income tax increase of a few tenths of a percent, right? You call that getting bent over?
Besides that has nothing to do with the wealth concentration at the top. My point was that those couples making $250k are to the very wealthy what a homeless crack-whore is to JS80.
So he talks all confident and sweet before the election, and now he warns that it'll be BAD.. what's new?
I mean it'd be same with John McCain or anyone else.. We had enough of this already, just give us results!
I mean it'd be same with John McCain or anyone else.. We had enough of this already, just give us results!
Yeah, if you ignore that they get hit by the AMT and cannot claim any of Obama's bonanza of tax credits.
Reading comprehension: you're doing it wrong.
The budget deficit will rise to $1.2 trillion in '09 ... and spending increases and tax cuts PLANNED will PUSH that figure higher.
I think most people (perhaps yourself excluded) are perfectly aware where that $1.2 trillion deficit is coming from.
Thank you, winnar, for actually creating a relevant Obama post for once. I hope we'll see at least some decreased spending. Remember, we already have a trillion dollar deficit this year (once you include the $700B bailout on top of the rest of the spending).
Half of the $700B hasn't been spent. It doesn't count for the year 2008.
The congressional officials said Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson passed the word over the weekend that he intends to leave $350 billion untouched when the administration leaves office on Jan. 20.
So that's an excuse to spend? Tell me what economics course did you take in college? If you even took a course please cite the text that explains you have to SPEND money to get out of debt?
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