Obama says trillion-dollar deficits may last years

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...go_pr_wh/obama_deficit

WASHINGTON ? President-elect Barack Obama says the nation probably faces huge deficits for years to come, but heavy spending is needed now to spur the economy.

Obama said Tuesday the deficit appears on track to hit $1 trillion soon. Speaking to reporters after meeting with top economic aides, Obama said: "Potentially we've got trillion-dollar deficits for years to come, even with the economic recovery that we are working on."

He wants Congress to approve a stimulus plan of about $775 billion.

The federal deficit was about $455 billion when the last fiscal year ended on Sept. 30, 2008.


Wonder how much Obama's first term will beat Bush's first term, or Bush's 2nd term. I remember when Democrats were crying about $100b or so in 2002 during the recession.

That is the price for fixing 8 years of Bushonomics... We voted for Bush, now we have to pay the price. This is in no way Obama's fault... Obama is the cure, Bush is the disease.

Round 2 of the 'debt is bad when Bush does it, but good when Obama does twice as much'.

I wonder if that applies to drinking.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

If he had attempted an education he might understand the reasons..

It takes 7 generations to move up from the lower class to the middle class (average).

How did it take me 0 generations to move up from penniless immigrant to top 5% in income by the age of 25?

And you're right I'm not really that smart. In fact I'm a Republican which makes me even dumber. So a dumbass like me can make six figures, why can't you losers?

You can take someone out of the Trailer Park, but you can't take out the Trash from them.

Oh, that's a bit strong....

So, JS80 - how makes you this money?

I punch numbers into spreadsheets.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: XZeroII
That is impossible. Just 2 months ago he had a plan to balance the budget. Things have not changed drastically.

Oh well. I already knew he was lying just to get into office so it's no surprise to me. It's interesting to see the the apologists come out of the woodwork defending him now. My how the tables have turned...

When did he claim he was going to balance the budget? I know he had talked about paygo before, but that wouldn't balance the budget, it would just help to keep the deficit from spiraling further out of control. After the subprime crisis really hit, though, that pretty much went out the window.

I'm sorry. Where will he be getting an extra trillion dollars to pay for this stimulus?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...go_pr_wh/obama_deficit

WASHINGTON ? President-elect Barack Obama says the nation probably faces huge deficits for years to come, but heavy spending is needed now to spur the economy.

Obama said Tuesday the deficit appears on track to hit $1 trillion soon. Speaking to reporters after meeting with top economic aides, Obama said: "Potentially we've got trillion-dollar deficits for years to come, even with the economic recovery that we are working on."

He wants Congress to approve a stimulus plan of about $775 billion.

The federal deficit was about $455 billion when the last fiscal year ended on Sept. 30, 2008.


Wonder how much Obama's first term will beat Bush's first term, or Bush's 2nd term. I remember when Democrats were crying about $100b or so in 2002 during the recession.

That is the price for fixing 8 years of Bushonomics... We voted for Bush, now we have to pay the price. This is in no way Obama's fault... Obama is the cure, Bush is the disease.

Obama is the cure for what? He's admitting he can't fix it. He ran on fixing it. Is the Messiah not up to the challege? Oprah told me he was the one! For someone as smart as Obama surely he can figure this out. As I predict, the Obama Presidency will be the 'But Bush' Presidency. He will fail worse than Bush while claiming everything is Bush's fault.

According to the lefties, anything that's happened from 1994 or so through 2018 or so is directly attributable to George W. Bush.

That's influence, I suppose.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: XZeroII
That is impossible. Just 2 months ago he had a plan to balance the budget. Things have not changed drastically.

Oh well. I already knew he was lying just to get into office so it's no surprise to me. It's interesting to see the the apologists come out of the woodwork defending him now. My how the tables have turned...

When did he claim he was going to balance the budget? I know he had talked about paygo before, but that wouldn't balance the budget, it would just help to keep the deficit from spiraling further out of control. After the subprime crisis really hit, though, that pretty much went out the window.

I'm sorry. Where will he be getting an extra trillion dollars to pay for this stimulus?

China, at 2.5% interest rate.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: XZeroII
That is impossible. Just 2 months ago he had a plan to balance the budget. Things have not changed drastically.

Oh well. I already knew he was lying just to get into office so it's no surprise to me. It's interesting to see the the apologists come out of the woodwork defending him now. My how the tables have turned...

When did he claim he was going to balance the budget? I know he had talked about paygo before, but that wouldn't balance the budget, it would just help to keep the deficit from spiraling further out of control. After the subprime crisis really hit, though, that pretty much went out the window.

I'm sorry. Where will he be getting an extra trillion dollars to pay for this stimulus?

That is the million (err, trillion) dollar question.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: JS80

I punch numbers into spreadsheets.

Ah, interesting. How did you find this line of work?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: XZeroII
That is impossible. Just 2 months ago he had a plan to balance the budget. Things have not changed drastically.

Oh well. I already knew he was lying just to get into office so it's no surprise to me. It's interesting to see the the apologists come out of the woodwork defending him now. My how the tables have turned...

When did he claim he was going to balance the budget? I know he had talked about paygo before, but that wouldn't balance the budget, it would just help to keep the deficit from spiraling further out of control. After the subprime crisis really hit, though, that pretty much went out the window.

I'm sorry. Where will he be getting an extra trillion dollars to pay for this stimulus?

China, at 2.5% interest rate.

You think? Why should they loan us money @ 2.5% when we are deflating the value of the dollar at a much higher rate? What if they flat out stop loaning us the money. It'll get printed out of thin air.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: bamacre
You think? Why should they loan us money @ 2.5% when we are deflating the value of the dollar at a much higher rate? What if they flat out stop loaning us the money. It'll get printed out of thin air.

Then China's economy collapses because there's nobody to buy their crappy products.

Since the government doesn't have the balls to raise taxes and cut useless spending when it's of critical importance, they'll probably just inflate their way out of this as you've stated. Inflation won't completely destroy the economy, but it will cripple anyone who holds their savings as cash or is on a fixed income (retired people).

This all happened before in the 1970s and 1980s. Welcome back, 10% inflation.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: JS80

I punch numbers into spreadsheets.

Ah, interesting. How did you find this line of work?

College, Major Econ, Minor Accounting => Public accounting => Private company, bust my ass.

I'm sure you can replace that with "engineering" or "law school" or "med school" or any other field.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: XZeroII
That is impossible. Just 2 months ago he had a plan to balance the budget. Things have not changed drastically.

Oh well. I already knew he was lying just to get into office so it's no surprise to me. It's interesting to see the the apologists come out of the woodwork defending him now. My how the tables have turned...

When did he claim he was going to balance the budget? I know he had talked about paygo before, but that wouldn't balance the budget, it would just help to keep the deficit from spiraling further out of control. After the subprime crisis really hit, though, that pretty much went out the window.

I'm sorry. Where will he be getting an extra trillion dollars to pay for this stimulus?

China, at 2.5% interest rate.

You think? Why should they loan us money @ 2.5% when we are deflating the value of the dollar at a much higher rate? What if they flat out stop loaning us the money. It'll get printed out of thin air.

It's in China's interest to prop up their massive treasury and USD reserves and do what they can to not have the US collapse. They gained like 40% on the long bonds in 2008, i'm sure they don't give a shit about 2.5% yield.

I don't think the US govt can't print money out of thin air. Only Zimbabwe does that.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: bamacre
You think? Why should they loan us money @ 2.5% when we are deflating the value of the dollar at a much higher rate? What if they flat out stop loaning us the money. It'll get printed out of thin air.

Then China's economy collapses because there's nobody to buy their crappy products.

Since the government doesn't have the balls to raise taxes and cut useless spending when it's of critical importance, they'll probably just inflate their way out of this as you've stated. Inflation won't completely destroy the economy, but it will cripple anyone who holds their savings as cash or is on a fixed income (retired people).

This all happened before in the 1970s and 1980s. Welcome back, 10% inflation.

China will one day see that they have a billion people who can use Chinese goods.

 

[SSSnail]

Obvious observation is obvious.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: bamacre
China will one day see that they have a billion people who can use Chinese goods.

USA GDP - 14 trillion dollars
China GDP - 3.5 trillion dollars

Even though China has a billion people, it's actually a small market. They can make a lot of things, but the people there are not wealthy enough to buy them.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: bamacre
China will one day see that they have a billion people who can use Chinese goods.

USA GDP - 14 trillion dollars
China GDP - 3.5 trillion dollars

Even though China has a billion people, it's actually a small market. They can make a lot of things, but the people there are not wealthy enough to buy them.

That's very likely to change over the next 10-20 years. There was a thread about this, but I can't find it.

Found a couple links...
Text
Original Source (Google cache)

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: bamacre
You think? Why should they loan us money @ 2.5% when we are deflating the value of the dollar at a much higher rate? What if they flat out stop loaning us the money. It'll get printed out of thin air.

Then China's economy collapses because there's nobody to buy their crappy products.

Since the government doesn't have the balls to raise taxes and cut useless spending when it's of critical importance, they'll probably just inflate their way out of this as you've stated. Inflation won't completely destroy the economy, but it will cripple anyone who holds their savings as cash or is on a fixed income (retired people).

This all happened before in the 1970s and 1980s. Welcome back, 10% inflation.

China will one day see that they have a billion people who can use Chinese goods.

When will that be? By and large the Chinese people are poor. They aren't likely to suddenly become a massive middle class without the US economy to cause it. Even now there is a ginormous exodus from the cities to the farms.

 

[SickBeast]

I think Obama is going to bring alot of change to the US, but it will cost a great deal of money, and eventually he will have to either raise taxes to compensate, or else cut out the new programs like healthcare.

I think that the end result is that the US will look alot like Canada currently does. While this isn't terrible, I think that the US has certain things going for it right now that would go away. The one big thing is the amount of money that the average American has to spend as they see fit. As a Canadian I'm pretty sure that I have about 30% less to spend than an American in my same position. I'm not sure if I would sacrifice my free healthcare and cheap university tuition rates in exchange for more power as a consumer.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I think Obama is going to bring alot of change to the US, but it will cost a great deal of money, and eventually he will have to either raise taxes to compensate, or else cut out the new programs like healthcare.

I think that the end result is that the US will look alot like Canada currently does. While this isn't terrible, I think that the US has certain things going for it right now that would go away. The one big thing is the amount of money that the average American has to spend as they see fit. As a Canadian I'm pretty sure that I have about 30% less to spend than an American in my same position. I'm not sure if I would sacrifice my free healthcare and cheap university tuition rates in exchange for more power as a consumer.

Taxes will (and should) go up. I'd assume that will be coming in his second term if he gets one, because 1) the economy may not have sufficiently recovered in only four years and 2) raising taxes is political suicide. Nobody cares about our debt, and it seems like those that do would rather we cut spending to reduce it, not raise taxes. Nobody likes higher taxes, but there's no way government is going to cut back significantly on spending, so it has to happen.

I couldn't see him trying to tackle UHC, but who knows. We'll get some healthcare reform no doubt, but I don't think it will be anything that ambitious.

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Zebo
We need to seize the top 1%'s money. They own 28% of nations wealth and most did so by hook and crook. Thats the only way we will fix these issues and save country. Instead Obama is bought and sold by same crowd who will get rich beyond belief getting infrastructure contracts instead of trickling down. Sorry but thats reality of kelptocracy in which we live.

http://kelsocartography.com/blog/?p=1320

Do you realize what kind of effect and consequence that would have? It would literally be the beginning of the end of this country.

What if he said take the bottom 1%'s money? Would that also "be the beginning of the end of this country"?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Zebo
We need to seize the top 1%'s money. They own 28% of nations wealth and most did so by hook and crook. Thats the only way we will fix these issues and save country. Instead Obama is bought and sold by same crowd who will get rich beyond belief getting infrastructure contracts instead of trickling down. Sorry but thats reality of kelptocracy in which we live.

http://kelsocartography.com/blog/?p=1320

Do you realize what kind of effect and consequence that would have? It would literally be the beginning of the end of this country.

I think it would be just the beginning of a great America instead of soon to be cast system we have been moving towards.

Until they come for the next top 1%. And the next. And the next. And the next. And the next.

Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more

That about right? Who feeds the poor after that?

Besides, do you really think the top 1% swim in vaults full of money? That money is in your home. Your company. In order to get at that money in liquid form they'd have to call all of the debts in currently held by that top 1%. Tens of millions would be instantly out of work and out of their homes.

If you want to stop the rich from getting richer, stop borrowing from them. Same goes for every American.

Nah no calling in anything - I'd just institute a tax of 90% over the first 1m in any and all income. Generally keep tax structure the way it is under that and treat all income as earned income.

Got to pay the piper (chinese mainly) and they have it to tax, we, 95% of us, don't.

More importantly I think there is a severe gap between those at the very top and everybody else that needs to be addressed to provide the basics. Health Care, child care, education though post secondary, and even a tombstone any American shouldn't have to worry about with wealth per capita we create. Problem is the way it's set up currently distribution is skewed, tax code aims to correct some of that but its not going far enough IMO.

Spare me the whole mythology of wealth spiel about them 'earning it' or them leaving. You're talking to a guy who is intimately familiar with a head start, unlimited chances and how people with money help each other out.

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: TehMac
It's weird how so many people take everything Obama says as the gospel. Since when did he have a P.h.D. in economics?

you have failed to notice his wealth of advisors, besides, the man has Warren Buffet and Eric Schmidt on speed dial.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Zebo
We need to seize the top 1%'s money. They own 28% of nations wealth and most did so by hook and crook. Thats the only way we will fix these issues and save country. Instead Obama is bought and sold by same crowd who will get rich beyond belief getting infrastructure contracts instead of trickling down. Sorry but thats reality of kelptocracy in which we live.

http://kelsocartography.com/blog/?p=1320

Do you realize what kind of effect and consequence that would have? It would literally be the beginning of the end of this country.

I think it would be just the beginning of a great America instead of soon to be cast system we have been moving towards.

Until they come for the next top 1%. And the next. And the next. And the next. And the next.

Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more

That about right? Who feeds the poor after that?

Besides, do you really think the top 1% swim in vaults full of money? That money is in your home. Your company. In order to get at that money in liquid form they'd have to call all of the debts in currently held by that top 1%. Tens of millions would be instantly out of work and out of their homes.

If you want to stop the rich from getting richer, stop borrowing from them. Same goes for every American.

Nah no calling in anything - I'd just institute a tax of 90% over the first 1m in any and all income. Generally keep tax structure the way it is under that and treat all income as earned income.

Got to pay the piper (chinese mainly) and they have it to tax, we, 95% of us, don't.

More importantly I think there is a severe gap between those at the very top and everybody else that needs to be addressed to provide the basics. Health Care, child care, education though post secondary, and even a tombstone any American shouldn't have to worry about with wealth per capita we create. Problem is the way it's set up currently distribution is skewed, tax code aims to correct some of that but its not going far enough IMO.

Spare me the whole mythology of wealth spiel about them 'earning it' or them leaving. You're talking to a guy who is intimately familiar with a head start, unlimited chances and how people with money help each other out.

I've often had ideas such as this, and I've wondered why so many people have a problem with it. Are there really that many people on here that make in excess of $1M per year? If so, then what do you need that much money for? With that type of income you could basically have unlimited vacations with your family and live a life of lavish luxury.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Zebo
We need to seize the top 1%'s money. They own 28% of nations wealth and most did so by hook and crook. Thats the only way we will fix these issues and save country. Instead Obama is bought and sold by same crowd who will get rich beyond belief getting infrastructure contracts instead of trickling down. Sorry but thats reality of kelptocracy in which we live.

http://kelsocartography.com/blog/?p=1320

Do you realize what kind of effect and consequence that would have? It would literally be the beginning of the end of this country.

What if he said take the bottom 1%'s money? Would that also "be the beginning of the end of this country"?

That might ironically benefit the economy - those in the bottom 1% will scramble to not be in the bottom 1% anymore and increase productivity from the poor. But if you're threatening to take the top X%'s wealth, you will see a mass exodus from the country of not only the already wealth, but the talented who now has no incentive to do well.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Zebo
We need to seize the top 1%'s money. They own 28% of nations wealth and most did so by hook and crook. Thats the only way we will fix these issues and save country. Instead Obama is bought and sold by same crowd who will get rich beyond belief getting infrastructure contracts instead of trickling down. Sorry but thats reality of kelptocracy in which we live.

http://kelsocartography.com/blog/?p=1320

Do you realize what kind of effect and consequence that would have? It would literally be the beginning of the end of this country.

I think it would be just the beginning of a great America instead of soon to be cast system we have been moving towards.

Until they come for the next top 1%. And the next. And the next. And the next. And the next.

Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more

That about right? Who feeds the poor after that?

Besides, do you really think the top 1% swim in vaults full of money? That money is in your home. Your company. In order to get at that money in liquid form they'd have to call all of the debts in currently held by that top 1%. Tens of millions would be instantly out of work and out of their homes.

If you want to stop the rich from getting richer, stop borrowing from them. Same goes for every American.

Nah no calling in anything - I'd just institute a tax of 90% over the first 1m in any and all income. Generally keep tax structure the way it is under that and treat all income as earned income.

Got to pay the piper (chinese mainly) and they have it to tax, we, 95% of us, don't.

More importantly I think there is a severe gap between those at the very top and everybody else that needs to be addressed to provide the basics. Health Care, child care, education though post secondary, and even a tombstone any American shouldn't have to worry about with wealth per capita we create. Problem is the way it's set up currently distribution is skewed, tax code aims to correct some of that but its not going far enough IMO.

Spare me the whole mythology of wealth spiel about them 'earning it' or them leaving. You're talking to a guy who is intimately familiar with a head start, unlimited chances and how people with money help each other out.

I've often had ideas such as this, and I've wondered why so many people have a problem with it. Are there really that many people on here that make in excess of $1M per year? If so, then what do you need that much money for? With that type of income you could basically have unlimited vacations with your family and live a life of lavish luxury.

We tried a 90% tax rate. John Kennedy slashed it because it didn't work.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Zebo
We need to seize the top 1%'s money. They own 28% of nations wealth and most did so by hook and crook. Thats the only way we will fix these issues and save country. Instead Obama is bought and sold by same crowd who will get rich beyond belief getting infrastructure contracts instead of trickling down. Sorry but thats reality of kelptocracy in which we live.

http://kelsocartography.com/blog/?p=1320

Do you realize what kind of effect and consequence that would have? It would literally be the beginning of the end of this country.

What if he said take the bottom 1%'s money? Would that also "be the beginning of the end of this country"?

We don't need to take their money. Just get rid of the EIC.