Obama?s recession remedy: Tax the poor!

[Budmantom]

Dems should start paying taxes....

 

[1prophet]

How about we use the same psychological tools through the media which Edward Bernays used to get women to start smoking and people to become compulsive consumers but in reverse.

Start here to see how it was done

But then again Government and Corporations might not be to happy about their loss of revenue.

 

[Liet]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
It is giving you the opportunity to be healthier, save money, and avoid a tax all at the same time.

I'm still not grasping why you think it's even remotely acceptable for a government to have a say in what you do to your own body.

Are you pro-choice, by the way?
Are you pro seatbelt laws?

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: Budmantom
Dems should start paying taxes....

how many Republicans pay more taxes than Warren Buffet?

you are quite the troll.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I didnt quit for my health. I made a deal with my wife that if I were to quit for her and the kids, that my money would go into buying me lottery tickets, in another hope that before I should die I may win it to make sure my wife and kids are set before I die. The day after I win the lottery I think I be ok to finally let go knowing my wife and kids wont have to worry no more.

Wow this has to be the dumbest statement I've ever been witness to. I like you Dave, I mean I like crazy and you are nuts - but Lotto is like a 18% payback - Hell I'll give you 50% right now!

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: bbdub333
<sophistry>

I won't deal in it. I presented 3 peer reviewed journals showing fatties and smokers are cheaper to society. You don't like it, take it up with them, or present some other peer reviewed long term data.

 

[StageLeft]

Cigs should cost 30/ pack to ween the idiots off their opiate. They'll thank you for it later.

 

[Liet]

Sweet, does this mean I can force you to stop drinking alcohol?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Liet

Originally posted by: Xavier434
It is giving you the opportunity to be healthier, save money, and avoid a tax all at the same time.

I'm still not grasping why you think it's even remotely acceptable for a government to have a say in what you do to your own body.

Are you pro-choice, by the way?
Are you pro seatbelt laws?

They are not telling us what to do with our bodies. They are telling us that taxes on cigs will be increased by a dollar. Nothing more. Nothing less. You and everyone else is still in 100% control over whether or not they have to pay that tax. Personally, I plan to pay it without a fuss.

By your logic, that is like saying the government is telling me not to buy and eat any food that comes pre-prepared in anyway since they place taxes on it and not unprepared foods. I believe that differs state by state, but you get the point.

I am not answering your other questions because they are irrelevant to the topic and I would prefer to keep things focused.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Liet
Sweet, does this mean I can force you to stop drinking alcohol?

The vultures are not stupid.

Alcohol is much different class than tobacco since everyone can make it trivially. That's why taxes are not 300% like tobacco. At most I've seen is 30%. The moral police would love to though.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Hmm.. i view this as a tax on (1) the stupid and (2) on those who will need the most medicare coverage later in life.

I don't really have a problem with it.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
If you have seen the south park episode on smoking... I could see how this could be a tax on the poor. Poor people can't afford vacations in exotic places nor a cabin retreat.

With that said, if a lot more smokers could quit smoking and find something else to do that would be great.

anyone who doesn't see this as a tax on the poor or middle class is an absolute idiot...sure in the liberal utopian vision of how this nation should be everyone should stop smoking, only shop at whole foods, and drive their hybrid, but the reality is the poor smoke, the poor shop for cheap food cause it is what they can afford...start taxing these items and you punish them for their vices..chances are the increase won't cause them to stop either because of their addiction.

I agree with you.

 

[Wreckem]

This was in the last SCHIP bill that failed twice previously. Its nothing new, nor did Obama bring about the idea.

It didnt pass previously, and it wont pass now. Moderate Dems in the House from tobacco states HAVE to vote no. Add in the Blue Dogs and Republicans, and it fails again.

Between the spending hikes the bill wants and the tax hikes to ALL tobacco products, there are to many people who need to vote no for political reasons.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Liet
I was about to ask what programs you were referring to...

I agree Xavier, child healthcare programs deserve to be supported, and I propose we tax only those who drive non-hybrid cars. I think $1 a day is fine, so each one will be donating $365 a year.

You don't have a problem with that, right? I mean, it's only one little dollar a day, they can clearly afford it if they're willing to spend so much on gas!

I understand your point, but it is a lot easier for people to control whether or not they get taxed with this smokers thing than it is for everyone to transition to a hybrid car due to finances. This is a tax that people have a lot of control over whether or not they have to pay it. It is giving you the opportunity to be healthier, save money, and avoid a tax all at the same time. Likewise, it will also increase tax revenue for a well deserved program. Is it perfect? No, but I am ok with that. Is it much better than usual? You betcha.

But if everyone suddenly decided to quit smoking because of this tax then who would pay for the little children's healthcare? I understand that I don't have to like taxes. I understand that we will always have new taxes. But what I will never agree to is that I have to bend over and take it without at least a word to my elected officials.

This tax doesn't really affect me but my point is that I hate taxes just as much as I believe everyone should... assuming you are a part of a group who actually pays taxes. (you being general in this sentence)

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Hmm.. i view this as a tax on (1) the stupid and (2) on those who will need the most medicare coverage later in life.

I don't really have a problem with it.

Well, our soon to be President definitely fits #1 then. #2 will probably be out of the question since I'm sure he's already set for life.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

How does the addictive nature of nicotine have anything to do with the choice aspect of this issue? That sounds more like a willpower and priority issue to me rather than a choice issue. Completely different.

You say you smoke. How often have you tried to quit?
I've been smoke free for 5 years, and I stuggle with it every day.
I've had long talks with my father, who has been smoke free for 20 years, and he struggles with it. There is only so much willpower in a person, not everyone can just quit.

to each his own, i smoked for a decade before quitting cold turkey almost four years ago and i never struggle with it, not even when drunk. nicotine is about as physically addictive as caffeine or chocolate.

as for HR2 - :thumbsup:

For you that may be true...but everyones different and a little tolerance and compassion for those people who are not as strong as you might be a good thing...just a thought.

I smoked for 20 years and quit a million times?.pure torture. It's now been 19 years, 13 days, 13 hours and 47 minutes since my last cigarette and it amazes me that I still want want every once in a while. BTW SMOGZINN...gratz on 5 years!

Ugh... Seven months cold turkey for me, and it blows (smoked for only 8 years). I still think about it all the time. That said, there's no way I would've smoked less if taxes were raised $.60 - I just would've been that much poorer.

So if nicotine is as addictive as heroin (or something like that) then won't there be a point where people start committing crimes to get cash for their fix? If the taxes are raised much more, could we see a nic-fit fueled crime wave sweeping over the slums of the nation?

 

[jinduy]

taxing smokers sound great
legalize meth and other illegal drugs and let's tax them on that too

that's a lot of underground money being uncovered

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I didnt quit for my health. I made a deal with my wife that if I were to quit for her and the kids, that my money would go into buying me lottery tickets, in another hope that before I should die I may win it to make sure my wife and kids are set before I die. The day after I win the lottery I think I be ok to finally let go knowing my wife and kids wont have to worry no more.

Wow this has to be the dumbest statement I've ever been witness to. I like you Dave, I mean I like crazy and you are nuts - but Lotto is like a 18% payback - Hell I'll give you 50% right now!

That was Funboy's post not mine. I've never smoked.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I think anyone who supports any new tax, especially one proposed in a major economic downturn, is crazy... but that's just me.

&

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
I would say that they are voting their way into a new age of slavery and be done with them.

I think both of you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. If you are a pack a day smoker then this new tax reduces your income by $1 per day. To each individual tax payer, this should not be nothing. It is especially ridiculous to claim it as one step closer to an age of slavery. :laugh:

It is a step closer to a new age of slavery. It might be a tiny step, but it is a step in that direction, and I see our government making lots of little steps like it. From giving up small pieces of our privacy to keep up safe, to taxing things we don?t like to because the people that do those things are unpopular.
The real danger of the next millennium will not be governments using guns to enslave the masses, but psychology, media, and economics to entice and prod the masses into voting for their own enslavement.
I?m not saying there is a conspiracy. I don?t think there needs to be one. I think we have simply forgotten the importance of liberty, and so are selling it much too cheaply.

 

[KlokWyze]

Taxing something that leads to a ton extensive medical problems in millions of people to pay for a healthcare program.... what idiots!

 

[Xellos2099]

The poor people don't even pay income tax. My best guess is around 50-60% of the US population don't have to pay income tax and how could you possibilty tax them when they don;t even need to pay?

 

[smokeyjoe]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

It is a step closer to a new age of slavery. It might be a tiny step, but it is a step in that direction, and I see our government making lots of little steps like it. From giving up small pieces of our privacy to keep up safe, to taxing things we don?t like to because the people that do those things are unpopular.
The real danger of the next millennium will not be governments using guns to enslave the masses, but psychology, media, and economics to entice and prod the masses into voting for their own enslavement.
I?m not saying there is a conspiracy. I don?t think there needs to be one. I think we have simply forgotten the importance of liberty, and so are selling it much too cheaply.

It fails being a conspiracy when it is a fact. There have been many tiny steps since the Constitution was ratified. It is a sad state of affairs.

 

[alien42]

nm

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
This was in the last SCHIP bill that failed twice previously. Its nothing new, nor did Obama bring about the idea.

It didnt pass previously, and it wont pass now. Moderate Dems in the House from tobacco states HAVE to vote no. Add in the Blue Dogs and Republicans, and it fails again.

Between the spending hikes the bill wants and the tax hikes to ALL tobacco products, there are to many people who need to vote no for political reasons.

October 3, 2007: Bush Vetoes Children?s Health Bill

Are you telling me Obama will veto H.R.2? You say it failed before, when it was only the President standing in its way. You made a pretty speech about how Congress won't approve it, but they already did so once before. I see that as reason enough to think they'll do it again.

 

[Geekbabe]

I won't mind paying the increased tax if it would shut
up the anti-smoking crowd.