Obama?s recession remedy: Tax the poor!

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
I'm thinking old age should be taxed as well...those old people cost us plenty!

Dumbest post nominee.

None of us have a choice in growing old... everyone has a choice to smoke or not.

 

[theeedude]

I don't like this. He should raise top income tax brackets to pay for SCHIP, not cigarette taxes.

 

[xenolith]

dang IE

repost

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Wait, a tax on a product that directly contributes to increased health care costs for us all... to pay for health care? THAT BASTARD.

So how about a $.60 tax on every fast-food order? Obesity will be the biggest killer this nation has ever seen.

Seems like that would absolutely nail the poor. Its not the wealthy that line up to feed their family off the $1 menu.

I'm not for regressive taxation in general, but of all regressive taxes ones like these are by FAR the least offensive to me. Smokers cost each and every one of us money on health care. For them to pay more for each pack, and have that extra spent on reducing the cost of health care does not exactly enrage me. It's exactly like the gas tax.

Malkin's post is trying to paint Obama as screwing over poor people when we all know that overall they will be much better off with him than with any of the alternatives, and certainly better off than they are today. It's ridiculous and it's typical of her poorly thought out, flailing dishonesty.

As someone already pointed out that by this logic we need to raise the tax on fatty foods, at the number one cause of health costs in America today.
Then we can fight smoking as the number two cause.
Automobiles are number 4, so who could be opposed to a hefty gas tax hike?
Then we hit Sugar coming in with the number 5 cause of public health costs being diabetes. Those damn diabetic costing me money, I say we tax the hell out of the sugar that is killing them!
Wait a moment, number 6 is pregnancy! I am not sure what we will tax to pay for that, but I?m sure we can find something to stop all those greedy people having kids from eating my tax money up.

*disclaimer - These numbers are very non-scientific, and are based on some lose data I pulled from multiple sites. While the actualy ranking might be wrong, the idea holds true. If we decide to tax people on the concept of "I don't like that, and I don't do it, so tax the hell out of them" eventually we will all pay that tax.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
I'm thinking old age should be taxed as well...those old people cost us plenty!

Dumbest post nominee.

None of us have a choice in growing old... everyone has a choice to smoke or not.

Exactly and that fact makes all the difference in the world.

I like this idea a lot.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
I'm thinking old age should be taxed as well...those old people cost us plenty!

Dumbest post nominee.

None of us have a choice in growing old... everyone has a choice to smoke or not.

Lol...I was being facetious dude. So, you say it all boils down to a matter of choice then. OK...well some people choose to work out and eat healthy....some don't. Would you support an additional tax for those who choose to live unheathly lifestyles? After all, it's a choice and it causes your healthcare costs to go up you know.

I think this taxation approach is totally flawed and unfair. Why should smoker's be singled out to foot the S-CHIP bill? Because you deem them as pariahs and don't like them. Or do you have a better reason?

 

[RKDaley]

Nothing new, our state has been doing this for years.
First they used cig/tobacco taxes to fund the clinics geared for kids 18 and under.
And then recently, they placed an initiative on the ballot to up the price of cigs to help fund more clinics. It passed.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
I'm thinking old age should be taxed as well...those old people cost us plenty!

Dumbest post nominee.

None of us have a choice in growing old... everyone has a choice to smoke or not.

Lol...I was being facetious dude. So, you say it all boils down to a matter of choice then. OK...well some people choose to work out and eat healthy....some don't. Would you support an additional tax for those who choose to live unheathly lifestyles? After all, it's a choice and it causes your healthcare costs to go up you know.

And give tax breaks to those that can bench their weight and run a mile under 6 minutes. That'll get people in shape.

 

[Genx87]

The only question I have is when they finally run smokers underground and out of town who will these prohibitionists target next?

I am going to guess

1. Drinkers
2. Fast Food eaters
3. Fat people

 

[Xavier434]

I should also add in the fact that both my SO and I smoke.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
I'm thinking old age should be taxed as well...those old people cost us plenty!

Dumbest post nominee.

None of us have a choice in growing old... everyone has a choice to smoke or not.

Lol...I was being facetious dude. So, you say it all boils down to a matter of choice then. OK...well some people choose to work out and eat healthy....some don't. Would you support an additional tax for those who choose to live unheathly lifestyles? After all, it's a choice and it causes your healthcare costs to go up you know.

I think this taxation approach is totally flawed and unfair. Why should smoker's be singled out to foot the S-CHIP bill? Because you deem them as pariahs and don't like them. Or do you have a better reason?

One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are not able too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

EDIT: I should add, that I smoked for 15 years and have been smoke free for the last 5. I

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

How does the addictive nature of nicotine have anything to do with the choice aspect of this issue? That sounds more like a willpower and priority issue to me rather than a choice issue. Completely different.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

How does the addictive nature of nicotine have anything to do with the choice aspect of this issue? That sounds more like a willpower and priority issue to me rather than a choice issue. Completely different.

You say you smoke. How often have you tried to quit?
I've been smoke free for 5 years, and I stuggle with it every day.
I've had long talks with my father, who has been smoke free for 20 years, and he struggles with it. There is only so much willpower in a person, not everyone can just quit.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

How does the addictive nature of nicotine have anything to do with the choice aspect of this issue? That sounds more like a willpower and priority issue to me rather than a choice issue. Completely different.

I think it's relative. Take fatty foods for example. It's a lot easier to choose not to eat them than it is to put down a smoke and say never again. Then again, skyrocketing the cost of a McD's hamburger from $.59 to $.79 might cause economies to crumble.

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

How does the addictive nature of nicotine have anything to do with the choice aspect of this issue? That sounds more like a willpower and priority issue to me rather than a choice issue. Completely different.

You say you smoke. How often have you tried to quit?
I've been smoke free for 5 years, and I stuggle with it every day.
I've had long talks with my father, who has been smoke free for 20 years, and he struggles with it. There is only so much willpower in a person, not everyone can just quit.

to each his own, i smoked for a decade before quitting cold turkey almost four years ago and i never struggle with it, not even when drunk. nicotine is about as physically addictive as caffeine or chocolate.

as for HR2 - :thumbsup:

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: Genx87
Heh tax it enough and it goes underground. I guess that would be a boon to the police state prohibitionists though. Another black market to expand our police forces to contain.

Maybe it's time to legalize marijuana then, and tax it $10/pack?

Let the dopers cover the insurance program, take billions away from the crime lords and gangs, and save hundreds of millions in police, court and prison expenses.

I have advocated this for years.

Sounds good.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Heh tax it enough and it goes underground. I guess that would be a boon to the police state prohibitionists though. Another black market to expand our police forces to contain.

What is it with our country and declaring war on defenseless plants?

Actually, isn't cigarette smuggling already a big and growing interstate issue between low-tax and high-tax states? You raise a real concern. Still, I support the increase in the federal tax. I have little love of smokers and their habits (especially their habit of flinging their butts all over the place - they're literally everywhere).

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

How does the addictive nature of nicotine have anything to do with the choice aspect of this issue? That sounds more like a willpower and priority issue to me rather than a choice issue. Completely different.

You say you smoke. How often have you tried to quit?
I've been smoke free for 5 years, and I stuggle with it every day.
I've had long talks with my father, who has been smoke free for 20 years, and he struggles with it. There is only so much willpower in a person, not everyone can just quit.

to each his own, i smoked for a decade before quitting cold turkey almost four years ago and i never struggle with it, not even when drunk. nicotine is about as physically addictive as caffeine or chocolate.

as for HR2 - :thumbsup:

And this is what I am talking about, some like you can quit easy, others like me stuggle, and others still find it actually impossible, yet people want to say it is a choice and heap taxes on them while telling themselves that if they didn't want to pay the tax they could just quit.

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: Genx87
The only question I have is when they finally run smokers underground and out of town who will these prohibitionists target next?

I am going to guess

1. Drinkers
2. Fast Food eaters
3. Fat people

Not going to happen because:

1. Alcohol use is deemed to be healthy in moderation.
2. Not all fast food is unhealthy. Some health care officials now say many so-called "healthy" high processed wheat and cereal products are worse.
3. No. They should tax those things that we know cause people to be fat like soft drinks, sugar, and things very high in sugar.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

How does the addictive nature of nicotine have anything to do with the choice aspect of this issue? That sounds more like a willpower and priority issue to me rather than a choice issue. Completely different.

You say you smoke. How often have you tried to quit?
I've been smoke free for 5 years, and I stuggle with it every day.
I've had long talks with my father, who has been smoke free for 20 years, and he struggles with it. There is only so much willpower in a person, not everyone can just quit.

to each his own, i smoked for a decade before quitting cold turkey almost four years ago and i never struggle with it, not even when drunk. nicotine is about as physically addictive as caffeine or chocolate.

as for HR2 - :thumbsup:

For you that may be true...but everyones different and a little tolerance and compassion for those people who are not as strong as you might be a good thing...just a thought.

I smoked for 20 years and quit a million times?.pure torture. It's now been 19 years, 13 days, 13 hours and 47 minutes since my last cigarette and it amazes me that I still want want every once in a while. BTW SMOGZINN...gratz on 5 years!

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

How does the addictive nature of nicotine have anything to do with the choice aspect of this issue? That sounds more like a willpower and priority issue to me rather than a choice issue. Completely different.

You say you smoke. How often have you tried to quit?
I've been smoke free for 5 years, and I stuggle with it every day.
I've had long talks with my father, who has been smoke free for 20 years, and he struggles with it. There is only so much willpower in a person, not everyone can just quit.

to each his own, i smoked for a decade before quitting cold turkey almost four years ago and i never struggle with it, not even when drunk. nicotine is about as physically addictive as caffeine or chocolate.

as for HR2 - :thumbsup:

And this is what I am talking about, some like you can quit easy, others like me stuggle, and others still find it actually impossible, yet people want to say it is a choice and heap taxes on them while telling themselves that if they didn't want to pay the tax they could just quit.

i agree that the experience of quitting is different for everyone however i believe that it is mental and not physical. i also accept responsibility for making the choice to smoke in the first place.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: Genx87
The only question I have is when they finally run smokers underground and out of town who will these prohibitionists target next?

I am going to guess

1. Drinkers
2. Fast Food eaters
3. Fat people

Not going to happen because:

1. Alcohol use is deemed to be healthy in moderation.
2. Not all fast food is unhealthy. Some health care officials now say many so-called "healthy" wheat and cereal products are worse.
3. No. They sould tax those things that we know cause people to be fat like soft drinks, sugar, and things very high in sugar.

Tax High Fructose Corn Syrup, that way almost every food product in the grocery store would shoot up in price.

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

How does the addictive nature of nicotine have anything to do with the choice aspect of this issue? That sounds more like a willpower and priority issue to me rather than a choice issue. Completely different.

You say you smoke. How often have you tried to quit?
I've been smoke free for 5 years, and I stuggle with it every day.
I've had long talks with my father, who has been smoke free for 20 years, and he struggles with it. There is only so much willpower in a person, not everyone can just quit.

to each his own, i smoked for a decade before quitting cold turkey almost four years ago and i never struggle with it, not even when drunk. nicotine is about as physically addictive as caffeine or chocolate.

as for HR2 - :thumbsup:

For you that may be true...but everyones different and a little tolerance and compassion for those people who are not as strong as you might be a good thing...just a thought.

I smoked for 20 years and quit a million times?.pure torture. It's now been 19 years, 13 days, 13 hours and 47 minutes since my last cigarette and it amazes me that I still want want every once in a while. BTW SMOGZINN...gratz on 5 years!

i have compassion for people who are seriously addicted to hard drugs that are life threatening when you quit, but not cigarettes.

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: Genx87
The only question I have is when they finally run smokers underground and out of town who will these prohibitionists target next?

I am going to guess

1. Drinkers
2. Fast Food eaters
3. Fat people

Not going to happen because:

1. Alcohol use is deemed to be healthy in moderation.
2. Not all fast food is unhealthy. Some health care officials now say many so-called "healthy" wheat and cereal products are worse.
3. No. They sould tax those things that we know cause people to be fat like soft drinks, sugar, and things very high in sugar.

Tax High Fructose Corn Syrup, that way almost every food product in the grocery store would shoot up in price.

LOL, true. I've studied this subject extensively, and have come to the conclusion that just about everything in our modern commercial grocery stores is unhealthy.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
One of the other chilling aspects of all this is that they know that they can up the costs of cigarettes by $.60 a pack and it will not significantly reduce the number of people buying those packs, even when most of them are too comfortably afford it in the first place.
It points to smoking being less of a choice then most want to accept.

How does the addictive nature of nicotine have anything to do with the choice aspect of this issue? That sounds more like a willpower and priority issue to me rather than a choice issue. Completely different.

You say you smoke. How often have you tried to quit?
I've been smoke free for 5 years, and I stuggle with it every day.
I've had long talks with my father, who has been smoke free for 20 years, and he struggles with it. There is only so much willpower in a person, not everyone can just quit.

Yes, and it was ridiculously simple. All I had to do was refuse to buy them. I realize not everyone has it that easy, but it is not like there is a gun being pointed at your head either.

The choice doesn't change at all. It is as simple as A or B. Nicotine or a tax increase. Assuming you are a pack a day smoker, that increase will cost you an additional $365 a year or approximately $30/mo or $7/week more than what you pay now to smoke. That isn't exactly a life altering situation for the vast majority of Americans and if you happen to be one of the Americans where it really makes that much of a difference then you are either living beyond your means or you make such little money that you shouldn't be wasting it on smokes in the first place.

Of all the tax increases this country and our states impose on us regularly, I would say that this one is anything but a big deal in comparison. Again, I will be paying it too.