Obama Ready To Ctrl+Z Bush's White House Policies

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XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Obama will easily get reelected IMHO. I've seen enough, sometimes you just know from your gut that something great is about to happen. I truly believe this country is on the right track after so many years of being stuck in the wilderness. The Republicans damn near destroyed the fabric of this nation, I would hope Bush and his administration are tried for their war crimes and lies.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of Obama. I believe that he will lead us into a massive depression. I believe that his policies will cause massive hardships for people and we will lose lots of freedoms in the process. He will blame most of this on Bush but will say that larger government is the answer. I believe that taxes will be raised for everyone on a level never before seen to pay for his massive promises.

Again, I respect your belief, but realize that not everyone shares your optimism. I do hope that you are right though.
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
81
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Awesome! I don't see a single thing on that list that I disagree with.

:thumbsup:

So you think that despite the fact that the US auto industry is circling the bankrupcy drain right now, they should have to increase the gas milage in their vehicles substantially in the next few years? Keep in mind that the gov't estimates that if GM goes down, over 2 million jobs will be lost in the US.

Just to be clear, you support adding additional VERY COSTLY regulations to an industry that is about to go bankrupt and over 2 millions jobs would be lost if that happens.
I'm sure Obama will give them as much money as is necessary to stay afloat and achieve those goals. He's made it very clear how important the domestic auto industry is for our economy.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Excellent news!

:thumbsup:

There's a lot of damage to reverse from that shit-stain of a president we've had to endure for the past 8 years.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Duwelon
Guess what will happen when Republicans voice their opposition? The Dems will probably flood the media with reports of the right being "devisive!"

If only the Republicans will go along with getting raped without lube, in the name of unity!
That's called separation of power. The American people elected a Democrat to the White House so he could enact his agenda.

Republicans can voice their opposition in Congress with something called a "vote".

Remember the MANDATE we heard so much about a few years back? Wonders why I am not hearing the republicans toss that word around now like they did back then?
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Obama will easily get reelected IMHO. I've seen enough, sometimes you just know from your gut that something great is about to happen. I truly believe this country is on the right track after so many years of being stuck in the wilderness. The Republicans damn near destroyed the fabric of this nation, I would hope Bush and his administration are tried for their war crimes and lies.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of Obama. I believe that he will lead us into a massive depression. I believe that his policies will cause massive hardships for people and we will lose lots of freedoms in the process. He will blame most of this on Bush but will say that larger government is the answer. I believe that taxes will be raised for everyone on a level never before seen to pay for his massive promises.

Again, I respect your belief, but realize that not everyone shares your optimism. I do hope that you are right though.

Nobody gives a shit what you think. You voted for Bush twice and then again for McCain. You're a fucking moron. I could care less what you think about my opinions because you have flat out been wrong time and time again.

 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Awesome! I don't see a single thing on that list that I disagree with.

:thumbsup:

So you think that despite the fact that the US auto industry is circling the bankrupcy drain right now, they should have to increase the gas milage in their vehicles substantially in the next few years? Keep in mind that the gov't estimates that if GM goes down, over 2 million jobs will be lost in the US.

Just to be clear, you support adding additional VERY COSTLY regulations to an industry that is about to go bankrupt and over 2 millions jobs would be lost if that happens.

Actually, yes. I'd go out on a limb and say that is exactly what needs to happen, not just for environmental or national security (read: oil supply) reasons, but for the long-term viability of the US auto industry. If they had kept up innovation and increased fuel economy continually after the original oil crisis of the 70s/80s, would they be in the same position as they are now? No. If anything, they would be in a much better position now as they would have better cars that would've stemmed the tide of the imports who were light-years ahead on fuel economy at the time. (As of now, GM/Ford are making damn good cars)

I doubt Congress or President Obama will allow GM/Ford to fail. These regulations are necessary imho because we haven't seen the last of the oil shortages/price-gouging/etc. If this legislation isn't enacted, they might not survive the next one.
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Obama will easily get reelected IMHO. I've seen enough, sometimes you just know from your gut that something great is about to happen. I truly believe this country is on the right track after so many years of being stuck in the wilderness. The Republicans damn near destroyed the fabric of this nation, I would hope Bush and his administration are tried for their war crimes and lies.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of Obama. I believe that he will lead us into a massive depression. I believe that his policies will cause massive hardships for people and we will lose lots of freedoms in the process. He will blame most of this on Bush but will say that larger government is the answer. I believe that taxes will be raised for everyone on a level never before seen to pay for his massive promises.

Again, I respect your belief, but realize that not everyone shares your optimism. I do hope that you are right though.

Nobody gives a shit what you think. You voted for Bush twice and then again for McCain. You're a fucking moron. I could care less what you think about my opinions because you have flat out been wrong time and time again.

How are you not banned yet? How is your speculation any better than his? Pull your head out of your ass and stopped being an arrogant ass.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: nkgreen
How are you not banned yet? How is your speculation any better than his? Pull your head out of your ass and stopped being an arrogant ass.

I don't know, I think I may agree with him. Bush and his GOP allies in Congress have proven that they're the party of bad ideas indeed. Frankly, I'd have a hard time pointing to any of Bush's policies or any of the GOP-controlled Congress's decisions that actually did our country any good. Can you?
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: nkgreen
How are you not banned yet? How is your speculation any better than his? Pull your head out of your ass and stopped being an arrogant ass.

I don't know, I think I may agree with him. Bush and his GOP allies in Congress have proven that they're the party of bad ideas indeed. Frankly, I'd have a hard time pointing to any of Bush's policies or any of the GOP-controlled Congress's decisions that actually did our country any good. Can you?

Of course I can't. Bush is an absolutely horrible president, but you don't have to be a wise and beautiful woman when someone "Respectfully disagrees" with your opinion. Obama isn't even in office yet and people are already speculating that he'll get reelected. You would at least think people would wait until he actually does something IN office.
 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: shira
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: techs
What is fascinating is that Obama's team has been hard at work planning on running the country from day one.
And McCain barely had a transition team meeting. Even when he was ahead in the polls.
Apparently Bill Clinton was on day 5 when he named his cabinet. I don't know where Bush was. Obama certainly seems to be at work, I guess putting all the ducks in a row. Perhaps his first few hours will be spent simply signing the documents he now will have the authority to sign.

Bush had less time to prepare since Gore was trying to steal the election.

In any case, pwnage not found, unless you believe that Bush did the same pwnage to Clinton.
The Bush Administration wasn't capable of pwning anybody, least of all Clinton. In case you still haven't noticed, Bush and his Christian-right ideologues are imbeciles.

Tell that to John Kerry. :laugh:
 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: Thump553
It's not over yet by a long shot. Despite his public statements that the Bush Adminstration will cooperate fully with the transition, I heard a news report that Bush is trying to rush through some 70 changes to federal regulations before the end of his term. As these are changes to fed regs, it requires essentially going through the whole regulatory process agin (with appeal rights, etc) to change them back.

Hopefully these get tied up in court so that they don't become final before Inaguration Day.

Guess you missed Carter and Clinton doing the exact same thing, including their statements to 'fully cooperate' with the transition.

 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
Originally posted by: Thump553
It's not over yet by a long shot. Despite his public statements that the Bush Adminstration will cooperate fully with the transition, I heard a news report that Bush is trying to rush through some 70 changes to federal regulations before the end of his term. As these are changes to fed regs, it requires essentially going through the whole regulatory process agin (with appeal rights, etc) to change them back.

Hopefully these get tied up in court so that they don't become final before Inaguration Day.

All presidents do it before they leave but Bush is taking this to new levels.

So Little Time, So Much Damage


While Americans eagerly vote for the next president, here?s a sobering reminder: As of Tuesday, George W. Bush still has 77 days left in the White House ? and he?s not wasting a minute.

President Bush?s aides have been scrambling to change rules and regulations on the environment, civil liberties and abortion rights, among others ? few for the good. Most presidents put on a last-minute policy stamp, but in Mr. Bush?s case it is more like a wrecking ball. We fear it could take months, or years, for the next president to identify and then undo all of the damage.

Here is a look ? by no means comprehensive ? at some of Mr. Bush?s recent parting gifts and those we fear are yet to come.

CIVIL LIBERTIES We don?t know all of the ways that the administration has violated Americans? rights in the name of fighting terrorism. Last month, Attorney General Michael Mukasey rushed out new guidelines for the F.B.I. that permit agents to use chillingly intrusive techniques to collect information on Americans even where there is no evidence of wrongdoing.

Agents will be allowed to use informants to infiltrate lawful groups, engage in prolonged physical surveillance and lie about their identity while questioning a subject?s neighbors, relatives, co-workers and friends. The changes also give the F.B.I. ? which has a long history of spying on civil rights groups and others ? expanded latitude to use these techniques on people identified by racial, ethnic and religious background.

The administration showed further disdain for Americans? privacy rights and for Congress?s power by making clear that it will ignore a provision in the legislation that established the Department of Homeland Security. The law requires the department?s privacy officer to account annually for any activity that could affect Americans? privacy ? and clearly stipulates that the report cannot be edited by any other officials at the department or the White House.

The Justice Department?s Office of Legal Counsel has now released a memo asserting that the law ?does not prohibit? officials from homeland security or the White House from reviewing the report. The memo then argues that since the law allows the officials to review the report, it would be unconstitutional to stop them from changing it. George Orwell couldn?t have done better.

THE ENVIRONMENT The administration has been especially busy weakening regulations that promote clean air and clean water and protect endangered species.

Mr. Bush, or more to the point, Vice President Dick Cheney, came to office determined to dismantle Bill Clinton?s environmental legacy, undo decades of environmental law and keep their friends in industry happy. They have had less success than we feared, but only because of the determined opposition of environmental groups, courageous members of Congress and protests from citizens. But the White House keeps trying.

Mr. Bush?s secretary of the interior, Dirk Kempthorne, has recently carved out significant exceptions to regulations requiring expert scientific review of any federal project that might harm endangered or threatened species (one consequence will be to relieve the agency of the need to assess the impact of global warming on at-risk species). The department also is rushing to remove the gray wolf from the endangered species list ? again. The wolves were re-listed after a federal judge ruled the government had not lived up to its own recovery plan.

In coming weeks, we expect the Environmental Protection Agency to issue a final rule that would weaken a program created by the Clean Air Act, which requires utilities to install modern pollution controls when they upgrade their plants to produce more power. The agency is also expected to issue a final rule that would make it easier for coal-fired power plants to locate near national parks in defiance of longstanding Congressional mandates to protect air quality in areas of special natural or recreational value.

Interior also is awaiting E.P.A.?s concurrence on a proposal that would make it easier for mining companies to dump toxic mine wastes in valleys and streams.

And while no rules changes are at issue, the interior department also has been rushing to open up millions of acres of pristine federal land to oil and gas exploration. We fear that, in coming weeks, Mr. Kempthorne will open up even more acreage to the commercial development of oil shale, a hugely expensive and environmentally risky process that even the oil companies seem in no hurry to begin. He should not.

ABORTION RIGHTS Soon after the election, Michael Leavitt, the secretary of health and human services, is expected to issue new regulations aimed at further limiting women?s access to abortion, contraceptives and information about their reproductive health care options.

Existing law allows doctors and nurses to refuse to participate in an abortion. These changes would extend the so-called right to refuse to a wide range of health care workers and activities including abortion referrals, unbiased counseling and provision of birth control pills or emergency contraception, even for rape victims.

The administration has taken other disturbing steps in recent weeks. In late September, the I.R.S. restored tax breaks for banks that take big losses on bad loans inherited through acquisitions. Now we learn that JPMorgan Chase and others are planning to use their bailout funds for mergers and acquisitions, transactions that will be greatly enhanced by the new tax subsidy.

One last-minute change Mr. Bush won?t be making: He apparently has decided not to shut down the prison in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba ? the most shameful symbol of his administration?s disdain for the rule of law.

Mr. Bush has said it should be closed, and his secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, and his secretary of defense, Robert Gates, pushed for it. Proposals were prepared, including a plan for sending the real bad guys to other countries for trial. But Mr. Cheney objected, and the president has refused even to review the memos. He will hand this mess off to his successor.

We suppose there is some good news in all of this. While Mr. Bush leaves office on Jan. 20, 2009, he has only until Nov. 20 to issue ?economically significant? rule changes and until Dec. 20 to issue other changes. Anything after that is merely a draft and can be easily withdrawn by the next president.

Unfortunately, the White House is well aware of those deadlines.

Error: New level not found.

Clinton pushed through 30,000 pages of garbage between Dec 2000 and January 2001. Thankfully, most of it hadn't been implemented yet, and on Jan. 20, 2001, was wiped away.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Duwelon
Guess what will happen when Republicans voice their opposition? The Dems will probably flood the media with reports of the right being "devisive!"

If only the Republicans will go along with getting raped without lube, in the name of unity!

The republicans *are* divisive. They are far out alone in the lead as the party most willing to screw the country for political points in trying to prevent the Democrats from getting anything done that might be useful to help them get elected the next term. The honest Republican strategists will even tell you that programs as big as Social Security and Medicare are Republican top priorities to privatize/dismantle not only for reasons of ideology and profiteering, but because they are helpful to the Democrats politically.

Under Clnton, the Repupublicans pulled stunts such as demanding Clinton give them *in advance, in writing* notice of any planned recess appointmens - something the constitution does not require - or they'd block all his nominees - it was blackmail. He had to comply. (Of course when Bush became president, the requirement ended and Clinton's few recess appointments needing justification turned into a routine way for Bush to get around Congressional oversight, like John Bolton). The Republicans changed themany-decades rule that both Senators from a state opposing a judicial nominee could block the appointment, to only one Senator, to allow states with only one Republican to block Clinont's nominees - something they did at record rates - all the while attacking the Democrats for being the ones who are the worst nominess blockers (a lie).

This last Congress, finally in the minority, Republicans in the Senate blocked more bills - mainly from the House - than ever before in history. Breaking the previous record set by - guess who - the Republicans the last time they were in a similar situation - and then they attack the Demcorats for not getting a lot passed. That was their dishonest, country-harming political strategy - block, and attack for it not getting passed, to deny the Democrats any passed programs to run on.

So, Duwelon, you are here spreading ignorant lies.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We've gone from an absolute dolt to a stupendous statesman. I think Bush deserves some credit for that.

He deserves about as much credit as a murderer who shoots at an innocent victim, kills them, but the bullet continues and kills another murderer.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Obama will easily get reelected IMHO. I've seen enough, sometimes you just know from your gut that something great is about to happen. I truly believe this country is on the right track after so many years of being stuck in the wilderness. The Republicans damn near destroyed the fabric of this nation, I would hope Bush and his administration are tried for their war crimes and lies.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of Obama. I believe that he will lead us into a massive depression. I believe that his policies will cause massive hardships for people and we will lose lots of freedoms in the process. He will blame most of this on Bush but will say that larger government is the answer. I believe that taxes will be raised for everyone on a level never before seen to pay for his massive promises.

Again, I respect your belief, but realize that not everyone shares your optimism. I do hope that you are right though.

Gotta love the doom and gloom predictions from the Right. We don't even know what Obama's policies will be, for sure, but they'll obviously be a disaster, right?

As compared to what? The policies that put us in this situation? The need for ~$1T in bailouts for the deregulated financial industry? The collapse of the deceptive "ownership society" based on absurd real estate prices and creative financing scams? Record balance of trade deficits, federal deficits, state deficits, institutional debt and private debt?

What planet have you been living on?

Think of our current economic malaise as a hangover- a really, really bad one. We wouldn't be so sick if we hadn't listened to our repub friends, deregulated our consumption of debt and tequila...

Think of the cash infusions to the financial industry as hair of the dog- you won't feel quite as bad, but it'll actually take longer to fully recover...
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: winnar111

Clinton pushed through 30,000 pages of good regulations for the benefit of the nation between Dec 2000 and January 2001. Sadly, most of it hadn't been implemented yet, and on Jan. 20, 2001, was wiped away by the Bush administration who had both the petty political desire to reverse aything Clinton, and the harmful agenda not to want the good regulations in place.

Fixed.
 

Duwelon

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,058
0
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Duwelon
Guess what will happen when Republicans voice their opposition? The Dems will probably flood the media with reports of the right being "devisive!"

If only the Republicans will go along with getting raped without lube, in the name of unity!

So, Duwelon, you are here spreading ignorant lies.

Which of my words are lies exactly? PS, using their God given elected powers to prevent legislation that they deem harmful to the AMerican people doesn't mean they're automatically evil and devisive. We know YOU think they did it screw the USA over, but that logic doesn't fly with anyone with an IQ over 80 because it's nothing but your own opinion. It's politics, it's 2 elected groups fighting for the interests of their constituents.

So my point stands, the Dems will probably bitch and moan and call the Republicans devisive when all they're doing is trying to keep back the flood gates of a socialist state and lamebrain ideas that solve nothing but give more power to the government.
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
Originally posted by: Thump553
It's not over yet by a long shot. Despite his public statements that the Bush Adminstration will cooperate fully with the transition, I heard a news report that Bush is trying to rush through some 70 changes to federal regulations before the end of his term. As these are changes to fed regs, it requires essentially going through the whole regulatory process agin (with appeal rights, etc) to change them back.

Hopefully these get tied up in court so that they don't become final before Inaguration Day.

All presidents do it before they leave but Bush is taking this to new levels.

So Little Time, So Much Damage


While Americans eagerly vote for the next president, here?s a sobering reminder: As of Tuesday, George W. Bush still has 77 days left in the White House ? and he?s not wasting a minute.

President Bush?s aides have been scrambling to change rules and regulations on the environment, civil liberties and abortion rights, among others ? few for the good. Most presidents put on a last-minute policy stamp, but in Mr. Bush?s case it is more like a wrecking ball. We fear it could take months, or years, for the next president to identify and then undo all of the damage.

Here is a look ? by no means comprehensive ? at some of Mr. Bush?s recent parting gifts and those we fear are yet to come.

CIVIL LIBERTIES We don?t know all of the ways that the administration has violated Americans? rights in the name of fighting terrorism. Last month, Attorney General Michael Mukasey rushed out new guidelines for the F.B.I. that permit agents to use chillingly intrusive techniques to collect information on Americans even where there is no evidence of wrongdoing.

Agents will be allowed to use informants to infiltrate lawful groups, engage in prolonged physical surveillance and lie about their identity while questioning a subject?s neighbors, relatives, co-workers and friends. The changes also give the F.B.I. ? which has a long history of spying on civil rights groups and others ? expanded latitude to use these techniques on people identified by racial, ethnic and religious background.

The administration showed further disdain for Americans? privacy rights and for Congress?s power by making clear that it will ignore a provision in the legislation that established the Department of Homeland Security. The law requires the department?s privacy officer to account annually for any activity that could affect Americans? privacy ? and clearly stipulates that the report cannot be edited by any other officials at the department or the White House.

The Justice Department?s Office of Legal Counsel has now released a memo asserting that the law ?does not prohibit? officials from homeland security or the White House from reviewing the report. The memo then argues that since the law allows the officials to review the report, it would be unconstitutional to stop them from changing it. George Orwell couldn?t have done better.

THE ENVIRONMENT The administration has been especially busy weakening regulations that promote clean air and clean water and protect endangered species.

Mr. Bush, or more to the point, Vice President Dick Cheney, came to office determined to dismantle Bill Clinton?s environmental legacy, undo decades of environmental law and keep their friends in industry happy. They have had less success than we feared, but only because of the determined opposition of environmental groups, courageous members of Congress and protests from citizens. But the White House keeps trying.

Mr. Bush?s secretary of the interior, Dirk Kempthorne, has recently carved out significant exceptions to regulations requiring expert scientific review of any federal project that might harm endangered or threatened species (one consequence will be to relieve the agency of the need to assess the impact of global warming on at-risk species). The department also is rushing to remove the gray wolf from the endangered species list ? again. The wolves were re-listed after a federal judge ruled the government had not lived up to its own recovery plan.

In coming weeks, we expect the Environmental Protection Agency to issue a final rule that would weaken a program created by the Clean Air Act, which requires utilities to install modern pollution controls when they upgrade their plants to produce more power. The agency is also expected to issue a final rule that would make it easier for coal-fired power plants to locate near national parks in defiance of longstanding Congressional mandates to protect air quality in areas of special natural or recreational value.

Interior also is awaiting E.P.A.?s concurrence on a proposal that would make it easier for mining companies to dump toxic mine wastes in valleys and streams.

And while no rules changes are at issue, the interior department also has been rushing to open up millions of acres of pristine federal land to oil and gas exploration. We fear that, in coming weeks, Mr. Kempthorne will open up even more acreage to the commercial development of oil shale, a hugely expensive and environmentally risky process that even the oil companies seem in no hurry to begin. He should not.

ABORTION RIGHTS Soon after the election, Michael Leavitt, the secretary of health and human services, is expected to issue new regulations aimed at further limiting women?s access to abortion, contraceptives and information about their reproductive health care options.

Existing law allows doctors and nurses to refuse to participate in an abortion. These changes would extend the so-called right to refuse to a wide range of health care workers and activities including abortion referrals, unbiased counseling and provision of birth control pills or emergency contraception, even for rape victims.

The administration has taken other disturbing steps in recent weeks. In late September, the I.R.S. restored tax breaks for banks that take big losses on bad loans inherited through acquisitions. Now we learn that JPMorgan Chase and others are planning to use their bailout funds for mergers and acquisitions, transactions that will be greatly enhanced by the new tax subsidy.

One last-minute change Mr. Bush won?t be making: He apparently has decided not to shut down the prison in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba ? the most shameful symbol of his administration?s disdain for the rule of law.

Mr. Bush has said it should be closed, and his secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, and his secretary of defense, Robert Gates, pushed for it. Proposals were prepared, including a plan for sending the real bad guys to other countries for trial. But Mr. Cheney objected, and the president has refused even to review the memos. He will hand this mess off to his successor.

We suppose there is some good news in all of this. While Mr. Bush leaves office on Jan. 20, 2009, he has only until Nov. 20 to issue ?economically significant? rule changes and until Dec. 20 to issue other changes. Anything after that is merely a draft and can be easily withdrawn by the next president.

Unfortunately, the White House is well aware of those deadlines.

Any republican that agrees with Bush's Civil Liberties changes is NOT a republican, they are a fascist authoritarian. The sad thing is this is this is exactly the things they worry about Obama doing... yet ignore Bush doing the same thing. Pathetic.
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Awesome! I don't see a single thing on that list that I disagree with.

:thumbsup:

So you think that despite the fact that the US auto industry is circling the bankrupcy drain right now, they should have to increase the gas milage in their vehicles substantially in the next few years? Keep in mind that the gov't estimates that if GM goes down, over 2 million jobs will be lost in the US.

Just to be clear, you support adding additional VERY COSTLY regulations to an industry that is about to go bankrupt and over 2 millions jobs would be lost if that happens.

Actually, yes. I'd go out on a limb and say that is exactly what needs to happen, not just for environmental or national security (read: oil supply) reasons, but for the long-term viability of the US auto industry. If they had kept up innovation and increased fuel economy continually after the original oil crisis of the 70s/80s, would they be in the same position as they are now? No. If anything, they would be in a much better position now as they would have better cars that would've stemmed the tide of the imports who were light-years ahead on fuel economy at the time. (As of now, GM/Ford are making damn good cars)

I doubt Congress or President Obama will allow GM/Ford to fail. These regulations are necessary imho because we haven't seen the last of the oil shortages/price-gouging/etc. If this legislation isn't enacted, they might not survive the next one.

Agreed. If they would have invested their money into developing and research instead of pissing it away the US auto industry would actually be competitive.
 

Duwelon

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,058
0
0
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Awesome! I don't see a single thing on that list that I disagree with.

:thumbsup:

So you think that despite the fact that the US auto industry is circling the bankrupcy drain right now, they should have to increase the gas milage in their vehicles substantially in the next few years? Keep in mind that the gov't estimates that if GM goes down, over 2 million jobs will be lost in the US.

Just to be clear, you support adding additional VERY COSTLY regulations to an industry that is about to go bankrupt and over 2 millions jobs would be lost if that happens.

Actually, yes. I'd go out on a limb and say that is exactly what needs to happen, not just for environmental or national security (read: oil supply) reasons, but for the long-term viability of the US auto industry. If they had kept up innovation and increased fuel economy continually after the original oil crisis of the 70s/80s, would they be in the same position as they are now? No. If anything, they would be in a much better position now as they would have better cars that would've stemmed the tide of the imports who were light-years ahead on fuel economy at the time. (As of now, GM/Ford are making damn good cars)

I doubt Congress or President Obama will allow GM/Ford to fail. These regulations are necessary imho because we haven't seen the last of the oil shortages/price-gouging/etc. If this legislation isn't enacted, they might not survive the next one.

Agreed. If they would have invested their money into developing and research instead of pissing it away the US auto industry would actually be competitive.

If unions were dissolved, they would be ok too. THe unions served their purpose and are now causing much more harm than good. Companies like Ford and GM who have to pay out the rear end for their unionized workforce is getting screwed not just by the economy but by the unions. Toyota and other manufacturers that don't have unionized labor don't need slave drivers to produce cars and they're doing much better than GM/Ford because they only have the economy to worry about right now.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Obama will easily get reelected IMHO. I've seen enough, sometimes you just know from your gut that something great is about to happen. I truly believe this country is on the right track after so many years of being stuck in the wilderness. The Republicans damn near destroyed the fabric of this nation, I would hope Bush and his administration are tried for their war crimes and lies.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of Obama. I believe that he will lead us into a massive depression. I believe that his policies will cause massive hardships for people and we will lose lots of freedoms in the process. He will blame most of this on Bush but will say that larger government is the answer. I believe that taxes will be raised for everyone on a level never before seen to pay for his massive promises.

Again, I respect your belief, but realize that not everyone shares your optimism. I do hope that you are right though.

Nobody gives a shit what you think. You voted for Bush twice and then again for McCain. You're a fucking moron. I could care less what you think about my opinions because you have flat out been wrong time and time again.

Typical ignorant democrat response. I try to have a rational discussion and you resort to name calling and hate mongering. Have a nice day...or are you going to get upset at me for that too?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Obama will easily get reelected IMHO. I've seen enough, sometimes you just know from your gut that something great is about to happen. I truly believe this country is on the right track after so many years of being stuck in the wilderness. The Republicans damn near destroyed the fabric of this nation, I would hope Bush and his administration are tried for their war crimes and lies.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of Obama. I believe that he will lead us into a massive depression. I believe that his policies will cause massive hardships for people and we will lose lots of freedoms in the process. He will blame most of this on Bush but will say that larger government is the answer. I believe that taxes will be raised for everyone on a level never before seen to pay for his massive promises.

Again, I respect your belief, but realize that not everyone shares your optimism. I do hope that you are right though.

Nobody gives a shit what you think. You voted for Bush twice and then again for McCain. You're a fucking moron. I could care less what you think about my opinions because you have flat out been wrong time and time again.
Agreed. It's hard to have a discussion with people who vote for a third Bush term as the solution to our national crisis.

No amount of reason can change the mind of someone that stupid. That's something I've had to make peace with.

Take comfort in the fact that they got their asses handed to them in the election, and all they can do for the next 8 years is bitch and complain about taxes.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Obama will easily get reelected IMHO. I've seen enough, sometimes you just know from your gut that something great is about to happen. I truly believe this country is on the right track after so many years of being stuck in the wilderness. The Republicans damn near destroyed the fabric of this nation, I would hope Bush and his administration are tried for their war crimes and lies.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of Obama. I believe that he will lead us into a massive depression. I believe that his policies will cause massive hardships for people and we will lose lots of freedoms in the process. He will blame most of this on Bush but will say that larger government is the answer. I believe that taxes will be raised for everyone on a level never before seen to pay for his massive promises.

Again, I respect your belief, but realize that not everyone shares your optimism. I do hope that you are right though.

Nobody gives a shit what you think. You voted for Bush twice and then again for McCain. You're a fucking moron. I could care less what you think about my opinions because you have flat out been wrong time and time again.
Agreed. It's hard to have a discussion with people who vote for a third Bush term as the solution to our national crisis.

No amount of reason can change the mind of someone that stupid. That's something I've had to make peace with.

Take comfort in the fact that they got their asses handed to them in the election, and all they can do for the next 8 years is bitch and complain about taxes.

Again, hate-mongering by ignorant democrats. You are now proving what republicans have been saying for years.
BTW, I am NOT a republican.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Reversing the stem cell research stuff is a good idea and one I agree with.