Obama Pushes Racist College Admissions Policies

[Harvey]

Obama Pushes Racist Collage Admissions Policies

Is that your lame excuse for for being reading challenged, or are you just totally intellectually dishonest by posting only the first paragraph out of context? Here's the second paragraph:

The Texas case tests a 2003 Supreme Court decision that upheld a race-conscious admissions system at the University of Michigan Law School. That ruling in Grutter v. Bollinger said the law school had "a compelling interest in attaining a diverse student body." By a 5-4 vote, the court prohibited "outright racial balancing," but said race could be a "plus" factor to build a "critical mass" of minority students.

There's more to the article. It was a close decision (5-4), and there are reasonable arguments on both sides, but to characterize Obama as racist for his position is absurd and probably racist on your part.

I hope that, some day, we will grow beyond even having to consider whether we need to "level" any perceived unfair "playing fields" as a means to rectify past wrongs. Sadly, there are enough racists, including members of this forum, to know that day is not here, yet.

 

[GTaudiophile]

And guess who now controls student loans?

If you're parents are registered Republicans, my guess is the government will reject your student loan application.

 

[theevilsharpie]

And guess who now controls student loans?

If you're parents are registered Republicans, my guess is the government will reject your student loan application.

Drugs are bad... mmm'kay? :awe:

 

[Harvey]

And guess who now controls student loans?

If you're parents are registered Republicans, my guess is the government will reject your student loan application.

Bad guess. That would be illegal. You must be thinking about the Bushwhacko administration of crooks, liars and murderers and torturers.

Either support your absurd assumption or check Hot Deals for a special on a ouiji board that works.

 

[Patranus]

There's more to the article. It was a close decision (5-4), and there are reasonable arguments on both sides, but to characterize Obama as racist for his position is absurd and probably racist on your part.

Where did I claim that Obama was a racist?
I simply put that he is pushing a policy that IS by definition racist.

 

[Harvey]

Where did I claim that Obama was a racist?

I simply put that he is pushing a policy that IS by definition racist.

The title of your thread is:

Obama Pushes Racist College Admissions Policies Reply to Thread

Your OP quotes ONLY the first paragraph of the article which, in isolation and without the rest of the story, implies that the Obama administration is "pushing" (note the strongly active verb) an indiscriminate racist policy. That simply is not the case. What they actually did was ask the court to uphold a 2003 Supreme Court decision, which, incidentally, occurred on the watch of your thankfully EX-Traitor In Chief.

How was that NOT implying Obama is a racist?

Then, you concluded your OP with this blunderbus indictment that includes everyone having a "progressive" political viewpoint.

Yet another example of the "progressive" institutionalizing racism.

At best, your entire post is intellectually dishonest. At worst, it is, itself, blatantly racist. :thumbsdown:

If you truly did not intend your post to include any racist meaning or implication, try posting that as a declarative statement instead of trying to divert attention from it and weaseling around the issue with a lame rhetorical question. And while you're at it, you could include an apology for the obvious racist implications of what you actually posted.

If you can't manage that, you're a total fraud and a waste of everyone's time.

 

[nonlnear]

This seemed a little troll-tastic for you. I'm disappointed. :/

I did take a little too much liberty with the first point. It's a separate issue to be sure, but there is so much that is dysfunctional with American higher education, it's sometimes hard to know where to start.

1) Some schools do have large athletic focuses, some of those schools also have large athletic focuses. The best universities tend to focus more on academics though, I'm sure you'd know if you read up on them.

I happen to work at one of the better universities, and recently came form one of the "not so better" ones. Both had a large athletic focus. I'm not arguing that athletics necessarily degrades a school, but it creates an administration which is probably not as focused on the core mission as it should be.

2) That kind of process can deny better qualified students from admission into sought after programs freshmen year though, pushing them into either a subpar program or into a "waiting list" if you have those up there for many schools. This is not an efficient way to nurture the best and brightest.

Which kind of process do you mean? Setting benchmarks and accepting everybody who meets them? (I can't imagine that's what you meant.)

3) Right, so if a school isn't taking the best students they have a lower chance at highly successful alumni. Less successful alumni mean less successful donations, which mean lower amounts of funding.

Right, everything seems fine with that scenario to me. Schools do not have an inherent right to be successful.

Also, just in case you thought bagging on US Universities was valid, you can check out the global college ranking reports and see that the US outstrips any other nation for top universities. We have some problems in some areas and I address them with valid criticism (health care for example) but the quality of our higher education system is not one of them.

I know, I'm part of that system. IMHO it is largely coasting on momentum created after WWII. The US higher education system is crumbling. Not into dust, but from Everest into a slightly shorter pile of boulders. Enrollment is becoming the main push for administrations, while research is seen as primarily a marketing tool. That's not to say research is marginalized, but you don't hear legislators talking about the quality of research when going over education budgets. It's all about enrollment and access. They are losing the plot. Faculty themselves still prize research and in many places create wonderfully energetic environments that still produce great ideas. However as federal funding focuses more and more on access and (up front) affordability, the quality of American universities will continue to decline. You are going to see a few private schools that manage to keep large endowments attract more and more of the top drawer research faculty, and the rest of the profession is going to be left teaching high school to students who should have gotten a job... after high school.

 

[Deeko]

Affirmative Action is an abomination to equality and to a modern society.

Anyone that disagrees is wrong. 100%, completely wrong in every conceivable way. Don't bother arguing with me.

edit: for the record I didn't really read the article, but the thread turned into a discussion on affirmative action, to which I am commenting.

 

[xj0hnx]

Why does the Republican party have an admissions policy that gives preference to morons?

Don't deflect your support of racist policies.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So they have more in common with the Right Wingers than previously thought.

I wonder how many White and Asian kids miss out on a College education because of AA?

It depends. For medical school, quite a few.

Still, the problem isn't college. It's the fumb duck culture that educators have to deal with in K-12. It's not cool to be educated in far too many inner city settings.

What needs to happen is for that to be addressed and let it be known what is socially acceptable and what is not, and screw any other considerations.

We do not need more Obama's, affirmative actions, or fiddycents. We need more Bill Cosbys.

 

[Soltis]

It depends. For medical school, quite a few.

Still, the problem isn't college. It's the fumb duck culture that educators have to deal with in K-12. It's not cool to be educated in far too many inner city settings.

What needs to happen is for that to be addressed and let it be known what is socially acceptable and what is not, and screw any other considerations.

We do not need more Obama's, affirmative actions, or fiddycents. We need more Bill Cosby's.

Underlying truth?! we'll have no talk of any such thing on the internet! Now go wash your mouth with a bar of bullcrap please.

 

[bfdd]

The sooner our government stops looking at people as White, Black, Yellow, Brown, etc etc the quicker our population will.

^ did anyone even read what I said?

 

[jhbball]

Collage bump. OP is a fucking moron.

 

[piasabird]

States are free to do whatever they want in education unless they want the Federal funding or federal financial aide. This is how it works.

He who controls the money makes the rules.

It is a lot easier to cooperate with the federal dept of education if you want to be an accredited educational institution.

Federal judges tend to decide against giving preferential treatment to either minorities or other groups. I dont think minorities deserve any favoritism. The world is against everyone so forget the defeatest attitude and fight for your individual rights. Dont blame your failure as a human being on the color of your skin.

 

[brandonbull]

What I don't support is people bitching about racism instead of offering up solutions to include more people in educational institutions who have been historically excluded.

Stupid people have been historically excluded. So we should reduce admission standards to ensure the stupid people of the world can now be given a college degree?

Unprepared students should not be given entrance to universities because someone was historically excluded.

 

[nonlnear]

It depends. For medical school, quite a few.

Still, the problem isn't college. It's the fumb duck culture that educators have to deal with in K-12. It's not cool to be educated in far too many inner city settings.

What needs to happen is for that to be addressed and let it be known what is socially acceptable and what is not, and screw any other considerations.

We do not need more Obama's, affirmative actions, or fiddycents. We need more Bill Cosbys.

Exactly. It's even uncool to be smart in many suburban schools too, but not in nearly so destructive a way. There are a lot of disadvantaged groups that come to college with an academic handicap, and it really is sad. Many of them struggle and might be dismissed as dumb when they really aren't. It's just they haven't learned how to live in the kind of environment where learning is valued, encouraged, and expected. The place to address this is not at the college admission, it is about 15 years earlier.

Pushing for parity of outcomes at college admissions (or worse, at college graduation) by creating incentives in the college system can only accomplish the further destruction of the college system, while not really accomplishing anything of value for the students it "helps". It is laying carpet over a sinkhole. You can try to make it look good, but the more trust you put in it, the more likely it is that the whole thing is going to collapse and kill you.

 

[brandonbull]

I know, I'm part of that system. IMHO it is largely coasting on momentum created after WWII. The US higher education system is crumbling. Not into dust, but from Everest into a slightly shorter pile of boulders. Enrollment is becoming the main push for administrations, while research is seen as primarily a marketing tool. That's not to say research is marginalized, but you don't hear legislators talking about the quality of research when going over education budgets. It's all about enrollment and access. They are losing the plot. Faculty themselves still prize research and in many places create wonderfully energetic environments that still produce great ideas. However as federal funding focuses more and more on access and (up front) affordability, the quality of American universities will continue to decline. You are going to see a few private schools that manage to keep large endowments attract more and more of the top drawer research faculty, and the rest of the profession is going to be left teaching high school to students who should have gotten a job... after high school.

Then why do European Universities want to copy our crumbling higher education system? Maybe because their system is crumbling even more?

 

[nonlnear]

Then why do European Universities want to copy our crumbling higher education system? Maybe because their system is crumbling even more?

The influx of foreign students is slowing, and quite markedly at that. And yes, you are right: many of Europe's colleges have even worse systemic problems than the US. They are right to import some lessons from the US to correct them. But that is hardly a justification for the US to import mistakes!

For all my derision, I have a deep sense of admiration for what remains of the American higher education system. This is still the best place in the world to get an education or to have a great idea. However the system has been under attack by bureaucrats and lobbyists who would prefer to drown the system with government money in order to turn it into a political playground rather than a machine of innovation and excellence.

 

[werepossum]

There are community colleges serving inner cities as well, and their trends reflect other schools: whites and Asians have a disproportionately high rate of graduation/transfer compared to blacks and Latinos. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the story's the same for whites and Asians in those inner-city high schools.

Its the PEOPLE that make the schools suck. Not the government. You look at communities with immigrants from africa, india, and asia and you'll see they have good schools. Again, people are to blame.

I don't disagree that there are systemic factors in inner city black culture that are anti-education. Frankly I too doubt we can fix these schools (although the worst school can be turned around with one outstanding person if he or she is supported by the school system and the community.) All I'm saying is that even in the worst inner city schools there are SOME students and parents, including blacks, who do value education but are unable to get much of one in the available schools. Often these parents can't afford to move to a better district, especially in larger cities where rent can be insanely high. While I agree that we can't save those who don't want to be saved through government action, I think we can save some of the students who DO want to be saved. And I think it's a moral imperative to do so. And I think the better solution is to bring those students up to a college prep level instead of lowering standards for them, even though lowering standards is cheaper and "more inclusive".

 

[ShawnD1]

Still, the problem isn't college. It's the fumb duck culture that educators have to deal with in K-12. It's not cool to be educated in far too many inner city settings.

I can't speak for all poor people, but some of my close friends grew up somewhat poor and in slightly unstable homes (custody battles). I've never directly asked their opinion on education, but the feeling I get is that they never thought of education as being important, or at least not as important as other things going on at the time. My best friend jumped back and forth between living with his mom and living with his dad. There was a period when he ran away and lived with some friends. Neither of his parents are educated and neither of them stressed how important education is, so he never really had a chance. When there's a ton of serious stuff going on in your life, education goes to the bottom of your priorities.

I'm not ashamed to admit that quite a few of my friends are high school drop outs. Family instability is easily the strongest correlation I can see. One of my friends lived with his dad, then with his mom, then with his dad. He dropped out in grade 10. My best friend had basically the same childhood but he graduated with the bare minimum requirements for a diploma. He can't go to university unless he upgrades for several years. One of my friends was taken away from her parents and put into foster care for a couple years until she went back to live with her mother. This person dropped out in grade 10.

Most of my own extended family is very stable, and a very high percentage of us are educated. My brother and I are both college graduates. My dad was adopted into a loving family, and he has a degree. My mom lost her father to a car accident at an early age and was raised by just her mother; she barely graduated high school and does not have any post secondary training. One of my cousins has a degree in commerce and his brother has a doctorate in oral surgery; they're from an upper middle class family with 2 parents. One of my uncles had 4 kids, the mother bailed on the family, and only 1/4 of those kids has any post secondary training. I'm starting to see a pattern here.

http://family.jrank.org/pages/1574/Single-Parent-Families-Demographic-Trends.html

There is racial variation in the proportion of families headed by a single parent: 22 percent for white, 57 percent for black, and 33 percent for Hispanic families.

When black families are statistically the least stable, is it really a mystery why this group is under-represented?

 

[Jaskalas]

State schools should be free to have affirmative action. STATES' RIGHTS STATES' RIGHTS

All men should be treated equal, as a tenant to being allowed in the Union. Something like the Bill of Rights should not be elective.

 

[Red Dawn]

It depends. For medical school, quite a few.

Any stats to back that? From my own observations the vast majority of Doctors, especially here in New England, are either White or Asian (including Central Asian) It would seem to me that if anything there is a lack of diversity in the Medical Profession which doesn't bother me as we only need the best and brightest

 

[piasabird]

I live in the midwest near St Louis, MO, and I keep seeing more foreign students. This is true in the current School Year. People keep coming to the USA because of its free and open education system. It is in our interest to keep it free and open and keep the costs down. Maybe the problem on the East and West coast is that many universities are costing too much money and that is pushing foreign students to other educational institutions where the cost is lower, but the quality is still high.

 

[ericlp]

yeah... I know... the Minority pisses me off to no end. Why can't we just give free halthcare and free college across the board.