Obama Pushes Racist College Admissions Policies

[ProfJohn]

What I don't support is people bitching about racism instead of offering up solutions to include more people in educational institutions who have been historically excluded.

The students who are denied entrance into highly ranked schools because of poor grades and test scores have dozens of other schools that they can attend.

There are thousands and community colleges across this country that virtually anyone can attend.

If a student can't get into UT Austin they can always go to their local CC for 2 years, work real hard and get good grades and then apply to transfer to Austin as a Junior.

No one is denying these people the right to attend college. What we are denying them is the right to keep a more qualified white or asian student out of their school of choice simply because of their color or racial background.

 

[HomerJS]

The 18-22 year olds going to college today were ever denied the option to go to college based on their race. It's time to stop this racial nonsense. It's the 21st Century.

In the 21st century it's not as overt as saying I'm not letting you in because you're black.

It's financial, lower educational opportunities, family history, etc. If you ignore these your left with blacks are underrepresented because they are dumber and lazier then their white counterparts. If that's your belief, stick with it.

 

[ProfJohn]

Homer, do you think it is right to deny a better qualified white or Asian a chance to attend the college of their choice in order to send a less qualified minority in their place?

Yes/No?

 

[TruePaige]

What I don't support is people bitching about racism instead of offering up solutions to include more people in educational institutions who have been historically excluded.

They could get better grades and then race-blind admissions would ensure no discrimination.

You should be rewarded with admission based on your talent, not your race.

 

[ShawnD1]

In the 21st century it's not as overt as saying I'm not letting you in because you're black.

It's financial, lower educational opportunities, family history, etc. If you ignore these your left with blacks are underrepresented because they are dumber and lazier then their white counterparts. If that's your belief, stick with it.

If you wanted to help poor people get into college, I would support that, but that isn't what you said. You're saying you want special treatment only given to black poor people. If that's not racist, then I don't know what is.

 

[HomerJS]

The students who are denied entrance into highly ranked schools because of poor grades and test scores have dozens of other schools that they can attend.

There are thousands and community colleges across this country that virtually anyone can attend.

If a student can't get into UT Austin they can always go to their local CC for 2 years, work real hard and get good grades and then apply to transfer to Austin as a Junior.

No one is denying these people the right to attend college. What we are denying them is the right to keep a more qualified white or asian student out of their school of choice simply because of their color or racial background.

Too bad Yale doesn't follow your logic.

 

[HomerJS]

They could get better grades and then race-blind admissions would ensure no discrimination.

You should be rewarded with admission based on your talent, not your race.

Really? A few years ago the University of Chicago tried that experiment with applying for jobs. Blind resumes were send out with identical qualifications except the names on the applications indicated a race of white or black. Black applicant call back rates were 50% lower then whites.

 

[TruePaige]

Really? A few years ago the University of Chicago tried that experiment with applying for jobs. Blind resumes were send out with identical qualifications except the names on the applications indicated a race of white or black. Black applicant call back rates were 50% lower then whites.

Dude, you assign someone an alpha numeric identifier.

app-dl-3123 for example and show their stats. It's not rocket science.

 

[LumbergTech]

Homer, do you think it is right to deny a better qualified white or Asian a chance to attend the college of their choice in order to send a less qualified minority in their place?

Yes/No?

what are the stats on how often this happens? not just anecdotal evidence.

 

[HomerJS]

Homer, do you think it is right to deny a better qualified white or Asian a chance to attend the college of their choice in order to send a less qualified minority in their place?

Yes/No?

Here's what I do and don't favor.

SATs Malik 1100 Biff 1125. College admits Malik because of the underrepresentaion of Maliks, don't have a problem

Malik 1100 Biff 1100 College admits Biff because daddy donated a wing. I have a problem with this. That being said if you are going to get rid of one, get rid of both.

 

[HomerJS]

Dude, you assign someone an alpha numeric identifier.

app-dl-3123 for example and show their stats. It's not rocket science.

Its a pretty famous experiment. I'll let you do the work. It's an eye opener.

 

[ProfJohn]

Too bad Yale doesn't follow your logic.

Yale's legacy based admissions aren't racially motivated, UT Austin's are.

Yale gives the sons and daughters or previous Yale grads a second look or a slight leg up, but they don't give them extra points or allow them to replace better qualified candidates just because of their legacy status.


BTW President Bush himself has said that legacy based admissions is wrong, but Obama has no problem with race based admissions...

 

[TruePaige]

Its a pretty famous experiment. I'll let you do the work. It's an eye opener.

You are a fucking loon.

If the admissions group doesn't have access to anything but raw data they cannot see race.

Anyhow I know you are a fucking loon because above you said it was okay to admit "Malik" over "Biff" even though Malik did WORSE academically.

Way to keep the country competitive.

 

[HomerJS]

Yale's legacy based admissions aren't racially motivated, UT Austin's are.

Yale gives the sons and daughters or previous Yale grads a second look or a slight leg up, but they don't give them extra points or allow them to replace better qualified candidates just because of their legacy status.


BTW President Bush himself has said that legacy based admissions is wrong, but Obama has no problem with race based admissions...

Easy for Bush to say that now. If he thought it was wrong turn it down.

Also, I'm not advocating admitting someone solely based on race but if the scores are close giving extra consideration for diversity isn't a bad thing.

 

[Hacp]

Here's what I do and don't favor.

SATs Malik 1100 Biff 1125. College admits Malik because of the underrepresentaion of Maliks, don't have a problem

Yes, reward someone for doing worse. That will totally motivate them to study and work hard.D:

 

[ProfJohn]

what are the stats on how often this happens? not just anecdotal evidence.

All of the colleges in these types of lawsuits have a limited number of student spots.

When they they decide to give a lower qualified black or hispanic student a spot they are by default keeping a higher qualified student from attending that school.

Typically those higher qualified students turn out to be white or asian.

 

[ProfJohn]

Easy for Bush to say that now. If he thought it was wrong turn it down.

Also, I'm not advocating admitting someone solely based on race but if the scores are close giving extra consideration for diversity isn't a bad thing.

It is not a good thing either, especially if you deny a better qualified candidate a spot at that school solely based on race.

 

[ShawnD1]

Yes, reward someone for doing worse. That will totally motivate them to study and work hard.D:

Black students trying to get into college are not retarded. The issue is when a hard working black student has maybe a 78% average and gets into college instead of a hard working Asian student with an 80% average. While both would probably do very well in college, first priority should be given to the one that has the slightly higher average. Instead, priority is given based on race. That's what makes it racist.

 

[ProfJohn]

Read up on Texas' 10% law that gives the top 10% of students in each high school automatic admission to one of the states schools.

This is the main problem in a case like this. So many of the college's spots are taken by the 10%ers that other highly qualified candidates are left fighting for a limited number of spots.

Think of it this way:
A very well qualified student in the best high school in the state has a harder time getting into UT than a lower performing students who attends the states worst school.

Apparently this law has caused all kinds of problems. Students moving from good schools to poor school to improve their class ranking. Students taking easier classes to improve their class ranking etc etc. The law encourages students to focus on their class ranking instead of focusing on the quality of their education.

It also as a side effect resulted in this lawsuit.

 

[Soltis]

Easy for Bush to say that now. If he thought it was wrong turn it down.

Also, I'm not advocating admitting someone solely based on race but if the scores are close giving extra consideration for diversity isn't a bad thing.

While I understand there are good intentions from some, the problem with this type of thinking is that you're essentially creating a new breed of "pity-based" racism. If a black or hispanic or whatever race person gets into a school over his white or asian or whatever race person who scored higher, its like saying hes "handicapped" in that he needs special attention. And the same argument you made against Bush can be said against said minority person; if he wasn't really inferior or he thought it was wrong, why didn't he turn it down?

I'm all for correcting discrimination against minorities, but alot of the issues that minorities dealt with has been resolved with new law, or at least the ones people always seem to bring up for these arguments, so the question will remain; how much more special treatment is needed until all races are equal? 5 years worth? 10? 50? 100?

 

[HomerJS]

It is not a good thing either, especially if you deny a better qualified candidate a spot at that school solely based on race.

I never avocated admitted solely based on race.

How do you propose getting rid of college practices of granting extra points cause daddy donated money? Or is that just capitalism at work?

 

[Throckmorton]

Yale's legacy based admissions aren't racially motivated, UT Austin's are.

Yale gives the sons and daughters or previous Yale grads a second look or a slight leg up, but they don't give them extra points or allow them to replace better qualified candidates just because of their legacy status.


BTW President Bush himself has said that legacy based admissions is wrong, but Obama has no problem with race based admissions...

You can't give children of Yale grads a leg up WITHOUT allowing them to replace better qualified candidates.

 

[umbrella39]

\a cup of "gop" rage is all the rage these days.....

What we need is for all the pissed of white people who are tired of being held back by them uppity black people, to get together and form their own tea party or something. That's the ticket...

 

[TruePaige]

What we need is for all the pissed of white people who are tired of being held back by them uppity black people, to get together and form their own tea party or something. That's the ticket...

I THOUGHT everyone wanted equality? The ability to not be judged by the color of their skin? Freedom to go as far as their talents will take them?

 

[ShawnD1]

Read up on Texas' 10% law that gives the top 10% of students in each high school automatic admission to one of the states schools.

It almost feels like I shouldn't be posting in this thread since USA and Canada have radically different education systems. This sounds really really weird.

In Canada, getting into university is about 99% based on when you applied. My local university has a 70% required average between certain classes (math, physics, etc) to get into science, and what you do is apply using your grade 12 second semester marks from the first report card. Each semester has 2 report cards, so the first one comes out around the end of March I believe. You show them you have an 70% or greater average at this time, they let you in, and you pay a deposit so they hold your spot. I think I paid $40 to reserve my spot. Once you finish high school, you give the university an official transcript to verify that you passed and you still have the required 70% average. Once that's all done, you pay an extra registration fee to verify that you still want the spot and you will be attending. If you failed or your average dropped to only 65%, you lose your despot and your spot is open again. From this point, I think they actually start to look at the grades of the people applying. I don't really know since I've never been rejected at the first stage.

When I went back to school a second time, this time for engineering, I applied in November of the year before the year I was applying to. I was probably the first person to apply for it, so I got in right away. No questions asked, no essay required. I think the only race question on the application was my Indian treaty status. I'm not a native, so I get grouped with whites, blacks, Asians, hispanics, etc. Even with the special treatment for native Indians, electrical engineering has exactly 0 Indians. 😛

Overall this system seems to work. It doesn't even differentiate between honors students and marginally good students. All that matters is that you cared enough to apply as soon as possible.

edit: fixed some of the wording