Bitek
Lifer
That was you praising Obama?
Maybe that's what your mind was thinking, bit your fingers didn't seem to be listening.
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Obama praises payday lender rules, vows veto of limitations
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That was you praising Obama?
Maybe that's what your mind was thinking, bit your fingers didn't seem to be listening.
If you take away payday loans with incredibly high fees and interest, it will get rid of some financial options. For some people, even a short term loan with crazy fees is better than the alternative(s) available to them. What do those people do? For example, lets say I have $5k in credit card debt, I incurred some unexpected cost and don't have the money to make the required payment (remember, these are people on the fringe, not financially stable ones). If I miss the payment, my interest rate skyrockets, and I end up paying a LOT more on that debt. If I get a payday loan, I pay a ridiculous fee (lets say I get a $200 loan with a $100 fee), but it's still overall better than missing the payment on the credit card. Without the "predatory" lending, that person is essentially screwed.
Also, the fees might be crazy high, but the risks of lending money to people on the fringe are extremely high as well. Many won't (or can't) pay back, so you have to factor that in.
The real problem isn't just the predatory lending, the real problem is that there are so many people caught in such bad situations that they don't have good options, to the point where predatory lending / payday lending places are either their only options or their best option.
Also, the fees might be crazy high, but the risks of lending money to people on the fringe are extremely high as well. Many won't (or can't) pay back, so you have to factor that in.
The real problem isn't just the predatory lending, the real problem is that there are so many people caught in such bad situations that they don't have good options, to the point where predatory lending / payday lending places are either their only options or their best option.
sportage
Lifer
Well... Since the OP is obviously a republican, naturally he/she is not going to give Obama any credit for any economical advances. Or consider it was a ""republican"" president that ran the nation into the ground. Need we be reminded of 2008 and that taxpayer bailout?
I would think not.
And considering it is much easier to burn down a house than rebuilt it.
GW burnt down the house not wasting any time.
It is amazing Obama has been able to rebuilt that house as well as he has, all considering.
And the all considering being constant non-cooperation from republicans in congress.
Then add to that, government shutdowns by republicans.
Few presidents throughout history have walked into such financial disaster on day one, and then been able to recover the economy to the point where Obama has.
So we can disregard any right wing bull about this president not having done enough.
It is easy to throw rocks, and burn down a house.
But just try cooperating a little to build one, Mr republican.
As for payday loans, sure they are nasty devils, and once started hard to break free from.
Usually some unforeseen hardship is what causes one to find themselves in a payday loan store in the first place.
Car repairs, medical bills, house or rent payments behind, legal issues, sudden employment change, job furlough, layoff, utility bills, and so on and so on...
But on the other hand, what are the options?
Burrowing from a friend?
Borrowing from a relative?
Employer pay advance?
Bouncing a check?
Bouncing a check...
That is usually the only other real option.
And when you weigh in bank fees for bounced check(s) vs payday loan fees, your better off going to the payday loan store.
With avoiding further problems from the bank itself for bouncing check(s), at
least a payday loan will avoid a bounced check, and a hold on the bank account, and legal action from the bank.
Paying off that payday loan is another issue, and where the borrower becomes trapped in re-writing over and over again, unable to pay off the full balance.
The fees add up fast, but not any more than banking fees from bouncing check(s).
Limiting how payday loan stores operate is not going to help someone in need of fast cash.
Not unless laws are changed so that fee is less, and the payback can be extended over more time.
More payday loan borrowers could break out of their obligation should they begin to fall in that rut of writing loan after loan.
In reality, banks are behind the push for more payday loan reforms.
Why?
Payday stores cut in on their business.
The bank rather you bounce a check and pay "their" fee, than get a short term loan and pay the payday loan fee.
Bank lobbyist in congress have been trying to put payday loan stores out of business for a long time.
it's all simply a nasty situation to find ones self in.
Either bouncing a check for an emergency financial need, or borrowing from payday loans.
And the best way to fix this, pay working people a decent living wage in the first place.
Get more people off government assistance by forcing employers to pay a decent wage people can live on.
Save a few dollars on for an emergency.
Get out of that rut living paycheck to paycheck.
When they bust unions, bust the middle class, bust the living wage, bust a decent living, the only option is more and more workers heading for that payday loan store, or bouncing checks.
You can't blame the victim. You have to blame the cause.
And republican economics is a good place to start the blame.
I never seen any republican congress person heading for a payday loan store.
Nope!
They just raise their own wages, and grant themselves more financial perks.
As well as living off a pretty nice government healthcare plan.
That very same all inclusive universal healthcare plan that republicans refuse to pass onto you.
I would think not.
And considering it is much easier to burn down a house than rebuilt it.
GW burnt down the house not wasting any time.
It is amazing Obama has been able to rebuilt that house as well as he has, all considering.
And the all considering being constant non-cooperation from republicans in congress.
Then add to that, government shutdowns by republicans.
Few presidents throughout history have walked into such financial disaster on day one, and then been able to recover the economy to the point where Obama has.
So we can disregard any right wing bull about this president not having done enough.
It is easy to throw rocks, and burn down a house.
But just try cooperating a little to build one, Mr republican.
As for payday loans, sure they are nasty devils, and once started hard to break free from.
Usually some unforeseen hardship is what causes one to find themselves in a payday loan store in the first place.
Car repairs, medical bills, house or rent payments behind, legal issues, sudden employment change, job furlough, layoff, utility bills, and so on and so on...
But on the other hand, what are the options?
Burrowing from a friend?
Borrowing from a relative?
Employer pay advance?
Bouncing a check?
Bouncing a check...
That is usually the only other real option.
And when you weigh in bank fees for bounced check(s) vs payday loan fees, your better off going to the payday loan store.
With avoiding further problems from the bank itself for bouncing check(s), at
least a payday loan will avoid a bounced check, and a hold on the bank account, and legal action from the bank.
Paying off that payday loan is another issue, and where the borrower becomes trapped in re-writing over and over again, unable to pay off the full balance.
The fees add up fast, but not any more than banking fees from bouncing check(s).
Limiting how payday loan stores operate is not going to help someone in need of fast cash.
Not unless laws are changed so that fee is less, and the payback can be extended over more time.
More payday loan borrowers could break out of their obligation should they begin to fall in that rut of writing loan after loan.
In reality, banks are behind the push for more payday loan reforms.
Why?
Payday stores cut in on their business.
The bank rather you bounce a check and pay "their" fee, than get a short term loan and pay the payday loan fee.
Bank lobbyist in congress have been trying to put payday loan stores out of business for a long time.
it's all simply a nasty situation to find ones self in.
Either bouncing a check for an emergency financial need, or borrowing from payday loans.
And the best way to fix this, pay working people a decent living wage in the first place.
Get more people off government assistance by forcing employers to pay a decent wage people can live on.
Save a few dollars on for an emergency.
Get out of that rut living paycheck to paycheck.
When they bust unions, bust the middle class, bust the living wage, bust a decent living, the only option is more and more workers heading for that payday loan store, or bouncing checks.
You can't blame the victim. You have to blame the cause.
And republican economics is a good place to start the blame.
I never seen any republican congress person heading for a payday loan store.
Nope!
They just raise their own wages, and grant themselves more financial perks.
As well as living off a pretty nice government healthcare plan.
That very same all inclusive universal healthcare plan that republicans refuse to pass onto you.
What I thought was funny is that you're so overcome with rage at Obama that even when you think you're 'praising' him you have to preface it with a passage twice as long about how much you hate him.
Weird.
1prophet
Diamond Member
All hail Obama for going after those nasty vultures known as payday lenders,
while his buddies the banksters and wall street get away with raping the country and walking free to boot, while creating a society where pay day lenders are necessary and can thrive.
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/17/hu...son-during-the-last-fraud-fueled-bank-crisis/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/untouchables/
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedkaufman/2013/07/29/why-doj-deemed-bank-execs-too-big-to-jail/
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-wall-street-execs-werent-prosecuted-2013-1
while his buddies the banksters and wall street get away with raping the country and walking free to boot, while creating a society where pay day lenders are necessary and can thrive.
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/17/hu...son-during-the-last-fraud-fueled-bank-crisis/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/untouchables/
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedkaufman/2013/07/29/why-doj-deemed-bank-execs-too-big-to-jail/
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-wall-street-execs-werent-prosecuted-2013-1
That's the key point. There are people who have a track record of not repaying their debts (for whatever reason), or who don't have sufficient collateral to support loans. Those people are going to have a hard time getting anything from regular financial institutions. The predatory lenders have filled that void, becoming very wealthy in the process. It doesn't seem very logical to blame them for filling the void, the more logical answer is to look at addressing the reasons they exist and thrive.
Not sure about companies in your area, but the public documents of Advance America show around a 5% net income. I'll guess the privately held companies are less than that. And based on how many I've seen come and go, I think using the term "thrive" is a bit exaggerated.
Overall, I'm generally against the federal government telling people they can't decide for themselves how they can deal with their current financial problems.
Looking at actual stats (albeit stats provided by the currently demonized industry) instead of the overly dramatic rare extremes the liberals like to focus on, the fact is *most* people that use the services provided by these companies (or *this* company in specific) are satisfied with what they get for their money.
Even if the overly dramatic extreme that the liberals love to focus on were true for *all* of their customers, I'd still rather those people pay an elevated interest rate on their short term loan than have to resort to losing their homes or other property... or even worse -- resorting to crime -- for the same money.
Even worse is these guys prey on our military families, usually the wives taking care of the family while their husband is deployed. Once you get that first loan and can only make the interest payment when it's due, you are in a financial death spiral. The military frowns on debt so all they have to do is threaten to call the soldiers CO.
It's disgusting that we let people prey on the people that are defending our country and families of the men and women actively deployed in war zones. Look up any military base and search for payday loans and see just how many there are in the area.
It's disgusting that we let people prey on the people that are defending our country and families of the men and women actively deployed in war zones. Look up any military base and search for payday loans and see just how many there are in the area.
So when a hurricane is barreling down on a city gas station owners should be able to jack up the price of gas to $20/gallon, right?
I'm as free market as anyone but this is exactly the type of predatory shit the .gov should regulate. Even worse is all of the insane things they call themselves so that they aren't considered lending institutions when new regs are put on them.
https://youtu.be/PDylgzybWAw
highland145
Lifer
States should handle this.
Even lowly S.C. has just about put them out of business because they wouldn't self regulate.
Even lowly S.C. has just about put them out of business because they wouldn't self regulate.
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zinfamous
No Lifer
lolwut? Did you even read your own post?
The fact that you believed you formed a well thought out response to me is just so sad.
A gas station might jack up the rate because they can sell gasoline in the short term following a specific event like a hurricane quicker than a competitor can construct a new gas station and undercut the price.
If you can create a better lending service for people in the payday loan industry, you have had, what, 20 unobstructed years to build up a competing business and rake in a nice living for yourself. So what has stopped people from offering cheaper alternatives? Perhaps the industry isn't so profitable as you think it is. Perhaps the high rates are necessary because (1) they are very short term loans, (2) overhead costs must be covered, & (3) you have losses due to defaults lending money to one of the riskiest segments there is.
I have lots of friends who are entrepreneurs, if there is any industry making very high profits as you believe payday loan companies are, they would be all over creating a competing business. Cable companies are predatory because it's not cost-effective for a competitor to run all new, redundant, wiring throughout a region for their services. There is no such limitation preventing multiple payday loan services from competing for your business. There is no barrier to entry from high startup costs. All you need to create a competing business is a sum of cash and paperwork. Set your fees a little lower than the competition and the customers will come to you.
And at the end of the day, it's not the loan company who is at fault for the person needing a loan.
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Blanky
Platinum Member
I'm not familiar with the new rules, but the closer they come to rounding up all of the pay day lenders and put them in front of firing squads the better, so it sounds like I'm in Obama's corner on this one.
While we're at it, let's just outright ban ren a center as well. Just give them 30 days to shut it all down and be done with it.
While we're at it, let's just outright ban ren a center as well. Just give them 30 days to shut it all down and be done with it.
halik
Lifer
Essentially what the regulators are saying is that poor people should have a limited access to debt.
Probably not a bad idea, given that the outcome is almost always adverse to them - ie. poor people do not make or are in the circumstances that would allow them to make good financial decisions, but it's questionable whether the gov't should be there the prevent their poor decisions.
Probably not a bad idea, given that the outcome is almost always adverse to them - ie. poor people do not make or are in the circumstances that would allow them to make good financial decisions, but it's questionable whether the gov't should be there the prevent their poor decisions.
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halik
Lifer
Use of the word "bankster" is a good predictor of dreadlocks on white kids AND professional underemployment.
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glenn1
Lifer
The left doesn't like the proles being allowed to make the "wrong" economic decisions even if for their particular circumstances it might be appropriate (or even the best available) choice. Nope, gotta save everyone from themselves even if it makes them worse off. No payday lender for you since they charge 175% annualized interest in their loans, better you should let that check bounce and get hit with a $35 NSF fee which would represent 4,000% annualized interest in comparison. Or save them from the 175% annualized interest and leave them without the car repairs they need to get to work and earn a living and ensure they can't use payday lenders since they'll no longer have a job.
Or the left could do something completely infathomable and either (A) set up competing microfinance services that operate on more favorable terms, or (B) donate their own personal funds to charities or the poor directly so they don't need payday lending services, instead of just saying "government should do something and they should tax the rich to pay for it." But who am I kidding, that will never happen.
Matt1970
Lifer
Lord save us from ourselves. Take away all those sharp pointy things so we don't walk into them and take away all those things we may sign against our will not knowing the consequences.......
nickqt
Diamond Member
Allowing people to scam other people is a great idea, because people who get scammed are stupid.
highland145
Lifer
this.
Let's say these places are shut down, where will these borrowers get the $$ they need then? Obliviously some nice un regulated source.
I can understand the need for high rates.
However, to rollover at the extra high rate, forces a continual cycle where the customer is unable to break out.
Example
1000 initial loan at payday
200 fee
= 1200
come payday; the customer does not have the full $1200 pay back
So they pay $200 and again borrow the 1000
by loaning again the 1000 and by 200 fee will again be due; it is acting like a new loan each time
After 5 rollovers; the cost of the loan has doubled and they are no further able to pay it back - they are unable to save the full 1000
Should the renewals then be dropped to 75-100; then the customer may have a chance to break the cycle
However, to rollover at the extra high rate, forces a continual cycle where the customer is unable to break out.
Example
1000 initial loan at payday
200 fee
= 1200
come payday; the customer does not have the full $1200 pay back
So they pay $200 and again borrow the 1000
by loaning again the 1000 and by 200 fee will again be due; it is acting like a new loan each time
After 5 rollovers; the cost of the loan has doubled and they are no further able to pay it back - they are unable to save the full 1000
Should the renewals then be dropped to 75-100; then the customer may have a chance to break the cycle
highland145
Lifer
That's the hook but they can't, a lot of times, get installment loans so that they might have the ability to get out. I'm at ~35% and I won't lend most of them.
S.C. has done a couple of good things in this area. A customer can only have 1 payday at a time in the entire state and there's a 24hr cooling off period between loans so they have to pay the loan off before re-borrowing. Internet loans negate this.
But keep in mind that, here, the lender has no recourse other than screwing their credit. Judgements mean nothing if the customer has no real property and there's no garnishment.
Fern
Elite Member
He's the President, not emperor. He doesn't get to create or implement policy just because he feels like it. This is Congress's domain, not the Exec branch.
Fern
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