Obama plans high-speed money shredder, made in China.

[irishScott]

Whatever dude, I am not going to dress you down on my day off in here. You are quite infamous for reactionary and bombastic statements, not the worst mind you. You are no Spidey, but I am not your shrink.

I'm not asking you to be. God knows what you'd come up with. And if my relatively few posts in this forum have earned me such an "infamous" reputation then examples should be easy to find no? Surely a minute with the search function isn't too much to ask given the time you've already spent in this thread... oh wait you have nothing. Yeah, that would kinda kill things.

Remember what I said about flawed arguments snapping under pressure? Think I just proved my point.

 

[Steeplerot]

TheRedUnderURBed definitely lives in SF, I've lived in the Bay Area all my life and can just tell.

it's an hour and a half trip one way to the city from there.

Pittsburg/Bay Point
10:47 am departure
Civic Center/UN Plaza
11:44 am arrival

Hello fellow Bay area person.
Try using the bart trip planner before inserting foot into mouth.

(To those out of town P/BP is about as far as you can go out on the BART system)
United Nations Plaza station I use is actually 4 bart stations into San Francsico.

Where are you going thats taking another half hour? Another half hour would have you almost out of San Francisco County and heading for the airport.

 

[BoberFett]

Just as many of these bad elements in the 'burbs. The powers that be out there tend to treat criminals differently then in the cities and "keep it in the community". This is why when a isolated suburbanite freaks out they tend to be serial killers, child molesters, or spree killers. All folks with major issues of social retardation and a corrupt system of community support. The libertarians dreamworld.

And you're trying force all of those people you hate to live with you in your city. Why?

How about live and let live?

 

[Steeplerot]

And you're trying to force all of those people you hate to live with your pollution and oil wars because you think you are entitled to drive a car as a suburban American. Why?

How about live and let live?

Fixed

 

[Genx87]

And you're trying force all of those people you hate to live with you in your city. Why?

How about live and let live?

He is a sadist.

 

[Matt2]

Pittsburg/Bay Point
10:47 am departure
Civic Center/UN Plaza
11:44 am arrival

Hello fellow Bay area person.
Try using the bart trip planner before inserting foot into mouth.

(To those out of town P/BP is about as far as you can go out on the BART system)
United Nations Plaza station I use is actually 4 bart stations into San Francsico.

Where are you going thats taking another half hour? Another half hour would have you almost out of San Francisco County and heading for the airport.

Jeeeeeez, you're an angry soul. Sorry I overshot the time by 30 minutes. Can I take my foot out of my mouth now?

Would buying you a coffee at the corner of Haight-Ashbury improve your demeanor? I'm guessing no.

 

[SagaLore]

What is the lefts obsession with trains? I'll never understand it.

If you want to modernize our transportation why don't we build more interstates and airports that can take more volume.

Highspeed rail IS modernized transportation... more so than what you just suggested. :\

 

[Steeplerot]

Would buying you a coffee at the corner of Haight-Ashbury improve your demeanor? I'm guessing no.

People who live here generally don't hang out in tourist areas. So you would be correct. And no I am not mad, just annoyed by people talking shit about things like trains when they obviously have never been on one in their lives.

And I forgive you, I am the last person to hold the concept of bart and delayed times against someone.

 

[Fear No Evil]

People who live here generally don't hang out in tourist areas. So you would be correct. And no I am not mad, just annoyed by people talking shit about things like trains when they obviously have never been on one in their lives.

And I forgive you, I am the last person to hold the concept of bart and delayed times against someone.

And we're sick of people talking shit about cars when they are obviously too poor to afford one.

 

[sandorski]

If you can go 100-200 miles in an hour, that allows people to live 100-200 miles from Work. It's a decent way to avoid High Housing costs, especially for those with Families.

If it works like it has in this area with elevated Rail, wherever there's a station development goes into high gear. Providing decent priced housing within walking distance of the Station. That also promotes Retail/Commercial growth along with high density housing.

I suppose you could spend much more on more Roads, but there are problems with that. There's only so much Road you can build and everytime you build, it just fills up. Pollution and Energy needs are other very big problems with it. To the Individual Autos are efficient, but to the Whole they are very inefficient. Finally, if anyone thinks Roads are not subsidized and/or expensive to build or maintain, they're clueless.

HSR is very Efficient, has Low Pollution, removes Autos from the Roads(making current Road systems less congested), and allows People to live far from Work/Inner Cities.

That said, HSR isn't a panacea, but it is an important addition to a Transportation system.

 

[PeshakJang]

If you can go 100-200 miles in an hour, that allows people to live 100-200 miles from Work. It's a decent way to avoid High Housing costs, especially for those with Families.

If it works like it has in this area with elevated Rail, wherever there's a station development goes into high gear. Providing decent priced housing within walking distance of the Station. That also promotes Retail/Commercial growth along with high density housing.

I suppose you could spend much more on more Roads, but there are problems with that. There's only so much Road you can build and everytime you build, it just fills up. Pollution and Energy needs are other very big problems with it. To the Individual Autos are efficient, but to the Whole they are very inefficient. Finally, if anyone thinks Roads are not subsidized and/or expensive to build or maintain, they're clueless.

HSR is very Efficient, has Low Pollution, removes Autos from the Roads(making current Road systems less congested), and allows People to live far from Work/Inner Cities.

That said, HSR isn't a panacea, but it is an important addition to a Transportation system.

HSR is impractical for commuting, just like a 747 is impractical for going from Chicago to Indianapolis.

The more stops you build, the slower the train goes. Top speed would be no better than any regular commuter train we have now.

Only practical application is medium-long haul hub jumps/

On the time side.. it takes a little less than an hour to fly by plane from Indianapolis to Chicago... but that doesn't mean it takes ME an hour. I still need to drive to the airport, get there early, board the plane, then get to my destination and figure out how to get where I am going locally. If I wanted to fly there right now, it would take me upwards of 3 to maybe 4 hours, when I can drive there in 2, and have my car with me.

If you want to build it, you need to accept the fact that it will require federal subsidies for the length of its existence, but don't claim it will have positive economic benefit if you have absolutely no way of quantifying it.

 

[Steeplerot]

The more stops you build, the slower the train goes. Top speed would be no better than any regular commuter train we have now.

I take it you have never heard of the concept of a express train vs "local service"?

Heres how it works, if you live in BFE you get on local service train (lesser priority) and take it to a bigger town. There you get an express (high priority) to your destination with other folks from smaller towns.

Trains have prioritys on track. Long hauls/express thru-lines/perishable freight = greater priorities then others. They call using these "schedules". They also invented this thing called "track switching" which lets express and high priority trains bypass lower priorities without slowing down. Pretty cool huh?

This is 1850s technology that is used daily.

You can see this if you live in a town that only has bus service, heavily used lines will skip stops and thusly be labeled "limited" or "non-stop" so folks getting on at big stops can get to another big stop faster.

The more infrastructure you invest in creates more redundant lines for more uninterrupted track switchings as possible, the whole system becomes more efficient and smoother working in direct relation to the amount of rail available. More trains = more flexible service which increases ridership..which pays for the system to upgrade, which increases ridership....on and on.

 

[Throckmorton]

It's actually quite simple logic. A half assed rail network will fail as people will not adapt their lifestyles to something working half the time or not at all in their area. Getting people OUT of the suburbs and the unsustainable urban sprawl habits created by the auto industries in the 1950s era is the long term goal. This is not optional if we wish to prosper "down the road".

True urban life has huge drawbacks that matter to normal people. I've come to realize that the suburbanization of America has had huge benefits.

There is a reason people move to the suburbs when it's time to send their kids to school.

 

[sandorski]

True urban life has huge drawbacks that matter to normal people. I've come to realize that the suburbanization of America has had huge benefits.

There is a reason people move to the suburbs when it's time to send their kids to school.

It also has huge problems too. Don't kid yourself.

 

[Throckmorton]

It also has huge problems too. Don't kid yourself.

The problems have to do with cars and driving. Those problems won't exist in a few decades.

 

[sandorski]

The problems have to do with cars and driving. Those problems won't exist in a few decades.

Far more problems than that.

 

[Throckmorton]

Far more problems than that.

Like what?

 

[Steeplerot]

There is a reason people move to the suburbs when it's time to send their kids to school.

This is hilarious, so you guys are so arrogant you think "normal people" raise children in suburban areas? In about 3 hours our schools will be getting out, and trust me we have more kids in a one block radius then your whole towns in quite a few cases I am sure.

You guys think we do not have families here or something? We have more of everyone, just because some folks decide to shelter their kids because they are on some codependent paranoia trip to protect little precious Johnny just shows how clueless suburban folks are.

Wait, they are poor kids, or MUST be poor if they live in the Cities right? Wrong again, we have the highest real estate value in the USA pretty much, schools are nice and the multistory buildings are literally historic landmarks and foundations of civic pride. How many of your kids are in some shitty portables?

Lot of generalizations and ignorance in here. From people not understanding what simple track switching is to assuming only "normal" people do some shit they do.

Yeah, some kids around here growing up may have seen a dude smoking crack or something, but they grow up knowing how lame crack is and having a knowledge of what not to do with themselves.

A lot of suburban folks when faced with "real life" never grew up in "the hustle" or know of any struggle besides inner family drama. That is not a well-rounded and I find these folks are stunted by not being able to adapt quickly (and take advantage/realize small opportunity windows). But then all parents have their own views.

 

[Throckmorton]

I've lived in a lot of places. Trinidad, Tobago, urban Houston, suburban Houston, urban Austin, Yellowstone, Maui... Overall the best place to live was urban Austin, and the second best was suburban Houston.

 

[Throckmorton]

This is hilarious, so you guys are so arrogant you think "normal people" raise children in suburban areas? In about 3 hours our schools will be getting out, and trust me we have more kids in a one block radius then your whole towns mobbing the streets.

You guys think we do not have families here or something? We have more of everyone, just because some folks decide to shelter their kids because they are on some paranoia trip to protect little precious Johnny just shows how clueless suburban folks are.

Wait, they are poor kids, or MUST be poor if they live in the Cities right? Wrong again, we have the highest real estate value in the USA pretty much, schools are nice and the multistory buildings are literally historic landmarks and foundations of civic pride. How many of your kids are in some shitty portables?

Lot of generalizations and ignorance in here. From people not understanding what simple track switching is to assuming only "normal" people do some shit they do.

Those nice residential parts of cities are few and far between. I went to middle school in the Houston school district, and even at that age there is gang violence, pregnancy, drugs, etc. The high school that I was zoned to go to was as ghetto as it gets, so I count myself lucky that my parents decided to move to the suburbs. HISD has a few good schools, but most are bad.

I don't know what city you live in because your location says "Red Square" and you haven't told us, but I'm guessing it's a wealthy white city like Portland or Seattle.

 

[sandorski]

Like what?

- usually built on Agricultural land

- forces residents to use vehicles for the simplest of tasks due to distances from Stores and Services

- lacks access to all sorts of activities, partially due to Distance, but also due to lack of population

- they're a freakin wasteland, devoid of beauty, nature, and culture

 

[Steeplerot]

but I'm guessing it's a wealthy white city like Portland or Seattle.

No one knows, even wiki thinks I am in this obscure temporal nob/loin flux or something.

I Blame Moonbeam! -him and his buddies probably broke some continuum thing in the late 60s smoking banana peels on my corner.

 

[Throckmorton]

- usually built on Agricultural land

I used to think that was an issue... until I became a geographer. Suburban land is miniscule compared to the vast areas required for agriculture. There is no impact except on a very small local scale.
The percentage of America that is suburban AND urban land use is only about 2.6%.
http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/EIB14/
The United States has a total land area of nearly 2.3 billion acres. Major uses in 2002 were forest-use land, 651 million acres (28.8 percent); grassland pasture and range land, 587 million acres (25.9 percent); cropland, 442 million acres (19.5 percent); special uses (primarily parks and wildlife areas), 297 million acres (13.1 percent); miscellaneous other uses, 228 million acres (10.1 percent); and urban land, 60 million acres (2.6 percent).

- forces residents to use vehicles for the simplest of tasks due to distances from Stores and Services

That won't be be relevant when we have electric cars running on free wind and solar power. It's barely relevant now-- the distances you drive are miniscule.
The real problem is people commuting to cities to work, and that is nullified when businesses locate in those exurbs. I did contract work at the oil company Anadarko. Their office is in The Woodlands, and a lot of the employees live very close by. There's no real tradeoff but they benefit from better standard of living, lower taxes, cheaper land, and no risk of urban decay.

Telecommuting is the way of the future.

- lacks access to all sorts of activities, partially due to Distance, but also due to lack of population

Not really. When I was fixing the soft top on my Miata I took it for a test drive in Magnolia, TX. I found a band playing in a little industrial structure, probably a machinist or mechanic shop. There are bars and restaurants in suburban areas too, and not just Applebees... Whether you like them or you like house music clubs is personal preference.

- they're a freakin wasteland, devoid of beauty, nature, and culture

Where is the nature in Brooklyn? New Urbanist suburban developments tend to have parks and nature reserves. Everywhere that has people has culture... You seem to be making a value judgment that one type of culture is better than another.

 

[sandorski]

I used to think that was an issue... until I became a geographer. Suburban land is miniscule compared to the vast areas required for agriculture. There is no impact except on a very small local scale.
The percentage of America that is suburban AND urban land use is only about 2.6%.
http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/EIB14/
The United States has a total land area of nearly 2.3 billion acres. Major uses in 2002 were forest-use land, 651 million acres (28.8 percent); grassland pasture and range land, 587 million acres (25.9 percent); cropland, 442 million acres (19.5 percent); special uses (primarily parks and wildlife areas), 297 million acres (13.1 percent); miscellaneous other uses, 228 million acres (10.1 percent); and urban land, 60 million acres (2.6 percent).

That won't be be relevant when we have electric cars running on free wind and solar power. It's barely relevant now-- the distances you drive are miniscule.
The real problem is people commuting to cities to work, and that is nullified when businesses locate in those exurbs. I did contract work at the oil company Anadarko. Their office is in The Woodlands, and a lot of the employees live very close by. There's no real tradeoff but they benefit from better standard of living, lower taxes, cheaper land, and no risk of urban decay.

Telecommuting is the way of the future.

Not really. When I was fixing the soft top on my Miata I took it for a test drive in Magnolia, TX. I found a band playing in a little industrial structure, probably a machinist or mechanic shop. There are bars and restaurants in suburban areas too, and not just Applebees... Whether you like them or you like house music clubs is personal preference.

Where is the nature in Brooklyn? New Urbanist suburban developments tend to have parks and nature reserves. Everywhere that has people has culture... You seem to be making a value judgment that one type of culture is better than another.

- Suburbia is usually built on Agricultural land, because it's the most convenient and best suited for that purpose.

- Having to Drive everywhere isn't just about Pollution, but lack of physical activity, Cost, and convenience.

- I'll concede that Nature was a bad point, other than that Suburbs often destroy it in a massive fashion where it once existed

- It's not that one Culture is superior to another, but that the Suburbs are devoid of it.

 

[JSt0rm]

What is the lefts obsession with trains? I'll never understand it.

If you want to modernize our transportation why don't we build more interstates and airports that can take more volume.

would you believe that we are using most of the airspace above the united states? Trains are the best option for density.