Obama plans high-speed money shredder, made in China.

[MotF Bane]

High speed rail here in California is projected to use 1/10 the fuel of a plane from SF to LA per person, get you there just as fast, for less $ and without getting your junk touched by some government neanderthal. Hmm, why would we want trains?

Give that about a year, and it'll start happening anyways.

 

[Steeplerot]

It must really suck for you that in this country people are free to move away from the urban squalor, and not have to be surrounded by crackheads, gangbangers, bums, pollution, noise, and on and on.

Just as many of these bad elements in the 'burbs. The powers that be out there tend to treat criminals differently then in the cities and "keep it in the community". This is why when a isolated suburbanite freaks out they tend to be serial killers, child molesters, or spree killers. All folks with major issues of social retardation and a corrupt system of community support. The libertarians dreamworld.

 

[matt0611]

To explain with an example of why your logic here is flawed I live in a city of 800,000 people at night. During the day suburbanites stream in from 100 miles to provide the congestion you speak of. Our daytime population can hover within a few MILLIONS! Those outlying people could be served by transit (and many are already with the rather slow outdated but still awesome BART trains) well back and forth to outlying population centers such as silicon valley, the east/north/south bay and beyond into the central valleys.

Intercity rail is best provided by raised tracks or subways, not HSR of course. But that is a whole different ballgame, I am all for upgrading ICR also. The more transit infrastructure exists the more people utilize the system to get around. Some places people never even have to drive a car in their whole lifetimes. Don't give us that crap about how it cant work when it is reality for folks in this country everyday for over a century. Here and all over the world

Yes, I was speaking about long distance from city to city, not trains that go from suburbs to the city.

I used to commute to the city by train from the suburbs from work every day for years, I think thats fine if it makes sense cost wise for us to build them. But these long distance trains from city to city I question the value we get from them.

 

[Steeplerot]

Give that about a year, and it'll start happening anyways.

To keep it on the real I hope not and fear this also. Much tougher to crash a train then a plane though. A underwear bomb isn't gonna do shit to the whole rolling stock where it would trash a pressurized plane 40k feet up.

 

[xj0hnx]

Just as many of these bad elements in the 'burbs. The powers that be out there tend to treat criminals differently then in the cities and "keep it in the community". This is why when a isolated suburbanite freaks out they tend to be serial killers, child molesters, or spree killers. All folks with major issues of social retardation and a corrupt system of community support. The libertarians dreamworld.

You are truly a delusional being.

 

[Genx87]

From a National Defense/logistics point of view, it makes sense. There's no better way to move large troop units and it's equipment as quiclky and as efficiently.

Also, it's just about the most feasible way, economically/environmentally speaking, to get the population from A to B, provided the population deems this mode of transportation desirable.

IDK how AMTRAK is doing, but what the administration is proposing is a huge step up technology-wise.

edit - I wonder how the airline industry is looking at this.

The fastest way to move troops and equipment is via our road system. If we have time trains work better. But a high speed train has nothing to do with moving troops and equipment.

 

[Steeplerot]

Yes, I was speaking about long distance from city to city, not trains that go from suburbs to the city.

HSR is as fast as a Jet already in some places. Fuel costs are much less.

The answer is not all or nothing but a blend of all. Air travel is for now dominant as the infrastructure is already in effect. HSR will cost less once set up as fuel prices compared to a jet alone will bring ticket prices down. The free market will handle the rest. And besides, people do NOT fly from one metro area to another, your only choice for medium trips is a even more inefficient mode of transport then a fuel guzzling jet...a car. Regardless of the naysayers I think there is a HST option there also, maybe not as big and fast as a Coast to Coast HSR line. But like other countries, they have different trains for different jobs.

 

[irishScott]

Actually, from your usual posts you fit the bill perfectly, out of touch, angry at life and fellow americans, and thinking everyone is gaming the system at your (narassistic) expense.

Out of touch? With the inner-cities maybe, but no more than you are obviously out of touch with suburbia. You talk about isolation breeding paranoia and misunderstanding, but openly admit to not being able to leave your precious city. Yeah, you're not isolated to a single environment at all.

Angry at life? Uh.... no. I'm in good shape, have many friends, an awesome relationship and a good career path that should enable me to live comfortably. Granted I have my fair share of shit family wise but on the whole I live a pretty damn good life for myself. The past is the past, and the present is pretty awesome.

Thinking everyone is gaming the system at my expense? Not everyone by a longshot, but plenty of people are out for themselves. In the cities too. And if it's paranoia, then I guess all those people in the cities asking me for handouts to "take their kid to McDonalds" (even though there's no kid in sight) aren't gaming the system at all. Strange you don't see many of those people in the suburbs. Oh and there's also the patent-fraud lawsuit I saw go down first-hand that directly affected my family. Yeah, no one's gaming the system at all.


Not that I understand how you could get any of the above from my posts in the first place, but I guess you see what you want to see. Even if all you have to go off of is generalizations from political debates. Here's a hint: I don't live my life like a P&N political debate.

 

[Steeplerot]

But a high speed train has nothing to do with moving troops and equipment.

How does this logic work? The military uses Amtrak/greyhound all the time and they are about as efficient as tits on a bull.

Awesome, the anti-HSR folks are getting nervous about the coming "National Security" aspect of having a modern efficient rail network being used as a argument.

This is the dealer killer for HSR haters, if it enhances the miltary industrial complex -damn the torpedos full speed ahead go USA! *whistle sounds*

 

[Genx87]

Until you cannot afford the gas for your lifestyle, then your house will crumble back into the field it once came, and the cities will be thriving. Ignorance is bliss. Gas prices are not going down, good job on being prideful of waste and ignorance. Feel better about yourself? I am sure you think you do, now. Those suburban houses are going to be worth shit soon in direct relation to fuel prices and you will be homeless looking for handouts from city folks smart enough to work together. I hear the same story every day from folks with exactly your attitude who have already arrived at their own undoing sucking dick for food on Polk st when they had a 4 bedroom house the year before lol. "It could never happen to MY family, we are GOOD people" Little late isnt it?

Uh huh, we have this thing called the internet. You may have heard about it. Allows people to telecommute. You thinking suburban sprawl can not only be contained but reversed it lol funny.

 

[xj0hnx]

The fastest way to move troops and equipment is via our road system. If we have time trains work better. But a high speed train has nothing to do with moving troops and equipment.

Nope, sure doesn't. They aren't about to load a bunch of tanks, and APC's on a 300mph train.

 

[werepossum]

Because these modes of transport are inefficient fuel wise and a total fail for sustainability long term. question is: why are republicans so dead set on living in a third world country is what I would like to know.

Ironic that you'd say that, since in Third World and poor Old World countries train is by far the most common mode of transportation. And when it's not a train, it's a bus, short-haul trains for the poor masses. Only in a modern and prosperous capitalist country do you find middle class citizens owning automobiles, free to travel where they will.

Personally I kind of like trains and don't understand why they are not more successful, considering that it's one of the most efficient modes of transportation. My wife and I even planned a long train trip, but from our home that meant roughly fourteen hours minimum sitting in coach before we could transfer to a sleeper car. Oh wait, now I remember why trains are not more successful . . .

Anyway I think the left only likes trains because they know "someone else" will have to subsidize their travel.

Just as many of these bad elements in the 'burbs. The powers that be out there tend to treat criminals differently then in the cities and "keep it in the community". This is why when a isolated suburbanite freaks out they tend to be serial killers, child molesters, or spree killers. All folks with major issues of social retardation and a corrupt system of community support. The libertarians dreamworld.

Now I know why you are under the bed. The real world is not nearly as scary as you seem to think feel it is.

 

[Genx87]

HSR is as fast as a Jet already in some places. Fuel costs are much less.

The answer is not all or nothing but a blend of all. Air travel is for now dominant as the infrastructure is already in effect. HSR will cost less once set up as fuel prices compared to a jet alone will bring ticket prices down. The free market will handle the rest. And besides, people do NOT fly from one metro area to another, your only choice for medium trips is a even more inefficient mode of transport then a fuel guzzling jet...a car. Regardless of the naysayers I think there is a HST option there also, maybe not as big and fast as a Coast to Coast HSR line. But like other countries, they have different trains for different jobs.

I expect this "free" market will not include govt subsidized fares for trains?

 

[Genx87]

How does this logic work? The military uses Amtrak/greyhound all the time and they are about as efficient as tits on a bull.

Awesome, the anti-HSR folks are getting nervous about the coming "National Security" aspect of having a modern efficient rail network being used as a argument.

This is the dealer killer for HSR haters, if it enhances the miltary industrial complex -damn the torpedos full speed ahead go USA! *whistle sounds*

What do you mean does that logic work? You expecting to load thousands of tons worth of tanks and ammunition on a 200mph train? lmao

 

[PeshakJang]

How does this logic work? The military uses Amtrak/greyhound all the time and they are about as efficient as tits on a bull.

Awesome, the anti-HSR folks are getting nervous about the coming "National Security" aspect of having a modern efficient rail network being used as a argument.

We already have a modern, efficient rail system in terms of cargo.

As pointed out above me... HSR isn't moving tanks around. Our existing freight train system is more than capable, and has been doing quite well for some time.

The military also has quite a few of their own airplanes for moving troops around, which air strips on just about every major base. Troop movement via train is virtually a thing of the past.

 

[Steeplerot]

Here's a hint: I don't live my life like a P&N political debate.

Well, when you come off as one of the more unstable and angry posters around here you are not proving your now suddenly moderate stances very well. You are one of the folks who get worked up pretty bad. Just sayin. My apologies for broad personal generalizations -but your posting history does not match the current rhetoric.

 

[Genx87]

Ironic that you'd say that, since in Third World and poor Old World countries train is by far the most common mode of transportation. And when it's not a train, it's a bus, short-haul trains for the poor masses. Only in a modern and prosperous capitalist country do you find middle class citizens owning automobiles, free to travel where they will.

Personally I kind of like trains and don't understand why they are not more successful, considering that it's one of the most efficient modes of transportation. My wife and I even planned a long train trip, but from our home that meant roughly fourteen hours minimum sitting in coach before we could transfer to a sleeper car. Oh wait, now I remember why trains are not more successful . . .

Anyway I think the left only likes trains because they know "someone else" will have to subsidize their travel.

We looked into going to Keystone on a train from MN once. The cost was actually more than an airplane. Not by much, but more. Ok, so we stomach the extra cost for an experience. Except the train took us to Seattle and then backtracked to colorado. Total trip time was like 3 days va 90 mins in an airplane lmao.

 

[Steeplerot]

We already have a modern, efficient rail system in terms of cargo.

Our freight system is a mess, have you actually ever taken Amtrak? It shares the same rail. And it is a godfreakingawful mess, last time I was on it this dude was describing to me how much better BULGARIAN rail was. Bulgaria is like the cold-war ass of Europe.

This is about HSR, not freight. I am curious who told you HSR engines are incapable of pulling modified flatcars also? Most modern commuter rail has options that take your car with you long distances. So there goes that weaksauce argument.

Just an example on how dilapidated our freight is, the average freight car has not been sprayed out for chemicals or debris in 10 years now. Ever know people that freighthop? The system is falling apart since the 70s switching and automation has filled in some gaps, but the overwhelming decay from age and lack of infrastructure upgrades such as right of way and railbed is sad. Go look at your nearest track, if you see wooden ties on your rail you are living somewhere that is dangerously outdated..Like 1800s outdated. But yet you guys use he argument that the fact that trains cannot safely travel at modern speeds because of disrepair as a argument that trains are ineffective.

That kind of starve the beast talk-radio self-fullfilling logic may fool folks about obscure government programs failures, but all a person has to do is look with their own eyes at the state of this countries infrastructure to see it does not pass the sniff test of reasoned logic.

 

[werepossum]

We looked into going to Keystone on a train from MN once. The cost was actually more than an airplane. Not by much, but more. Ok, so we stomach the extra cost for an experience. Except the train took us to Seattle and then backtracked to colorado. Total trip time was like 3 days va 90 mins in an airplane lmao.

That was exactly our experience, it cost more than air travel. My wife really wanted a train trip and we were willing to travel anywhere.

 

[Genx87]

Our freight system is a mess, have you actually ever taken Amtrak? It shares the same rail. And it is a godfreakingawful mess, last time I was on it this dude was describing to me how much better BULGARIAN rail was. Bulgaria is like the cold-war ass of Europe.

Why is it a mess? Because passenger travel on it isnt great? File that under no shit sherlock.

 

[trenchfoot]

The fastest way to move troops and equipment is via our road system. If we have time trains work better. But a high speed train has nothing to do with moving troops and equipment.

I see your point, considering how mobile our military has become compared with how it was not twenty years ago. I think it had something to do with updating our force structure to meet current threat scenario's, ie - formation of stryker brigades, etc.

As far as high speed trains being used, along with existing rail-bound resources, I would think military planners would somehow factor in and take advantage of any source of major transportation in a military national emergency, but that's just me thinking off the top of my head.

 

[irishScott]

Well, when you come off as one of the more unstable and angry posters around here you are not proving your now suddenly moderate stances very well. You are one of the folks who get worked up pretty bad. Just sayin. My apologies for broad personal generalizations -but your posting history does not match the current rhetoric.

Examples?

Most of what I post about in here is gun rights, an issue I am passionate about. Given that there is a lot of ignorance on both sides and ignorance pisses me off in general, yeah I get a little emotionally involved. And in that case I do feel like the opposition is trying to deny me my right to self defense for "my own good". Which is condescending, which pisses me off. In any case I go into a debate, especially on a forum, expecting to be frustrated at some point. Just par for the course.

I believe in seeing something through until it's finished, no matter how frustrating it may get. In the case of a forum debate, that means I'll keep coming back until the argument is somehow finished. This can get frustrating by comparison to real life debates, as I can't call people out in front of their peers and pressuring them until their flawed arguments snap takes longer.

As for unstable... yeah I have no idea how you can even make that judgment on a forum in the first place outside of some extreme cases.

 

[Steeplerot]

Whatever dude, I am not going to dress you down on my day off in here. You are quite infamous for reactionary and bombastic statements, not the worst mind you. You are no Spidey, but I am not your shrink.

Not too hard to spot retards in here, just look out for folks who generalize and make balkanizing statements like "half the USA wants to redistribute wealth/leech off society/people in cities are poor/on the take/Democracy is a failure mob rule/political enemies are against america/european allies are communists/are letting themselves be taken over by caliphate/mexicans are lazy borderhoppers/popping babies out everywhere to be citizens etc etc the bullshit never ends and no one challenges this shit usually as it is so stupid. (and those fellow Americans who do try to chill you guys out get derided as people trying to promote propaganda against...I dont know who, talk radio land cultist world some dude set up to make money... You cannot turn your head in here without getting a faceful of drama queen entertainment shit from talk radio pitting Americans against one another. You folks need to get out and actually MEET real people sometime. You are slowly boiling the culture of this country off in a suburban shit stew of division. Take it down a notch retards, we are all americans trying to make it.

 

[xj0hnx]

Whatever dude, I am not going to dress you down on my day off in here. You are quite infamous for reactionary and bombastic statements, not the worst mind you. You are no Spidey, but I am not your shrink.

Translation = I was just talking out of my ass, and have nothing to back it up.

 

[Matt2]

TheRedUnderURBed definitely lives in SF, I've lived in the Bay Area all my life and can just tell.

I like taking BART when I have to get to the city, but I still have to drive twenty minutes to get to the nearest BART station (Pittsburg) and it's an hour and a half trip one way to the city from there.

Would you want a HSR system to replace BART, CALtrain and Muni? Or just for long distance trips, say SF to LA to SD?