Obama plans high-speed money shredder, made in China.

[irishScott]

Because these modes of transport are inefficient fuel wise and a total fail for sustainability long term. question is: why are republicans so dead set on living in a third world country is what I would like to know.

Go take a trip to the Congo and live there for a few months. Then go live in rural America. Then you'll know what the hell you're talking about.

 

[NaughtyGeek]

It's actually quite simple logic. A half assed rail network will fail as people will not adapt their lifestyles to something working half the time or not at all in their area. Getting people OUT of the suburbs and the unsustainable urban sprawl habits created by the auto industries in the 1950s era is the long term goal. This is not optional if we wish to prosper "down the road".

I nominate you to be the first to be forced to live in inner city Philly, Detroit, DC etc.. There's a reason people live in the suburbs and it's not the auto industry that drove us there.

 

[trenchfoot]

I can tell you how AMTRAK is doing = it's losing money, as it always has.

The US is not Europe, people, high speed trains will do nothing in providing economic or environmental benefits.

Thanks for the info on AMTRAK.

Here in Hawaii on the island of O'ahu, we have a bus system that is well-used, yet needs to be federally subsidized to operate. It operates at a loss since its inception, yet has been owned and operated by the City and County since the early (70's?). It is deemed as essential public transportation, is used mostly by lower income/student/tourist demographic.

This same system operates a sister company specializing in providing transportation for the physically challenged. It too operates at a loss, yet is well-used.

A major problem is the high cost of living in Hawaii. If the gov't were to privatize this system, the operator, to be profitable, would have to charge a fee that the regular ridership wouldn't be able to afford. Yet such services are needed by the public.

The local gov't is also plunging head-long into building an elevated rail system along the Honolulu corridor. In all probability, it too will operate at a loss, yet provide an essential public service, as the current bus system does.

Whoever is doing the feasibility study for this national hi-speed rail system has got one hell of a task, especially in the area of predicting ridership and what the overall cost will be to run/maintain the system. Logically, high ridership areas will compensate for low ridership areas, but it seems inevitable that this system will have to be subsidized to keep it going. How that plays out with the overall benefit of adding precious jobs to the economy is anyone's guess, for now.

But as I understand it, the focus for this project is on creating jobs.

 

[irishScott]

Thanks for the info on AMTRAK.

Here in Hawaii on the island of O'ahu, we have a bus system that is well-used, yet needs to be federally subsidized to operate. It operates at a loss since its inception, yet has been owned and operated by the City and County since the early (70's?). It is deemed as essential public transportation, is used mostly by lower income/student/tourist demographic.

This same system operates a sister company specializing in providing transportation for the physically challenged. It too operates at a loss, yet is well-used.

A major problem is the high cost of living in Hawaii. If the gov't were to privatize this system, the operator, to be profitable, would have to charge a fee that the regular ridership wouldn't be able to afford. Yet such services are needed by the public.

The local gov't is also plunging head-long into building an elevated rail system along the Honolulu corridor. In all probability, it too will operate at a loss, yet provide an essential public service, as the current bus system does.

Whoever is doing the feasibility study for this national hi-speed rail system has got one hell of a task, especially in the area of predicting ridership and what the overall cost will be to run/maintain the system. Logically, high ridership areas will compensate for low ridership areas, but it seems inevitable that this system will have to be subsidized to keep it going. How that plays out with the overall benefit of adding precious jobs to the economy is anyone's guess, for now.

But as I understand it, the focus for this project is on creating jobs.

Yes, apparently China's got this huge unemployment problem and needs some American investment.

 

[Steeplerot]

So now your logic is that it's social engineering...

You want trains because you think people shouldn't be living anywhere but the cities.

Yep, quite simple logic indeed. Change our entire culture and socioeconomic distribution because you don't like cars. Got it.

Not a matter of disliking, why would I care? What matters is efficiency and a future, which the status quo of autos do not provide, from a environmental/economic standpoint much less the national security aspect of having to get involved in oil wars. (which use even MORE fuel)

Why should people who use transit have to subsidize your cars and the resulting wars? Pull the entitlement tit from your mouth or make that personal choice to not expect us to pay for your lifestyle choices to live in areas with shit infrastructure so you are forced to rely on a car.

Picking your nose in privacy on the way to work is not in the constitution, sorry.

 

[PeshakJang]

But as I understand it, the focus for this project is on creating jobs.

That was the focus of the hundreds of billions spent on road construction projects... and that was shown to be an unequivocal failure in creating jobs.

Seeing as how GE will be producing the engines in China, I don't see how this will be any different.

 

[Steeplerot]

I nominate you to be the first to be forced to live in inner city Philly, Detroit, DC etc.

I live in the inner city you dolt, which is why I comment on public transit. I actually use it unlike the suburban peanut gallery.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I live in the inner city you dolt, which is why I comment on public transit. I actually use it unlike the suburban peanut gallery.

It would probably be cheaper for us taxpayers to buy you a car and move you to a suburb.

 

[PeshakJang]

I live in the inner city you dolt, which is why I comment on public transit. I actually use it unlike the suburban peanut gallery.

I'm glad I get to subsidize your ride.

Stop sucking the entitlement tit.

 

[Steeplerot]

Stop sucking the entitlement tit.

California provides a lions share of federal tax monies, guess where those freeways come from you guys use. btw, our transit provides us with profit, ironically it even helps pays for the iraq war even though the system uses almost no oil. Unlike your commie free roads you pay no toll for. You are welcome.

 

[Steeplerot]

It would probably be cheaper for us taxpayers to buy you a car and move you to a suburb.

I wouldn't live in one of those isolated crackerboxes if you paid me lol

Suburbia = slow death of the soul and human interaction, I enjoy people and day to day interactions too much to feel the need to hide from life in some box in a field.

I also enjoy walking to work and the feeling of not being a fat slob who drives 2 blocks for a slim jim, I am sure I am much more physically fit then any auto drivers my age thus a more healthy productive citizen. Not to mention mentally fit actually meeting new people daily, making new friends, and creating challenging interpersonal relationships that keep you on your toes when dealing with different types of folks actually being part of society instead of hiding/becoming a wingnut who thinks everyone is out to get you.

Really that is what the problem is with modern conservatism that comes through the media in my opinion, you folks need some real life friends..badly. Your minds have retreated into this victim mindset thanks to isolation. Isolation breeds paranoia of your fellow mans motives, just like the socially isolated tend to be racist through ignorance.

Also, the big kicker: Driving and a car are expensive, I pay 60$ a month and my transportation needs are taken care of 24/7 (if I need to go somewhere like across town or dont feel like walking). By not paying a car payment/insurance/repairs/fuel I can afford to live in a safe spot and reinvest the savings into my own small business. (this is huge and has probably been the difference in us being able to invest and grow during this "bad" economy when suburbanites with the poor infrastructure are shuttering their doors with gas prices and losing their homes like flies on shit)

 

[matt0611]

Long distance trains are going to have very little effect on urban traffic congestion. Its people commuting to and from work. I dont see the appeal in any of this or how it will help us in the long run. Just another project for government to waste money on.

 

[Fear No Evil]

California provides a lions share of federal tax monies, guess where those freeways come from you guys use. btw, our transit provides us with profit, ironically it even helps pays for the iraq war even though the system uses almost no oil. Unlike your commie free roads you pay no toll for. You are welcome.

Your transportation system uses almost no oil? Holy crap its a miracle. What lubs its moving parts? Unicorn dust?! I trust there is absolutely NO plastic on it either.

I'm also quite disappointed that you choose to fund the illegal and immoral war in Iraq. That really doesn't surprise me though, most Californians are war mongers like you. :thumbsdown:

Its also nice to see that you are embracing the social injustice that is capitalism and PROFITING from things like Public Transportation. How much cheaper would it be if you weren't raping the common man with your PROFIT?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Why not have the trains also carry POV carrier for each major city along with it.
Train arrives at the station; the POV carrier gets disconnected for that city.
Vehicles needing to be loaded for a destination down the road are already pre-positioned and just get driven onto the proper carrier.

Carrier already full; vehicle waits - passenger has the option of waiting with the vehicle; going ahead and/'or not taking the train at all.

Solves the problem of transpiration at either end of the trip - will required investment in The POV carrier infrastructure and create some jobs to handle the loading/offloading as well as moving the carrier cars around.

 

[Steeplerot]

Long distance trains are going to have very little effect on urban traffic congestion. Its people commuting to and from work. I dont see the appeal in any of this or how it will help us in the long run. Just another project for government to waste money on.

To explain with an example of why your logic here is flawed I live in a city of 800,000 people at night. During the day suburbanites stream in from 100 miles to provide the congestion you speak of. Our daytime population can hover within a few MILLIONS! Those outlying people could be served by transit (and many are already with the rather slow outdated but still awesome BART trains) well back and forth to outlying population centers such as silicon valley, the east/north/south bay and beyond into the central valleys.

Intercity rail is best provided by raised tracks or subways, not HSR of course. But that is a whole different ballgame, I am all for upgrading ICR also. The more transit infrastructure exists the more people utilize the system to get around. Some places people never even have to drive a car in their whole lifetimes. Don't give us that crap about how it cant work when it is reality for folks in this country everyday for over a century. Here and all over the world

 

[brencat]

It's actually quite simple logic. A half assed rail network will fail as people will not adapt their lifestyles to something working half the time or not at all in their area. Getting people OUT of the suburbs and the unsustainable urban sprawl habits created by the auto industries in the 1950s era is the long term goal. This is not optional if we wish to prosper "down the road".

That's fine...you go live in the city in your cramped 800 sq ft apartment that costs $800k and take a train and cabs everywhere.

Me, I'm going to continue commuting by car to my 4000 sq ft home on 2 acres in the middle of a QUIET forest and nature.

Suburban sprawl indeed. Silly liberals.

 

[Steeplerot]

Me, I'm going to continue commuting by car to my 4000 sq ft home on 2 acres in the middle of a QUIET forest and nature.

Until you cannot afford the gas for your lifestyle, then your house will crumble back into the field it once came, and the cities will be thriving. Ignorance is bliss. Gas prices are not going down, good job on being prideful of waste and ignorance. Feel better about yourself? I am sure you think you do, now. Those suburban houses are going to be worth shit soon in direct relation to fuel prices and you will be homeless looking for handouts from city folks smart enough to work together. I hear the same story every day from folks with exactly your attitude who have already arrived at their own undoing sucking dick for food on Polk st when they had a 4 bedroom house the year before lol. "It could never happen to MY family, we are GOOD people" Little late isnt it?

 

[ElFenix]

just so long as i can bring my own beer on the train i'll be fine.

 

[PeshakJang]

Amtrack currently requires $1.5 Billion - $2 Billion per year from the government just to operate. Next year, they requested $2.642 Billion from the federal government. They also received $1.3 Billion in stimulus dollars to continue operations.

Their trains average 2.3 gallons/mile. Average ticket price is $60.

Currently, for seat mile, they make $.18 cents, and lose $.222 cents.

For every mile one of their trains travels, they make $56.49, and lose $69.42. Month -to-month, the loss varies to almost -$20/mile at times.

There is no argument to support building a high-speed rail based on economics. As evident from Red's replies, the desire stems from self-satisfying ideals of Americans not knowing what is good for them. No amount of hand-waving and generalizing suburbanites will change the fact that desires for high-speed rail are based on no real facts.

 

[irishScott]

I wouldn't live in one of those isolated crackerboxes if you paid me lol

Suburbia = slow death of the soul and human interaction, I enjoy people and day to day interactions too much to feel the need to hide from life in some box in a field.

I also enjoy walking to work and the feeling of not being a fat slob who drives 2 blocks for a slim jim, I am sure I am much more physically fit then any auto drivers my age thus a more healthy productive citizen. Not to mention mentally fit actually meeting new people daily, making new friends, and creating challenging interpersonal relationships that keep you on your toes when dealing with different types of folks actually being part of society instead of hiding/becoming a wingnut who thinks everyone is out to get you.

Really that is what the problem is with modern conservatism that comes through the media in my opinion, you folks need some real life friends..badly. Your minds have retreated into this victim mindset thanks to isolation. Isolation breeds paranoia of your fellow mans motives, just like the socially isolated tend to be racist through ignorance.

Also, the big kicker: Driving and a car are expensive, I pay 60$ a month and my transportation needs are taken care of 24/7 (if I need to go somewhere like across town or dont feel like walking). By not paying a car payment/insurance/repairs/fuel I can afford to live in a safe spot and reinvest the savings into my own small business. (this is huge and has probably been the difference in us being able to invest and grow during this "bad" economy when suburbanites with the poor infrastructure are shuttering their doors with gas prices and losing their homes like flies on shit)

You've obviously never lived in a decent suburb. Cities are fun for a visit, but I like access to, oh I don't know. Space? Trees? Fresh Air? Not worrying if my subwoofer is disturbing the nieghbors? Not worrying if their subwoofer is disturbing me? The pride in owning and maintaining one's own property? More overall freedom?

Granted none of these are absolutely necessary to human life, but for me they make it a helluva lot more enjoyable.

And the big kicker: I am not restricted in my movements. If I wanted to drive across the country, I could. You may be happy ensconced in your hive, some of us prefer a little more freedom.

And I fail to see how having a whopping 20-50' between houses makes me fat, paranoid or friendless. Applying said traits to me or any of my neighbors/friends is laughable, and I was born and raised in a suburb, as were most of them.

 

[Steeplerot]

Amtrack currently requires $1.5 Billion - $2 Billion per year from the government just to operate. Next year, they requested $2.642 Billion from the federal government. They also received $1.3 Billion in stimulus dollars to continue operations.

Their trains average 2.3 gallons/mile. Average ticket price is $60.

Currently, for seat mile, they make $.18 cents, and lose $.222 cents.

For every mile one of their trains travels, they make $56.49, and lose $69.42. Month -to-month, the loss varies to almost -$20/mile at times.

Exactly, The system is as you point out slow, incomplete and inefficient. How is this a hard concept that you cannot get on a train if it does not come near? This information is a smoking gun at why we need a real HSR network and to move our network away from slow, polluting diesel trains asap. Good job on missing the point. (and proving mine)

 

[xj0hnx]

Until you cannot afford the gas for your lifestyle, then your house will crumble back into the field it once came, and the cities will be thriving. Ignorance is bliss. Gas prices are not going down, good job on being prideful of waste and ignorance. Feel better about yourself? I am sure you think you do, now. Those suburban houses are going to be worth shit soon in direct relation to fuel prices and you will be homeless looking for handouts from city folks smart enough to work together. I hear the same story every day from folks with exactly your attitude who have already arrived at their own undoing sucking dick for food on Polk st when they had a 4 bedroom house the year before lol. "It could never happen to MY family, we are GOOD people" Little late isnt it?

It must really suck for you that in this country people are free to move away from the urban squalor, and not have to be surrounded by crackheads, gangbangers, bums, pollution, noise, and on and on.

 

[Steeplerot]

Applying said traits to me or any of my neighbors/friends is laughable, and I was born and raised in a suburb, as were most of them.

Actually, from your usual posts you fit the bill perfectly, out of touch, angry at life and fellow americans, and thinking everyone is gaming the system at your (narassistic) expense.

 

[PeshakJang]

Exactly, The system is as you point out slow, incomplete and inefficient. How is this a hard concept that you cannot get on a train if it does not come near? This information is a smoking gun at why we need a real HSR network if anything. God job on missing the point. (and proving mine)

How is a high-speed rail going to benefit short-haul and commuter lines, which account for the majority of ridership by a factor of 6? You want trains to "come near" people... that requires a lot of stops. Otherwise you are just wasting time driving to the train station early to park and wait. HS rail provides no benefit.

The only benefit to HS rail is between city centers over 1-200 miles away. How is this going to help bring your deluded vision of what America should look like to life?

 

[PeshakJang]

Actually, from your usual posts you fit the bill perfectly, out of touch, angry at life and fellow americans, and thinking everyone is gaming the system at your (narassistic) expense.

You realize you are describing exactly how you've acted just in this thread?