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Obama lied about Benghazi

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My quarrels are simply:

-It was a known terror attack by all parties.
-The story was changed pending the election.
-Susan Rice was a fall guy.
-The requests for assistance were ignored
-Obama went to sleep then headed out to a fundraiser the next day.
-Clintons testimony saying "Whats it matter"
-Clintons Chief Attorney told everyone not to speak to investigators

Truthfully the President has a lot of people who buffer him from harm (political or otherwise). It's possible he actually thought it was the video, however his actions as it was happening and afterwards are pretty telling.

I personally feel that most of this should fall on the shoulders of Clinton and her immediate affiliates that had knowledge of this. It cannot be a shock how her history has played out since the attacks occurred.

If the Democrats in this thread who worship Hillary and want to see her win in 2016 need the damning shock campaigns your not going to have to look much further than the Primaries and Biden.

Absolutely nothing is going to happen unless Congress starts an actual investigation with subpoena powers which will not happen. Republicans will not do it because when they win next they are going to want the favor returned.

If you have not watched or listened to the testimony, Gregory Hicks's was pretty damning towards Clinton.
I also have a big problem with the fact that calls for assistance were ignored, but it's not a totally black and white issue. Someone made the decision to send away the Marine and CIA security from the diplomatic mission, send away the gun ships, stand down our SAR and quick reaction force. That's a terrible decision probably made for Libyan image concerns, with a rosy reading of the Libyan security situation. However, once that happened, our ability to effectively respond was greatly compromised. Mogadishu showed us what can happen when we send in military forces without adequate backup, reserves, and reaction forces - they can get chopped up piecemeal. In theory, one Blackhawk or two Little Birds can deliver a heavy team of Special Forces operators who can hit like a platoon. In practice however, it's very easy to lose a chopper to an RPG or even just mechanical failure. Then your reaction force becomes another tiny force in need of rescuing.

Viscerally, I agree that Obama's reaction is absolutely despicable. Intellectually however I'm reminded of Eisenhower going to bed early; for very different reasons, each had no real ability to influence events. I know by virtue of your career that the slogan "no one left behind" hits you much more deeply than the rest of us, and I agree that it's worth sending reinforcements to avoid a unit or especially civilians being wiped out even if you know you'll likely to take even heavier casualties by doing so. It's a covenant. But again, you know intellectually that you don't throw more lives away if you cannot effectively reinforce. How many military units have been given the command to stand and fight knowing they cannot survive? This may have been that situation due to bad decisions made earlier, so that reinforcing one post of civilians meant weakening and risking another if not having your warriors stranded somewhere in between and in need of rescue themsevels. Sending all the warriors from Tripoli would be disastrous if that larger target was also on the attack list, something one cannot know until after the fact.

It's absolutely indefensible to post diplomats or military forces in Indian country without adequate reinforcements. It's unfortunately not all that rare though, especially with embassies and diplomatic missions.

If you do care then can you list how something like this can be prevented from happening again?
Number one, never leave diplomats exposed with adequate American security forces.

Number two, never leave those American security forces without effective reserves, meaning an in-country America quick reaction force capable of reaching one post without fatally weakening another, with their own helicopter transport and in hostile or Muslim nations their own SAR and medivac assets.
 
Can I try, even though your question is not directed at me?

One of these mounted on top of any embassy should do the trick. If it can take out artillery shells midflight, a group of terrorists should pose no problem. 😛

Phalanx+Close-in+Weapon+Systems+DTN.jpg


My question was for anyone claiming this "investigation" is anything but political.


As far as your solution is concerned, I don't know if you are being serious or not but would you be ok with any of the embassies in the US having that on their roof?

But realistically how well do you think that machine would work if protesters turned attackers where 50 yards from the building? I would also think a rocket launcher could easily take it out before any retaliation could be made.



I take it no one is really serious about preventing a similar tragedy from happening again. Which is sad because it seems to be a common type of target. Even sadder is that we've been covering Benghazi for 8 months and not a single one of you can name a single thing that would have prevented this or lessened the chances of it happening again. If its not political and you care about the lived already lost wouldn't you be more concerned with prevention than finger pointing?


Even sadder still is that my question was already answered in the ARB report, which anyone who actually cares about the issue from a non political stand point could have referenced.
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/202446.pdf

By the way the report was done in December 2012 and as of February Clinton had stated that most of the recomendations had been implemented with the rest to follow.

The fact that none of you knew this shows who the real partisan ass hats are.


Go fuck yourselves and stick your faux Benghazi outrage up your ass.
 
You are totally talking out of your ass right now. You have literally zero idea as to when or why US forces are deployed in these countries. Your hilarious idea of a proclamation where the US tells the nations of the world that it will publicly violate their sovereignty at will is one of the stupidest foreign policy ideas I have ever heard in my life. The only competition would be if the angry shouts were drowned out by the laughs.
Perhaps you've forgotten Bush's proclamation on the night of September 11th, 2001 -- that being that we would go to the ends of the Earth to find and prosecute all of those responsible for the terrorist murder of our fellow Americans. You'd be hard-pressed to find an American who disagreed with that course of action at the time.

Unlike you, I haven't forgotten; and, when it comes to terrorists murdering Americans, I still believe that it's the correct course of action. However, unlike Bush, I believe all such actions should be limited to SOF.
 
Can I try, even though your question is not directed at me?

One of these mounted on top of any embassy should do the trick. If it can take out artillery shells midflight, a group of terrorists should pose no problem. 😛

Phalanx+Close-in+Weapon+Systems+DTN.jpg
Dude, that things spits out 4,500 kinetic kill 20mm rounds per minute. Those things don't disappear; they WILL all come down, with enough kinetic energy to kill and maim through solid concrete walls no matter how acute the angle, over a range of several miles. Firing one in a city would be the height of irresponsibility and would possibly kill dozens of non-combatants in addition to the rockets or artillery shells. 😛 indeed! 😀 Although I can't think of a better way to make sure the neighborhood doesn't ignore a mortar or rocket team setting up! 😀

There are ongoing attempts to provide something similar with proximity-fused or time-fused shells, but I believe currently the dud rate is something like 2%, with a target of 0.5%. Even a score of high explosive shells a minute falling into civilian areas is not going to be acceptable. Until we can accomplish this with radar- or optically-guided high energy lasers, we aren't going to have an effective defense shield for embassies and diplomatic missions.
 
Perhaps you've forgotten Bush's proclamation on the night of September 11th, 2001 -- that being that we would go to the ends of the Earth to find and prosecute all of those responsible for the terrorist murder of our fellow Americans. You'd be hard-pressed to find an American who disagreed with that course of action at the time.

Unlike you, I haven't forgotten; and, when it comes to terrorists murdering Americans, I still believe that it's the correct course of action. However, unlike Bush, I believe all such actions should be limited to SOF.

Unlike you, I don't base my decisions as to what makes good foreign policy on emotion driven desires for revenge. That's of course because I learned something from the last ten years.
 
Please explain how these hearings are going to fix anything. I'm serious, because I don't see it. All I see is a lot of political finger-pointing and nonsense.

The energy being put into this idiotic display on Capitol Hill should be going into securing embassies and fixing whatever red tape caused this mess to happen. The real solutions will be found within the c and the military, not Darrell Issahole putting on a grand display. Fixing the problems has nothing whatever to do with how it was explained afterwards, or how many days someone talked about a video, or any of the other mindless gibberish.

In spite of generally acting like self absorbed pompous a-holes, Congress does have a valid oversight function.

Embassies have been around for centuries. Embassies have been attacked before, stretching back for decades if not much longer. If the bureaucracy was capable of fixing this stuff it would have been fixed by now.

As far as the military goes, Congress has some role here too. E.g., Congress has the ability and authority to direct the military to establish rapid response teams to support embassies needing it and can provide the specific funding for that.

Will this Congress end up producing something of value regarding the concerns I expressed? IDK. But I do know sweeping this stuff under the rug, ignoring it, white washing it (however people would like it phrased) won't help.

IMO, the first part to fixing a problem is exposing it and understanding it. Perhaps they can just help with that. Right now my impression is that many in Congress are not buying the whole "we couldn't get there in time' thingy. I think it would be a significant step forward if they could sort that out.

Fern
 
All of the attacks on embassies over the years should give people a clue that many embassies are located in hostile territory and can never be totally safe.
Expecting them to be totally safe is unreasonable. This is nothing more than a right wing smear campaign against the Obama admin, which has now shifted it's focus to Hillary to try and derail her political career.
If Republicans are ever to regain the white house, I would suggest they switch to issues Americans actually care about. Jobs?
 
In spite of generally acting like self absorbed pompous a-holes, Congress does have a valid oversight function.

Then why aren't they performing that function? Because what they are doing now is not oversight, it's finger-pointing and conspiracy theorizing. Regardless of whether or not one thinks the finger-pointing and conspiracy-theorizing is valid, it's bloody well obvious to everyone here that Darrell Issa and his band of merry men are not doing this as an "oversight function".

Embassies have been around for centuries. Embassies have been attacked before, stretching back for decades if not much longer. If the bureaucracy was capable of fixing this stuff it would have been fixed by now.

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how what Issa is doing is going to fix a damned thing.

Care to tell us how figuring out whether the attack was blamed on a video or not, or whether someone used talking points or not, is going to save lives in the future? Good luck with that.

As far as the military goes, Congress has some role here too. E.g., Congress has the ability and authority to direct the military to establish rapid response teams to support embassies needing it and can provide the specific funding for that.

And for the Nth time, that is not what is happening here.

I don't know whom you think you're fooling with this bullshit, but I assure you that it is not me.
 
No frekin way. When unemployment is 10% we clearly need to focus on healthcare reform.

lol fail. Healthcare reform is indeed intimately related to the jobs and unemployment. Higher and higher healthcare costs are inextricably linked to lower middle class disposable income which is directly linked to lower spending on other parts of the economy, depressing economic growth and thereby hiring by god knows how much.
 
Dude, that things spits out 4,500 kinetic kill 20mm rounds per minute. Those things don't disappear; they WILL all come down, with enough kinetic energy to kill and maim through solid concrete walls no matter how acute the angle, over a range of several miles. Firing one in a city would be the height of irresponsibility and would possibly kill dozens of non-combatants in addition to the rockets or artillery shells. 😛 indeed! 😀 Although I can't think of a better way to make sure the neighborhood doesn't ignore a mortar or rocket team setting up! 😀

There are ongoing attempts to provide something similar with proximity-fused or time-fused shells, but I believe currently the dud rate is something like 2%, with a target of 0.5%. Even a score of high explosive shells a minute falling into civilian areas is not going to be acceptable. Until we can accomplish this with radar- or optically-guided high energy lasers, we aren't going to have an effective defense shield for embassies and diplomatic missions.

For the ship-borne CIWS systems, you are probably correct. However, for the systems that use this to shoot down incoming rockets and artillery, that potential problem does not exist.

Why you ask would an explosive 20mm bullet not be a concern? Each bullet has a fuse so that it self detonates in the air after a few seconds. I saw a good youtube video shot at night that shows this effect. These shells were specifically designed to mitigate this problem.

Also in the video they discussed just how effective this is, having hit something like 95% of incoming artillery and mortars. Neat stuff, to take an older system and adapt it to solve a new problem.

Here is a photo of a complete system, they can simply tow and place this on a base or forward operating area. Will try to find that vid.

Air_Defence_Raytheon_Centurion%203.jpg
 
sigh... you call it revenge, I call it justice.

If you pursue justice with emotion instead of intelligence, you get a situation where we kill 100k innocent civilians, thousands of our own, spend trillions of dollars, and have no end in sight... was that "justice" to you? We 9/11ed ourselves essentially with all of our own dead.. mission accomplished!

And yeah, I wasn't with Bush at the time because I have a brain and knew that every time we tried such nonsense in the past we ended up with miserable failure... history is there so we won't repeat it...
 
My question was for anyone claiming this "investigation" is anything but political.


As far as your solution is concerned, I don't know if you are being serious or not but would you be ok with any of the embassies in the US having that on their roof?

But realistically how well do you think that machine would work if protesters turned attackers where 50 yards from the building? I would also think a rocket launcher could easily take it out before any retaliation could be made.

I was not recommending this system seriously. It would practically vaporize humans and cause enormous amounts of damage to anything behind that person.
 
So people who want justice for the 4 Americans murdered are conspiracy theorists?

You truly are a moron.

It is hard to take those people seriously when they said nothing about any other embassy killing in the last 20 years...

If you want justice, I suggest you ask the next republican president to invade another random foreign country...
 

LOL! Next time 12 years of republican controlled congress and 8 years of Republican presidency destroys the worldwide economy, we should spend ALL our time fixing their mess, just to hand it over to them to do it again! We should DEFINITELY not touch a subject that the Republicans have never even attempted to address in the last 100 years!

LOL! Hilarious stuff!
 
So people who want justice for the 4 Americans murdered are conspiracy theorists?

You truly are a moron.

You just want to suck on your outrage lollipop, the outrage of having a black Democrat as President.

And you'll do & think anything to keep that alive, because to do otherwise would mean you'd have to look at yourself & the plethora of lies you adhere to so desperately in your need to feel some sort of superiority over your fellow humans.

It's pathetic.
 
lol fail. Healthcare reform is indeed intimately related to the jobs and unemployment. Higher and higher healthcare costs are inextricably linked to lower middle class disposable income which is directly linked to lower spending on other parts of the economy, depressing economic growth and thereby hiring by god knows how much.

Put down the Kool-aid and walk away.
 
You just want to suck on your outrage lollipop, the outrage of having a black Democrat as President.

And you'll do & think anything to keep that alive, because to do otherwise would mean you'd have to look at yourself & the plethora of lies you adhere to so desperately in your need to feel some sort of superiority over your fellow humans.

It's pathetic.

That's it baby, just play the race card when all else fails.
 
LOL! Next time 12 years of republican controlled congress and 8 years of Republican presidency destroys the worldwide economy, we should spend ALL our time fixing their mess, just to hand it over to them to do it again! We should DEFINITELY not touch a subject that the Republicans have never even attempted to address in the last 100 years!

LOL! Hilarious stuff!

so Bush made Obama blame youtube for the Benghazi attacks?
 
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