I'm talking about our resident genius csg who thinks that unions get hired to do road work instead of contractors.
I'm sorry..Do you realize how wrong that is? You think the only sector that improved infrastructure helps is construction? It helps literally every imaginable part of our country.
As far as the Heritage Foundation goes, is anyone surprised? The overwhelming consensus as for what pulled countries out of the Great Depression is large scale government spending. This was true across continents and across countries. Our infrastructure is in a shameful state of disrepair as it is, what better way to combine two needs than with economic stimulus centered on correcting what should have been corrected long ago?
LatchKeyDiaperChangerJohn has no idea what he's talking about once again. He doesn't realize that transporting goods involves trucks, airplanes, and boats. He must think that everything magically teleports.
I wonder if he realizes that not only does it help construction but it helps engineer, transportation, and the public.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Whoa there junior - nowhere did I say Unions had to be used. However they usually are due to the way contracts are let and the rules that apply. Yes, prevailing wages does push competition out and IMO, it's wrong. If a company can do a job for X normally but has to adjust the bid due to the wage BS then it's X+BS - which costs us tax payers more than it needed to.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Really? :roll: You mean construction jobs don't go to unions? They actually go to companies that are union? No F'n way man.... that's far out...
:roll:
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Somewhat, what is being cited here on this thread is the example of Japan who built up its infrastructure in response to a similar economic crisis.
And what we basically know is that Japan is still there limping along, but the claims exist that the economic stimulus package did not preform as well as some hoped or predicted.
And therefore the USA should not make the same mistake.
Somewhat flawed reasoning, we know Japan was in terrible shape, what we don't know is what would have happened if Japan would have done something else or nothing, and its one thing to be sick, and its quite another thing to be dead, which may well have happened with an collapsing economy and a resultant anarchy if Japan had not chosen to build infrastructure.
And what we basically know is that Japan is still there limping along, but the claims exist that the economic stimulus package did not preform as well as some hoped or predicted.
And therefore the USA should not make the same mistake.
Somewhat flawed reasoning, we know Japan was in terrible shape, what we don't know is what would have happened if Japan would have done something else or nothing, and its one thing to be sick, and its quite another thing to be dead, which may well have happened with an collapsing economy and a resultant anarchy if Japan had not chosen to build infrastructure.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
It's unfixable in the meantime there's a gentleman's agreement to get what they can for robber barons and union thugs.
After international loans dry up , and major civil unrest and the fascism that follows, we will war with some, nationalize debt and start over.
After international loans dry up , and major civil unrest and the fascism that follows, we will war with some, nationalize debt and start over.
It's mainly just a pay off to another group of unions(you know...the ones who get the road contracts by locking out other competition)
Right now you're babbling. You have know idea what you're talking about.
A set of plans and a set of special provisions is furnished to anyone interested. If you want to bid, you must be preapproved by the state. This involves filling out information showing you have the money and equipment to do what you plan on doing. This also involves a physical inventory, proof of insurance, bonds, and bank statements etc... They don't want some clown bidding to do a reconstruct of a 6 lane highway and the only thing he's done was residential driveways and sidewalks. There is NOTHING related to unions.
If you want to bid for a federal job you price that in like everyone else. It doesn't push anyone out because the engineer's estimate for the project which the contractor must be within 10% already has those wages built in. You're talking out of your ass again.
The reason we have these is so that the company doesn't hire a bunch of illegals at $5 hr. You have no idea all the due dilligence that goes on in a major project. The paperwork and research done will blow you away. Everything is done by the rules in a safe and efficient manner. Our guys are out there making sure the contractor doesn't pull a fast one on us and make sure everything is done to specification. There is no such thing as cheap and quality in construction. You picked the wrong topic to argue with me on. I do this for a living. You just through out generic cliche's that were all wrong.
You must have pulled that $60B number out of your nether orifice, because estimates of the cost run much, much higher, on the order of $170B to $350B/yr, depending on which ones are make permanent-
http://www.brookings.edu/artic...9useconomics_gale.aspx
Just 1 of 1.6M google hits for "cost of bush taxcuts"...
Taxcuts stimulate the economy? Not in ways that are meaningful except for those who actually received cuts-
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm...res_snapshots_20051026
Taxcuts at the top merely stimulate offshoring and speculation in stocks, real estate, and derivatives...
Ozoned
Diamond Member
- Mar 22, 2004
- 5,578
- 0
- 0
The scary thing is that Obama and Biden are planning on creating a national infrastructure investment bank, a new arm of the fed, operating in the same fractional manner. He could get and keep the economy rolling for years to come with this new debt. A bigger and better ponzi scheme than anybody could imagine.
Two thoughts here:
1.) We really do need to spend some of our tax dollars, current and/or future, on roads, bridges, etc.
2.) Illinois roads (and especially the ones in the Chicago area), and how those road projects are managed, are so F'ing bad that I don't want Obama - or anyone else he's pals with - anywhere near an Infrastructure improvement project.
Obama had years to crack down on IL mismanagement of road projects - particularly in the Chicagoland area - and he did not. In doing that, he just forfeited any goodwill on actually pulling this off.
Sorry, them's the breaks....
Chuck
1.) We really do need to spend some of our tax dollars, current and/or future, on roads, bridges, etc.
2.) Illinois roads (and especially the ones in the Chicago area), and how those road projects are managed, are so F'ing bad that I don't want Obama - or anyone else he's pals with - anywhere near an Infrastructure improvement project.
Obama had years to crack down on IL mismanagement of road projects - particularly in the Chicagoland area - and he did not. In doing that, he just forfeited any goodwill on actually pulling this off.
Sorry, them's the breaks....
Chuck
How were they mismanaged? I'm curious. We have people accusing us of mismanaging projects because they only see 3-4 guys working. People have no idea how staging works.
You act like Obama was the governor of Illinois, or the mayor of Chicago- he wasn't, he was just a junior state senator and then a junior US senator... he never had much power at all in the day to day operations of the state of Illinois, and none wrt Chicago...
An infrastructure program will help out and benefit everyone and by everyone we can count in those "non-union"companies who will no doubt use the updated and improved highways, bridges, railroads, expanded and updated telecommunication lines, etc... The notion that only unions will benefit and no one else will is truly grasping at straws. Is it the GOP mantra and talking point that this nation should rot into 3rd world shit hole status?
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
- 9,002
- 115
- 106
Lets look at it this way since we are a computing forum....a simple example that even those not very versed in politics or economics can understand. Has anyone here ever played SimCity? Try building a city without any infrastructure, or turning the expenditure for Transportation down way low for a period of time. Observe the effects. Still think infrastructure isn't a good investment? Well, congratulations...you are a retard.
Where is this money coming from? I can't stand this attitude of spending money we really don't have
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
- 9,002
- 115
- 106
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