Obama in favor of a Ban on concealed Carry

[Cattlegod]

If concealed carry is made criminal, then only criminals will carry concealed.

 

[SP33Demon]

Obama supported the Supreme Court ruling against DC's gun ban. The fact that he supports our 2nd Amendment rights is all you need to know, even if he did have an opposing view before the ruling.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: spidey07
I can respect your stance on the issues, but no issue is more important to me the upholding the bill of rights, specifically the 2nd most important one listed on those.

A president is sworn to uphold The Constitution, Obama cannot do that nor will he.

Proof?

Of course he doesn't have any. The Constitution is, unfortunately, kind of like the Bible in that people can pick and choose their own interpretations of it, and then claim that those who don't follow their personal interpretations are heretics, corrupter of the true faith, etc.

Historically speaking, the 2nd amendment applied ONLY to the federal govt. So a federal ban on CC would be un-Constitutional. Local bans have been common throughout US history (how many old Westerns have you seen where guns were banned in town?)

This.

I have never seen something as similar as radical Christian evangelicals and their belief structure for that book as I see in some people, mostly radical libertopians, and their interpretations of the Constitution as well as their complete and utter lack of acceptance that different people interpret the Constitution differently. Like the bible, it is not intended to be interpreted differently by anyone but is all of the time. The Constitution is not that much different.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: chess9
"Firearms were used to kill 30,143 people in the United States in 2005, the most recent year with complete data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.1 A total of 17,002 of these were suicides, 12,352 homicides, and 789 accidental firearm deaths. Nearly half of these deaths occurred in people under the age of 35. When we consider that there were also nearly 70,000 nonfatal injuries from firearms, we are left with the staggering fact that 100,000 men, women, and children were killed or wounded by firearms in the span of just one year. This translates into one death from firearms every 17 minutes and one death or nonfatal injury every 5 minutes."

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMe0802118

-Robert

So what you are saying is nearly 2/3rds of firearm deaths in this country were done by people to themselves? For that we need to ban C&C for the rest of country? Doesnt make any sense.

 

[brencat]

@PrinceofWands -- Awesome posting with all of the sources too in your rebutals

:thumbsup:

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: brencat

Originally posted by: chess9
Allowing people to carry concealed weapons is a horrible idea. We have too many hot heads on the streets as it is. Allowing them to carry a weapon is downright scary, which is why many police oppose the idea.

England has a very low violent crime rate and allows no hand guns unless you are specially licensed and the licenses are very hard to get. When a kid gets shot in London or Glasgow or Birmingham it's huge news. Here, we have so much gun violence you'd need a special edition of every big city newspaper to get the stories printed.

Hand guns = stupidity.

-Robert

Typical European B.S.. You people will never learn. We had to come to your rescue in the early days of WW2 with massive quantities of rifles and other weapons because your citizens were largely banned from owning them back then. And I suspect we'll likely have to come to your rescue again some day too.

And England's crime rate -- especially home invasions/theft -- has been increasing for years because criminals know your populace is disarmed and will go to jail if they defend themselves with deadly force during a crime.

That's stupid.

Have you been to Europe? And what is 'typical European B.S.' ? This goes both ways, if guns are legal, then invasions/theft will be accompanied by killings too.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Obama supported the Supreme Court ruling against DC's gun ban. The fact that he supports our 2nd Amendment rights is all you need to know, even if he did have an opposing view before the ruling.

He only supports parts of it. He must not be able to read the part that says WILL NOT INFRINGE UPON. He has infringed upon it many times, he comes from a state that had a handgun ban, his lies are full of bullshit in stating that he supports it.


People in this country don't seem to understand that the gun laws only affect the people that are trying to get and own guns legally. It doesn't change what criminals are going to do. It won't stop the flow of guns in this country, there will be plenty of black market peddlers getting guns from outside of the U.S.

I will not give up my gun. The day they try to make me, this might as well be the U.S.S.A.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Obama supported the Supreme Court ruling against DC's gun ban. The fact that he supports our 2nd Amendment rights is all you need to know, even if he did have an opposing view before the ruling.

He only supports parts of it. He must not be able to read the part that says WILL NOT INFRINGE UPON. He has infringed upon it many times, he comes from a state that had a handgun ban, his lies are full of bullshit in stating that he supports it.


People in this country don't seem to understand that the gun laws only affect the people that are trying to get and own guns legally. It doesn't change what criminals are going to do. It won't stop the flow of guns in this country, there will be plenty of black market peddlers getting guns from outside of the U.S.

I will not give up my gun. The day they try to make me, this might as well be the U.S.S.A.

I do agree with this statement, but the only part that I never understood is why it makes sense while at the same time things like silencers for handguns are either banned or are much more difficult to get than the hand gun itself in most states. Such things would be very useful when committing crimes, but we very rarely see/read/hear about criminals in possession of them.

Can someone explain this to me?

*edit*

Keep in mind that I am talking about suppressors that are the real deal here and really work. Not the cheap shit that Joe Shmoe tries to forge in his garage.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Obama supported the Supreme Court ruling against DC's gun ban. The fact that he supports our 2nd Amendment rights is all you need to know, even if he did have an opposing view before the ruling.

He only supports parts of it. He must not be able to read the part that says WILL NOT INFRINGE UPON. He has infringed upon it many times, he comes from a state that had a handgun ban, his lies are full of bullshit in stating that he supports it.


People in this country don't seem to understand that the gun laws only affect the people that are trying to get and own guns legally. It doesn't change what criminals are going to do. It won't stop the flow of guns in this country, there will be plenty of black market peddlers getting guns from outside of the U.S.

I will not give up my gun. The day they try to make me, this might as well be the U.S.S.A.

Do you honestly think Obama is going to federally take your gun away? Even if he wanted to, it wouldn't happen.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Obama supported the Supreme Court ruling against DC's gun ban. The fact that he supports our 2nd Amendment rights is all you need to know, even if he did have an opposing view before the ruling.

So he flip flopped?

I'm convinced!

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: Thump553
Doesn't the NRA still own Congress? With all the really important issues today, do you really think a President Obama is going to waste time and political capital to abolish concealed carry? This is just another example of your fear mongering about Obama.

I voiced similar sentiments in a similar thread. If Obama and a democratic congress make overtures towards banning CCW then I'll change my last name to ocho cinco.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Obama supported the Supreme Court ruling against DC's gun ban. The fact that he supports our 2nd Amendment rights is all you need to know, even if he did have an opposing view before the ruling.

He only supports parts of it. He must not be able to read the part that says WILL NOT INFRINGE UPON. He has infringed upon it many times, he comes from a state that had a handgun ban, his lies are full of bullshit in stating that he supports it.


People in this country don't seem to understand that the gun laws only affect the people that are trying to get and own guns legally. It doesn't change what criminals are going to do. It won't stop the flow of guns in this country, there will be plenty of black market peddlers getting guns from outside of the U.S.

I will not give up my gun. The day they try to make me, this might as well be the U.S.S.A.

Do you honestly think Obama is going to federally take your gun away? Even if he wanted to, it wouldn't happen.

Well the 9th circut court has already ruled that gun ownership is a collective right not an individual right so all Obama has to do is appoint a few judeges to the USSC that agree.

n Silveira, which challenged California's restrictions on assault weapons, Judge Stephen Reinhardt wrote that the Second Amendment applies to militias and guarantees a collective right to bear arms, but doesn't guarantee individuals' rights.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1080858050545

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Obama supported the Supreme Court ruling against DC's gun ban. The fact that he supports our 2nd Amendment rights is all you need to know, even if he did have an opposing view before the ruling.

He only supports parts of it. He must not be able to read the part that says WILL NOT INFRINGE UPON. He has infringed upon it many times, he comes from a state that had a handgun ban, his lies are full of bullshit in stating that he supports it.


People in this country don't seem to understand that the gun laws only affect the people that are trying to get and own guns legally. It doesn't change what criminals are going to do. It won't stop the flow of guns in this country, there will be plenty of black market peddlers getting guns from outside of the U.S.

I will not give up my gun. The day they try to make me, this might as well be the U.S.S.A.

Do you honestly think Obama is going to federally take your gun away? Even if he wanted to, it wouldn't happen.

Well the 9th circut court has already ruled that gun ownership is a collective right not an individual right so all Obama has to do is appoint a few judeges to the USSC that agree.

n Silveira, which challenged California's restrictions on assault weapons, Judge Stephen Reinhardt wrote that the Second Amendment applies to militias and guarantees a collective right to bear arms, but doesn't guarantee individuals' rights.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1080858050545

And all that would lead to is armed revolution. He's not that stupid.

 

[AstroManLuca]

I admit I'm concerned with Obama's past support of various gun bans, but those were years ago. And yes, I understand that means he "flip-flopped." But hey, at least he flip-flopped in the right direction.

I don't think gun control is one of the things the Democrats are going to try to push to a great extent. It's not a terribly popular issue even among Democrats, and there's no need for them to risk their support by pushing it. I have always voted Democrat and I will in this election as well, but if they try to push more gun control then I will stop voting for them.

The other thing is that you sort of have to decide whether to vote for the candidate who supports the 2nd amendment, or all of the others. The Republicans of the last 8 years have shown that they don't much care for the other parts of the Constitution, and while the 2nd amendment is an important part, it's not the whole thing. If the GOP decides to start respecting people's individual liberties while continuing to support the 2nd amendment, I might even consider voting for them. But they seem more interested in promoting a police state.

 

[Xavier434]

First of all, Obama's future plans when it comes to this topic are largely speculative.

Secondly, he is not dumb. He understands your arguments well enough to not do anything radical.

Third, I highly doubt that this is anywhere near the top of his priority list regardless of how he feels anyways. The vast number of other major problems going on right now will keep your guns safe if nothing else. I swear that some of you guys fear monger so much that you end up scaring yourselves half to death for no reason.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
First of all, Obama's future plans when it comes to this topic are largely speculative.

Secondly, he is not dumb. He understands your arguments well enough to not do anything radical.

Third, I highly doubt that this is anywhere near the top of his priority list regardless of how he feels anyways. The vast number of other major problems going on right now will keep your guns safe if nothing else. I swear that some of you guys fear monger so much that you end up scaring yourselves half to death for no reason.

Why is it that when John Roberts and Sam Alito (2 very intelligent men who understand the pro-choice argument) are at a Supreme Court hearing, the left and Planned Parenthood fearmonger about the end of Roe v Wade and back alley abortions, while you give Obama the benefit of the doubt?

I guess its impossible for Obama to do wrong.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Obama supported the Supreme Court ruling against DC's gun ban. The fact that he supports our 2nd Amendment rights is all you need to know, even if he did have an opposing view before the ruling.

He only supports parts of it. He must not be able to read the part that says WILL NOT INFRINGE UPON. He has infringed upon it many times, he comes from a state that had a handgun ban, his lies are full of bullshit in stating that he supports it.


People in this country don't seem to understand that the gun laws only affect the people that are trying to get and own guns legally. It doesn't change what criminals are going to do. It won't stop the flow of guns in this country, there will be plenty of black market peddlers getting guns from outside of the U.S.

I will not give up my gun. The day they try to make me, this might as well be the U.S.S.A.

Do you honestly think Obama is going to federally take your gun away? Even if he wanted to, it wouldn't happen.

Well the 9th circut court has already ruled that gun ownership is a collective right not an individual right so all Obama has to do is appoint a few judeges to the USSC that agree.

n Silveira, which challenged California's restrictions on assault weapons, Judge Stephen Reinhardt wrote that the Second Amendment applies to militias and guarantees a collective right to bear arms, but doesn't guarantee individuals' rights.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1080858050545

And all that would lead to is armed revolution. He's not that stupid.

Who do you think appointed those judges? Clinton and Carter.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Obama supported the Supreme Court ruling against DC's gun ban. The fact that he supports our 2nd Amendment rights is all you need to know, even if he did have an opposing view before the ruling.

He only supports parts of it. He must not be able to read the part that says WILL NOT INFRINGE UPON. He has infringed upon it many times, he comes from a state that had a handgun ban, his lies are full of bullshit in stating that he supports it.


People in this country don't seem to understand that the gun laws only affect the people that are trying to get and own guns legally. It doesn't change what criminals are going to do. It won't stop the flow of guns in this country, there will be plenty of black market peddlers getting guns from outside of the U.S.

I will not give up my gun. The day they try to make me, this might as well be the U.S.S.A.

Do you honestly think Obama is going to federally take your gun away? Even if he wanted to, it wouldn't happen.

He's quite OK with taking tax dollars from people he doesn't like.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: deftron


I can respect your stance on the issues.

However, I do consider the 1st Amendment more important than the 2nd.
It is, after all, the First one.

McCain has supported or introduced many peices of legislation that endanger that right,
including:

Filtering software on Library computers
not against the 1st

Increased fines for TV obsenities, in response to the Janet Jackson Super Bowl thing
not against the 1st
A Constitutional amendmet banning flag burning and desecration
most likely against the 1st

Considering reversing source confidentiality for journalists.
1st doesn't apply here, but confidentaility for sources must be maintained



A president is sworn to uphold The Constitution, McCain cannot do that nor will he.

See bolded. MY rights are mine, the only instance you listed that goes against the first is flag burning which I hate the concept I can support the right. Of the points you listed only the flag one impacts my god given rights.

a constitutional amendment banning flag burning would not be against the first. it would be against the concept of free speech, but it would inherently modify the first amendment.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: deftron


I can respect your stance on the issues.

However, I do consider the 1st Amendment more important than the 2nd.
It is, after all, the First one.

McCain has supported or introduced many peices of legislation that endanger that right,
including:

Filtering software on Library computers
not against the 1st

Increased fines for TV obsenities, in response to the Janet Jackson Super Bowl thing
not against the 1st
A Constitutional amendmet banning flag burning and desecration
most likely against the 1st

Considering reversing source confidentiality for journalists.
1st doesn't apply here, but confidentaility for sources must be maintained



A president is sworn to uphold The Constitution, McCain cannot do that nor will he.

See bolded. MY rights are mine, the only instance you listed that goes against the first is flag burning which I hate the concept I can support the right. Of the points you listed only the flag one impacts my god given rights.

a constitutional amendment banning flag burning would not be against the first. it would be against the concept of free speech, but it would inherently modify the first amendment.

ain't broke, don't fuck w/ it

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Obama supported the Supreme Court ruling against DC's gun ban. The fact that he supports our 2nd Amendment rights is all you need to know, even if he did have an opposing view before the ruling.

He only supports parts of it. He must not be able to read the part that says WILL NOT INFRINGE UPON. He has infringed upon it many times, he comes from a state that had a handgun ban, his lies are full of bullshit in stating that he supports it.


People in this country don't seem to understand that the gun laws only affect the people that are trying to get and own guns legally. It doesn't change what criminals are going to do. It won't stop the flow of guns in this country, there will be plenty of black market peddlers getting guns from outside of the U.S.

I will not give up my gun. The day they try to make me, this might as well be the U.S.S.A.

Do you honestly think Obama is going to federally take your gun away? Even if he wanted to, it wouldn't happen.

In my opinion I feel he would try. His home state's biggest city had a hndgun ban, which the Federal Gov should have stopped the day they did it. Multiple cities had handgun bans, DC even after Heller still has an emergency ban. I am afraid that if, huge if, Obama becomes POTUS, the way he can make his words turn from shit to gold in the publics eyes, can and will affect the publics judgement.

I for one feel we should be protecting the constituition. Lets start at the bottom, the foundation that are country was built on and fix the problems.

Why would we not fix the foundation of the house but fix the leaky roof?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
I highly doubt that Obama, even with a Dem congress, will be able to even remotely ban CC. If CC is an issue to you, you should be focusing on your state politicians.

Seeing as there a SUPREME COURT PRECEDENT,
anyone would have tough time trying to do that