Obama... I'm speechless. I literally am speechless.

[irishScott]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...led-by-clapper-who-denied-spying-to-congress/

First it's "fire the shotgun through the door" Biden for it's gun control comission, now it's Clapper (the guy who was caught on camera bald-faced lying to congress) for his NSA "reform."

...
...

THE FUCK?! Seriously I cannot divine how, in this or any of a series of parallel universes, he thought this was a good idea. Is he just the weakest President in history, the dumbest, have fucking aliens taken control of his mind because it would take a perspective as divorced from humanity as an actual alien for this to make any sense... unless he's intentionally trying to wreck his presidency?

 

[2timer]

An administration official stonewalling on classified information??? My gosh, that's never been done before!!!! WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TOO?

 

[irishScott]

An administration official stonewalling on classified information??? My gosh, that's never been done before!!!! WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TOO?

He didn't just stonewall (refusal to answer questions), he blatantly lied (answered questions with false information).

And I fail to see how someone who has been plastered all over the media as doing exactly that is a good choice to lead a reform commission. Even if it is just a whitewash effort, it's about the most obvious whitewash effort in history. The cover on this isn't even paper-thin, it's completely non-existent. That is politically stupid. He couldn't even find a suitable yes-man who's name and face haven't been on the media for lying to congress?

 

[2timer]

The PRISM program was classified, so lying about it existing was a form of denial, aka stonewalling. His answer wasn't to protect wrongdoing, the motivation was comparable to stonewalling to protect highly sensitive information.

 

[irishScott]

The PRISM program was classified, so lying about it existing was a form of denial, aka stonewalling. His answer wasn't to protect wrongdoing, the motivation was comparable to stonewalling to protect highly sensitive information.

Letting that point slide for the sake of argument, his reputation is what it is. Exactly how is he a good choice, from any perspective, to lead this commission? And honestly after watching how Biden completely bungled Obama's gun control efforts, I'm extremely skeptical that Obama just has some unforeseen insight into the matter.

Unless Obama's intent is merely to say "fuck you" to both the American public and a sizable chunk of his own party.

 

[2timer]

Letting that point slide for the sake of argument, his reputation is what it is. Exactly how is he a good choice, from any perspective, to lead this commission? And honestly after watching how Biden completely bungled Obama's gun control efforts, I'm extremely skeptical that Obama just has some unforeseen insight into the matter.

Unless Obama's intent is merely to say "fuck you" to both the American public and a sizable chunk of his own party.

Don't be ludicrous, Obama's intent isn't to say "Fuck you" to the American people, he is merely tapping a capable underling who has knowledge of the program and who can be a conduit between the president and the commission. Why are you upset screaming and red in the face? This is merely payback for all the years the Bush administration did the exact same bullshit, except with WMD, torture, and other repugnant policies.

 

[irishScott]

Don't be ludicrous, Obama's intent isn't to say "Fuck you" to the American people, he is merely tapping a capable underling who has knowledge of the program and who can be a conduit between the president and the commission. Why are you upset screaming and red in the face? This is merely payback for all the years the Bush administration did the exact same bullshit, except with WMD, torture, and other repugnant policies.

I'm not being ludicrous, Obama is. If someone holds up their middle finger to me I'm not going to assume they're telling me I'm "number 1". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXMPd1A0Zg

Yes, knowledge of the program and absolutely no demonstrated interest in "reforming" it, via additional oversight or anything else Obama mentioned in his little speech. Quite the opposite in fact. Yeah, I'm sure Obama's reforms will be strong and long-lasting with this guy at the head. Fox running the hen house.

As for Bush, two wrongs make a right now? And please tell me how furthering programs pioneered by Republicans is "payback" for Democrats.

 

[IGBT]

for gawd sakes he's just reading the teleprompter and signing the surrender papers.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Don't be ludicrous, Obama's intent isn't to say "Fuck you" to the American people, he is merely tapping a capable underling who has knowledge of the program and who can be a conduit between the president and the commission. Why are you upset screaming and red in the face? This is merely payback for all the years the Bush administration did the exact same bullshit, except with WMD, torture, and other repugnant policies.

Payback? That's wonderful. Spy on and lie to Americans so Obama can get even, or is that just you?

"Yeah that Republican was awful so let the Democrat be the same".

No wonder we're screwed.

Oh, that was a member of Congress he was lying to, not some third rate blog. If he was under oath he perjured himself.

 

[hans030390]

The PRISM program was classified, so lying about it existing was a form of denial, aka stonewalling. His answer wasn't to protect wrongdoing, the motivation was comparable to stonewalling to protect highly sensitive information.

I am going to ignore that anyone in Clapper's shoes would have likely done the same thing regardless of the type of person they are, given your explanation, because otherwise I don't have much of a reason to get angry!

Hmm, hmm...Well, at least Obama picked him, so it's angry time!

God damn...Americans are WAY too quick to become hysterical at anything, big or small, reasonable or not.

BTW, Clapper did apologize and give a rational explanation behind why he answered the way he did. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now (seriously, you people need to calm the fuck down before you start screaming about things).

 

[irishScott]

I am going to ignore that anyone in Clapper's shoes would have likely done the same thing regardless of the type of person they are, given your explanation, because otherwise I don't have much of a reason to get angry!

Hmm, hmm...Well, at least Obama picked him, so it's angry time!

God damn...Americans are WAY too quick to become hysterical at anything, big or small, reasonable or not.

BTW, Clapper did apologize and give a rational explanation behind why he answered the way he did. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now (seriously, you people need to calm the fuck down before you start screaming about things).

Apparently Snowden wouldn't have done what he did.

He apologized when he was called out by an illegal leak, and would likely never have done so otherwise; and IIRC his first excuse was that he "misinterpreted the question", which is utter bullshit (unless he's a complete moron). In any case, the NSA is clearly in damage control mode and is revealing the absolute minimum they believe they can get away with. Given Clapper's apparent mentality, unless he really is a sheep hiding in a wolfskin (an extreme rarity) I'm not giving him the benefit of anything.

Yeah, Americans expect their politicians to do their jobs. Perhaps irrationally so, but we expect it nonetheless and get pissed when they don't. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

 

[fskimospy]

Apparently Snowden wouldn't have done what he did.

He apologized when he was called out by an illegal leak, and would likely never have done so otherwise; and IIRC his first excuse was that he "misinterpreted the question", which is utter bullshit (unless he's a complete moron). In any case, the NSA is clearly in damage control mode and is revealing the absolute minimum they believe they can get away with. Given Clapper's apparent mentality, unless he really is a sheep hiding in a wolfskin (an extreme rarity) I'm not giving him the benefit of anything.

Yeah, Americans expect their politicians to do their jobs. Perhaps irrationally so, but we expect it nonetheless and get pissed when they don't. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

What are you so angry about? It would have been a crime for Clapper to have told the truth in that forum, and even refusing to answer would have been tantamount to disclosing that information.

If you don't like those programs that's fine, join the club. Thinking that guy is somehow compromised because he did what anyone would be expected and required to do in that situation is ridiculous though.

 

[TerryMathews]

The PRISM program was classified, so lying about it existing was a form of denial, aka stonewalling. His answer wasn't to protect wrongdoing, the motivation was comparable to stonewalling to protect highly sensitive information.

So then you agree that Reagan-Poindexter-North did nothing wrong during Iran-Contra, right?

 

[TerryMathews]

Don't be ludicrous, Obama's intent isn't to say "Fuck you" to the American people, he is merely tapping a capable underling who has knowledge of the program and who can be a conduit between the president and the commission. Why are you upset screaming and red in the face? This is merely payback for all the years the Bush administration did the exact same bullshit, except with WMD, torture, and other repugnant policies.

A) I'll take torturing our enemies vs spying on our citizens, any day.

B) Obama was elected because he was supposed to be better than Bush. Evidently, you believe he isn't?

C) WTF? Payback? That's sound governance if I've ever heard it.

D) WMDs were found in Iraq. Nuclear weapons were not.

 

[Genx87]

Ahh just like the time when Holder was instructed to investigate Holder.

 

[LostPassword]

that NSA press conference was complete BS. clapper as the head guy to investigate himself is a joke.
spying on every american. spying for the dea is already abuse. I can't take this guy serious anymore. I can't believe I voted for him. if only snowden had leaked before the 2012 election...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

What are you so angry about? It would have been a crime for Clapper to have told the truth in that forum, and even refusing to answer would have been tantamount to disclosing that information.

If you don't like those programs that's fine, join the club. Thinking that guy is somehow compromised because he did what anyone would be expected and required to do in that situation is ridiculous though.

"I can't confirm or deny for statutory reasons".

Instead he lied and he'll be tapped as one as who is trustworthy. There's no reason for trust.

 

[BlueWolf47]

If the OP was speachless then how did he start this thread.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If the OP was speachless then how did he start this thread.

Well he typed of course.

Salon article about Mr "Trust Me"

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/12/how_james_clapper_will_get_away_with_perjury/

 

[fskimospy]

"I can't confirm or deny for statutory reasons".

Instead he lied and he'll be tapped as one as who is trustworthy. There's no reason for trust.

Everyone would immediately take that to be a yes. Terrible idea. I would have fired him just for that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Everyone would immediately take that to be a yes. Terrible idea. I would have fired him just for that.

That's too bad because that's the proper answer. Perjury isn't acceptable especially when there is another legal option. Political expediency is no excuse.

 

[fskimospy]

That's too bad because that's the proper answer. Perjury isn't acceptable especially when there is another legal option. Political expediency is no excuse.

Actually it is totally acceptable. No court in the land would convict him for protecting classified programs in a public forum.

 

[michal1980]

Actually it is totally acceptable. No court in the land would convict him for protecting classified programs in a public forum.

but they would for perjury.

Then again your nothing but obama's spokesmen. So whats the point of listening to anything you say.

 

[fskimospy]

but they would for perjury.

Then again your nothing but obama's spokesmen. So whats the point of listening to anything you say.

No, they sure wouldn't.

As for the rest, physician, heal thyself.

 

[TerryMathews]

Actually it is totally acceptable. No court in the land would convict him for protecting classified programs in a public forum.

Have any case law to back your assertion? Because your crossing several different jurisdictions here since he was testifying before Congress.

The appropriate answer would have been for the Intelligence Oversight Committee to have been read in on the programs, since they have top secret clearance, so that they could waive their respective members off of a sensitive but legal program.

Since the Obama administration failed to do that, there is only one conclusion to draw. They knew the programs would not stand up to scrutiny.