Obama: "If I don't have this done in 3 years"

[soundforbjt]

True... Reagan's policies worked and Obama's don't.

Maybe Obama needs to do what Ronnie did and raise taxes 11 times.

 

[Budmantom]

True... Reagan's policies worked and Obama's don't.

Please don't compare the two.

 

[ProfJohn]

Maybe Obama needs to do what Ronnie did and raise taxes 11 times.

Get your talking points straight.

 

[Jhhnn]

still makin' excuses...

Please address post #52 of this thread, kind sir.

Otherwise, you're just shilling, sloganeering, spreading disinformation, commonly referred to as lying & distorting.

 

[werepossum]

Wait, do you actually believe this? Tell me you aren't this dumb.

There's some truth to that, but it's undeniable that Obama has less freedom and fewer tools at his disposal than did Reagan. Thirty years of outsourcing and debt make this problem harder to solve. Even a great leader like Reagan would find this problem very hard to fix, and his tools - mainly tax cuts and building up defense - would be much less effective today. Most consumer spending sends a big portion of that money to China, Mexico, etc. And defense has gotten much more expensive per man-hour and much of it is outsourced, so ordering a trillion dollars' worth of hardware doesn't provide nearly as many jobs, even adjusted for inflation, as it did in Reagan's day.

 

[werepossum]

Apples and Aardvarks, plus blatant sloganeering on your part.

High unemployment of the early 1980's was largely a result of the FRB efforts to tame inflation by raising interest rates-

http://www.fusioninvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/usa-unemployment-vs-interest-rates.png

The current situation is nothing of the kind, obviously. Unlike earlier recessions, interest rates & unemployment have moved in opposite directions. Like the 1930's & the japanese experience in the wake of their own housing bubble, this is a balance sheet recession, created by the over extension of credit, an exercise in reckless greed by lenders. The enormity of it makes it extremely dangerous.

Normal monetary controls, the tools of the FRB, have very little effect because they can't reduce rates below zero. Bernanke has done all he can, and his impatience with Congress is obvious.

Obama? He can't act without Congress, and the party of No! has hobbled any honest efforts. Expect the situation to get worse. Well, unless you're a member of the financial elite, in which case it'll get better.

Since you insist on taking yourself seriously, you should at least educate yourself on the period. We had many of the same problems then that we have now, with real estate taking two nose dives, energy prices skyrocketing, and a lot of banks failing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis

As bad? Probably not. But similar and in a few ways worse? Absolutely.

 

[amdhunter]

Mighty impressive reasoning there. If I piss you off, that's a good thing. Maybe you'll take a look at yourself & what you believe, figure out why you're mad rather than just being mad.

Righties aren't very good at that sort of thing, making them easy to manipulate with emotional appeal. You don't even realize you're being manipulated, do you?

Do you want to make a quick $200?

 

[ProfJohn]

Apples and Aardvarks, plus blatant sloganeering on your part.

High unemployment of the early 1980's was largely a result of the FRB efforts to tame inflation by raising interest rates-

http://www.fusioninvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/usa-unemployment-vs-interest-rates.png

Notice that the unemployment line was above 5% from 1974 onwards.

That means that Reagan was given an economy that was in its 6th year of high unemployment.

Obama took over an economy that was at 5% just 3 years ago.

In effect Reagan started in a much deeper hole and had to deal with employment problems that had existed for far longer than what Obama is dealing with.

Just 3 years and 4 months ago unemployment was 4.9%.
All Obama had to do is put people back to work to make progress.

Reagan took over an economy that hadn't seen 5% since 1973, 7 years. Which means he couldn't just put people back to work because they're hadn't been jobs in years. Instead Reagan had to create an environment in which news jobs had to be created from scratch.

 

[ProfJohn]

Hey libs, how much longer will it take before we see progress from Obama's policies?

 

[Jhhnn]

Since you insist on taking yourself seriously, you should at least educate yourself on the period. We had many of the same problems then that we have now, with real estate taking two nose dives, energy prices skyrocketing, and a lot of banks failing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis

As bad? Probably not. But similar and in a few ways worse? Absolutely.

Willful blindness. We didn't have this-

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/classic-case-shiller-hosuing-price-chart-updated/

Real estate prices did fluctuate in the 80's, but they didn't take off like a rocket that failed to reach escape velocity...

We didn't have this, either-

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article30117.html

reulting in this- fig1-

http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2011/08/on-private-debt.html

But households are in far worse shape now than in the 1930s, with a peak debt level that is two and a half times as high as it was in 1930. That’s why the crisis now is manifesting itself in stagnant consumer demand. It doesn’t involve the same plunge into deflation as the Great Depression, but it does imply a more drawn out deleveraging, because it’s much harder for households to reduce debt than it is for businesses. Businesses can get out of debt by going bankrupt, sacking workers, and stopping investment. Households have to live with the shame of bankruptcy and the limitations it imposes on behaviour in future, they can’t sack the kids, and it’s impossible to stop consuming completely. So we may face a far more drawn out process of deleveraging than the Great Depression.

 

[Doppel]

Quick note. I'm not, nor should anybody, blame Obama for the entirety of the mess we're in. However, he voluntarily owned it. He's said as much. He's demonized others for things he's done and he's come up with projections that were not worth their weight in paper, time and time again. And that's why he's failed.

 

[dank69]

Hey libs, how much longer will it take before we see progress from Obama's policies?

Maybe never, your GOP may have dug us too deep to recover. We're throwing trillions just to try to stop the bleeding.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Hey libs, how much longer will it take before we see progress from Obama's policies?

Well the only piece of legeslation that he has been able to squeeze through the sphincter that is the HOR has been UHC and most of its provisions won't kick in until 2013.

So the first real progress will be seen when the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire next year.

The Republicans have done a great job of obstruction, allowing the disasterous policies of GWB to continue to further devestate the economy.

 

[Jhhnn]

Notice that the unemployment line was above 5% from 1974 onwards.

That means that Reagan was given an economy that was in its 6th year of high unemployment.

Obama took over an economy that was at 5% just 3 years ago.

In effect Reagan started in a much deeper hole and had to deal with employment problems that had existed for far longer than what Obama is dealing with.

Just 3 years and 4 months ago unemployment was 4.9%.
All Obama had to do is put people back to work to make progress.

Reagan took over an economy that hadn't seen 5% since 1973, 7 years. Which means he couldn't just put people back to work because they're hadn't been jobs in years. Instead Reagan had to create an environment in which news jobs had to be created from scratch.

Nice soft shoe & obfuscation. What you attribute to Reagan was actually the result of the FRB lowering interest rates. That's not working today, is it? Interest rates are at record lows, and have been for some while.

That's because the causes of the downturn are entirely different. Back then, high interest rates intended to curb inflation did what they were designed to do, at the cost of high unemployment. There were no high interest rates leading to the current unemployment situation- there was a credit bubble & collapse, which is a whole different matter.

Like most modern Republicans, you somehow want to disown GWB, pretend that his policies were the logical extension of Reagan's. The S&L collapse of that era was just a tune-up for the biggest score in the history of finance, the Ownership Society.

 

[Dude111]

The Bush legacy continues in the men who followed. Nothing has changed.

Nope nothing....... If anything things have gotton WORSE!! (Which is what he wants)

I tried to talk to a friend about Obama and i quickly ENDED THE DISCUSSION!

He says "Congress is blocking him from doing anything cause they want him out of office"

HE IS THE PRESIDENT,I DONT THINK ANYONE CAN STOP HIM FROM MAKING GOOD CHANGES IN THIS COUNTRY IF HE REALLY WANTED TO!!

 

[Jhhnn]

Nope nothing....... If anything things have gotton WORSE!! (Which is what he wants)

I tried to talk to a friend about Obama and i quickly ENDED THE DISCUSSION!

He says "Congress is blocking him from doing anything cause they want him out of office"

HE IS THE PRESIDENT,I DONT THINK ANYONE CAN STOP HIM FROM MAKING GOOD CHANGES IN THIS COUNTRY IF HE REALLY WANTED TO!!

You really needed to pay attention in civics class...

 

[Mursilis]

Nope nothing....... If anything things have gotton WORSE!! (Which is what he wants)

I tried to talk to a friend about Obama and i quickly ENDED THE DISCUSSION!

He says "Congress is blocking him from doing anything cause they want him out of office"

HE IS THE PRESIDENT,I DONT THINK ANYONE CAN STOP HIM FROM MAKING GOOD CHANGES IN THIS COUNTRY IF HE REALLY WANTED TO!!

Nobody knows you're a fool until you post.

 

[Mursilis]

Quick note. I'm not, nor should anybody, blame Obama for the entirety of the mess we're in. However, he voluntarily owned it. He's said as much. He's demonized others for things he's done and he's come up with projections that were not worth their weight in paper, time and time again. And that's why he's failed.

Essentially this. Dems run on the platform that the gov't is the answer to all of society's problems, and should thus be judged on thier failure to fix all of society's problems. You can't spend all year telling the kids there's a Santa Claus, and then fail to deliver the goods on Christmas morning.

 

[Ausm]

2 years and 9 months in power and the economy is getting WORSE!

If his policies were working the economy would be improving or at minimum staying the same.

BTW if we fall into another recession Obama will lose by 10+ points.

It took 30+ years to fuck this economy up do you really think it's going to turn around in less then 3 years?

 

[PokerGuy]

do you really think it's going to turn around in less then 3 years?

Have you seen any signs of anything "turning around"? I think it's pretty apparent that instead of things "turning around" for the better they are getting worse, and we're 3 years into this regime. At what point is it fair to say "hey, how come we're not at least heading in the right direction?"

 

[Jhhnn]

Have you seen any signs of anything "turning around"? I think it's pretty apparent that instead of things "turning around" for the better they are getting worse, and we're 3 years into this regime. At what point is it fair to say "hey, how come we're not at least heading in the right direction?"

The short answer? "Republicans"

They want desperately to say it's not their baby, kinda like the Maury show, but it's growing up to be the spittin' image of its great grandfather, the crash of '29... It's in the genes. Too bad there's not a DNA test for it.

It's the natural result of self regulated international banking in a free trade environment, the consequences of which are still unfolding.

 

[fskimospy]

Have you seen any signs of anything "turning around"? I think it's pretty apparent that instead of things "turning around" for the better they are getting worse, and we're 3 years into this regime. At what point is it fair to say "hey, how come we're not at least heading in the right direction?"

Uhmmmm, when Obama took office the US GDP was shrinking at more than a 6% annualized rate and the US was losing around 600,000 jobs a month. Last quarter it grew at a 1.3% rate and last month it gained 100,000 jobs. While this is certainly not the pace of economic recovery anyone would like, the idea that things are getting worse is breathtakingly stupid.

I mean did you forget just how badly fucked up the country was? Are memories really this short?

 

[werepossum]

Willful blindness. We didn't have this-

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/classic-case-shiller-hosuing-price-chart-updated/

Real estate prices did fluctuate in the 80's, but they didn't take off like a rocket that failed to reach escape velocity...

We didn't have this, either-

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article30117.html

reulting in this- fig1-

http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2011/08/on-private-debt.html

I think the increased debt, both household and nation state, is the defining factor that makes this recession worse than the late 70s/early 80s. Many if not most economic factors were worse then, but going into this with crushing debt really limits what one can do to fix it or even survive it. Having your house appreciate 100% and then drop 50% shouldn't be a problem, but if you've refinanced and pulled out some or all of that other 50% appreciation, now you're locked into that house, whether or not you can now afford it, unless you have enough savings to write a check for the balance. Same thing for nations; you can spend enough to keep things from getting worse, unless you have so much debt that the debt itself is a crushing problem.

Essentially this. Dems run on the platform that the gov't is the answer to all of society's problems, and should thus be judged on thier failure to fix all of society's problems. You can't spend all year telling the kids there's a Santa Claus, and then fail to deliver the goods on Christmas morning.

Exactly right, and a good, concise, pithy example.

 

[Jhhnn]

I mean did you forget just how badly fucked up the country was? Are memories really this short?

Yes they are, sad to say. Witness the Repubs taking back the HOR in 2010.

 

[IGBT]

your obama is holding the economy hostage to failed economic liberal dogma that relies on "gun to your head" enforcement and regulation.