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Obama hates whistleblowers

While there are a hundred reasons I prefer Obama for one major criticism of him, there are major criticisms of him and this is one.

The basic point is: President Obama has taken more actions against whistleblowers than all other US Presidents - combined.

This is not the policy his base prefers, far from it.

Now the discussion needs to go to whistleblowing in general, IMO.

There is a tradeoff in governing, between 'legitimate state secrets' - citizens don't need tax information leaked to the public, we don't need codes to security at airport gates released to enemies of the US - and the fact that the 'vast machine' that can be abusive
- we can use the extreme example of the German government's Holocaust being secret, but we can also use milder examples such as the government involved in corrupt activities, or lying to the American people about war (Vietnam, WMD in Iraq) - can well serve the public interest by exposing corruption; massive government corrupt activities require many to keep secrets covering them up, and many feel revealing wrongs to the public is right.

And of course it gets political. One person's saying that revealing Watergate or the Pentagon Papers has another person calling the whistleblowers 'traitors'.

But there is a basic support for whistleblowing of wrongdoing, and it's less political when what's revealed in criminal - which is why a 'whistleblower protection act' was passed.

But it's following that 'protection' that the government's attacks on whislleblowers is at a record level, so it's not protecting them very well.

This is one of those areas that makes clear Obama isn't really 'the candidate of progressives', but rather 'less bad overall than the Republicans'; but many from all sides of politics can hopefully agree that this is a problem area and we should have more respect for whistleblowers and the good that sunlight has on governing.

When President Kennedy was approving the Richard Nixon planned operation for Cuban exiles to invade Cuba, the new York Times patriotically respected the government's request to not publicize what it had learned of the training camps and indications of the coming invasion, when the government still thought it could hide its involvement.

After the operation was a disaster - Kennedy learning the CIA had betrayed him - he told the Times' publisher he wished the paper had publicized the info and blocked the operation.

Daniel Ellsberg, faced with helping the government keep the secrets how it had lied to the public about the Vietnam war or leaking them, and a life sentence in prison for exposing the truth, only avoided prison because of the government doing wrong things in his prosecution (the original activity of the Watergate burglars). Did he really deserve prison for his loyalty to the American people not being lied to? But that's the law.

Wikileaks is controversial, but they've exposed a lot of wrongs. Not everyone agrees with preventing governments from having huge bureacracies that make it easy for them to lie to the public about their policies whe possible - but their doing so helped the people in dictatorships for decades get told truths that led to popular uprisings in the 'Arab Spring' and the overthrow of corrupt regimes, for one positive.

Learning that Middle Eastern nations secretly supported curtailing Iran not only helped expose wrongs by Iran, but raised issues with possible problems with 'secret policies'.

Abu Ghraib's torture and abuses were another scandal the government would have kept secret, that it had allowed, and which good was done by exposing the truth.

Another - less widely publicized - is how the large majority of Guantanamo inmates, which we were told were 'the worst of the worst', were apparently innocent.

Another - even less well publicized - is how the CIA evaded anti-torture laws with extraordinary rendtion to contries such as dictatorships in former USSR satellites, the favorite being one whose 'specialty' was boiling people alive. Funny, we are slowly creeping back closer to the Holocaust, if not in scale.

Democracy needs truths to be told, and whistleblowing is an important counter to the government being able to hide not only legitimate secrets but lies with classification.

I think people should support the whistlblower laws with both parties - both of whom too often abuse secrecy. But right now, it's Obama undermining whistleblowers.

We can at least call our Congressional representatives and complain and ask for more protections for whistleblowers - often exposing simple things like corrupt contracts.

Save234
 
Well, from a U.S. President who murders probably innocent U.S. citizens, I'm not surprised. He's doing this to protect himself. Why would he care anymore about you than Walmart stockholders? He doesn't care about you, he cares about keeping his wealth and power. Agents of the state get paid big bucks to infringe upon civil liberties. That's what the state is there to do.

Remember what Dr. Paul said... Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies.
 
What, specifically, are you talking about when you say "President Obama has taken more actions against whistleblowers than all other US Presidents - combined"? I am unaware of such retaliation and in the absence of evidence of it, it's hard to have an intelligent discussion on this topic.
 
What, specifically, are you talking about when you say "President Obama has taken more actions against whistleblowers than all other US Presidents - combined"? I am unaware of such retaliation and in the absence of evidence of it, it's hard to have an intelligent discussion on this topic.

thats exactly WHY you haven't heard of it, it's a big secret gobernment consperiacyssysies1!!!2!!!ne
 
What, specifically, are you talking about when you say "President Obama has taken more actions against whistleblowers than all other US Presidents - combined"? I am unaware of such retaliation and in the absence of evidence of it, it's hard to have an intelligent discussion on this topic.

Here's a short piece listing some examples - I'll bet that a little more searching would find more detailed lists of his polices on this.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/05/obamas-war-whistle-blowers/38106/

Some prosecutions are more understandable - while I'm sympathetic to Bradley Manning, his case is one the government has justification to prosecute, if not to be doing its mistreatment of him or an excessive punishment; but check out the first story, the 60 minutes clip in the Thomas Drake case in the link.

Five prosecutions, while technically 'more than previous presidents combined', doesn't sound like much, but I've seen other info his government is aggressive on this.
 
Is it possible he is not stemming whistle blowers individually, but rather trying to clean house in general?

What other actions has he taken? What other people has he removed that have done wrong under his name?

I am not contesting the original assertion, but unlike the Line-Item-and-Pardon President we just had (where there is nothing to really balance the numbers with), a statement has to be taken in light of other comparable actions taken by him and the administration.
 
What, specifically, are you talking about when you say "President Obama has taken more actions against whistleblowers than all other US Presidents - combined"? I am unaware of such retaliation and in the absence of evidence of it, it's hard to have an intelligent discussion on this topic.

Several articles here:

Link

Link

Link

While the Bush administration treated whistleblowers unmercifully, the Obama administration has been far worse. It is actually prosecuting them, and doing so under the Espionage Act — one of the most serious charges that can be leveled against an American. The Espionage Act is an archaic World War I-era law meant to go after spies, not whistleblowers. Strangely, using it to target the media and sources is the brainchild of neo-conservative Gabriel Schoenfeld, who would have sources who disclose information to reporters, journalists who then write about it for newspapers, the newspapers that publish the information and the publisher itself all be held criminally liable.
 
I was skeptical of President Obama ,when he when referring to Wall Street and alot of Bush's policies, he said he wanted to "move forward" and not Litigate the past?????

WTF happened to HOPE and CHANGE when it is business as usual??? I am still going to vote for him because there is no way in fucking hell I would back a Republican who wants to give further HUGE tax breaks to the rich and has a hard on to decimate SS/Medicare.

On that note, I almost passed out when President Obama dished up both SS/Medicare to the Repugs to gut but luckily Boner was to fucking greedy and turned him down flat.
 
These people are not "whistleblowers" in the legal sense (e.g., as defined by the Whistleblower Protection Act), in that they did not report illegal or improper activity to someone in power - they are people who allegedly chose to leak classified information to outsiders (in Manning's case, to anyone on earth with a computer), and claimed to have done so because they felt it was in the best interests of the country.

I am not taking a position on the righteousness of their actions (though I support the prosecution of Private Manning), but I think the title of this thread, and of those articles, is misleading. I also find it hard to believe that all other Presidents combined have not, in aggregate, prosecuted at least 5 people for similar conduct, even if they didn't use the same laws to do so.
 
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"Snitches get stitches...or end up in ditches."

I think sometimes, the line between "whistleblowing" and "revealing secrets" gets blurred by folks on both sides.

Know of someone stealing from the Pentagon? Report that...it's whistleblowing.

Know the name of CIA agents? Report those and it's "revealing secrets."
 
People in Positions of Power hate whistleblowers....

There's some truth to that.

But to avoid false equivalency on this topic, I have a quiz for the reader. Who said, in a speech to Newspaper Publishers:

I not only could not stifle controversy among your readers -- I welcome it. This Administration intends to be candid about its errors; for as a wise man once said: "An error doesn't not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." We intend to accept full responsibility for our errors; and we expect you to point them out when we miss them.

Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed -- and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy. And that is why our press was protected by the First Amendment -- the only business in America specifically protected by the Constitution -- not primarily to amuse and entertain, not to emphasize the trivial and the sentimental, not to simply "give the public what it wants" -- but to inform, to arouse, to reflect, to state our dangers and our opportunities, to indicate our crises and our choices, to lead, mold, educate, and sometimes even anger public opinion.

This means greater coverage and analysis of international news -- for it is no longer far away and foreign but close at hand and local. It means greater attention to improved understanding of the news as well as improved transmission. And it means, finally, that government at all levels, must meet its obligation to provide you with the fullest possible information outside the narrowest limits of national security -- and we intend to do it.

Was it President Kennedy? Or was it President George W. Bush?

The fact you should know the answer says that not all 'people in power' are equivalent.
 
These people are not "whistleblowers" in the legal sense (e.g., as defined by the Whistleblower Protection Act), in that they did not report illegal or improper activity to someone in power - they are people who allegedly chose to leak classified information to outsiders (in Manning's case, to anyone on earth with a computer), and claimed to have done so because they felt it was in the best interests of the country.

I am not taking a position on the righteousness of their actions (though I support the prosecution of Private Manning), but I think the title of this thread, and of those articles, is misleading. I also find it hard to believe that all other Presidents combined have not, in aggregate, prosecuted at least 5 people for similar conduct, even if they didn't use the same laws to do so.

I think you're rushing to an opinion - while I have not provided you the fuller information on the topic to form an opinion, I've pointed you to look for it, but you are ignoring that.

I don't think the variety of interests in the area of whistleblowing I've heard say things similar to those headlines are based on nothing.

Skepticism, withholding judgement is fine, actively disputing things you haven't looked into isn't. How isn't the example I pointed you to, Thomas Drake, whistleblowing?

And thanks to Garfield for the links - Glenn Greenwald is one of the good sources on whistleblowing-related topics I alluded to. He reportedly coined 'Obama's war on whistleblowers'.
 
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I was skeptical of President Obama ,when he when referring to Wall Street and alot of Bush's policies, he said he wanted to "move forward" and not Litigate the past?????

WTF happened to HOPE and CHANGE when it is business as usual??? I am still going to vote for him because there is no way in fucking hell I would back a Republican who wants to give further HUGE tax breaks to the rich and has a hard on to decimate SS/Medicare.

On that note, I almost passed out when President Obama dished up both SS/Medicare to the Repugs to gut but luckily Boner was to fucking greedy and turned him down flat.

I agree.
 
Was it President Kennedy? Or was it President George W. Bush? The fact you should know the answer says that not all 'people in power' are equivalent.
The problem is that the vast majority of people in power are equivalent to the vast majority of people in power and JFK was likely more of an exception to the rule than most because he had the lowest testosterone level of any President starting with himself.

Most people are going to take public office for their own gain, or at least mostly their own gain, and that's the problem with government. People vary rarely are willing to sacrifice themselves for everyone else. To illustrate my point... 434 out of 435 U.S. representatives were not willing to spend any of their own money on the medal for Mother Teresa that they legislated others pay for. Dr. Paul was the only one out of 435 public legislators who asked Congress, including himself, to personally pay for it, but the other 434 members would not take him up on his offer. Dr. Paul is one of only 2 members of Congress who have refused pensions and neither one of those who refuse are the wealthiest members of Congress. That should tell what the general rule is.

All of that said, I think society would be better off if enough people realized that the rule of law was the same thing as the rule of men.
 
You know... tip o' hat to you for making a post critical of the guy you typically champion.
This. Although personally, meh. Everyone in power hates whistleblowers. But kudos to Craig for perceiving reality as it is rather than how he wishes it to be.

EDIT: I should add that like DVC, I don't consider leakers to be whistleblowers. If Obama jumps up and down on them with both feet, making mud puddles in their pasty asses, I'm happy. Big difference between blowing the whistle on illegal activity and dumping a bunch of classified information because you're unhappy with the country, agency, or whatever.
 
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I think it's obvious no one likes bad leaks. But using a WWI era law seems odd.

Also, Obama (and for that matter, every other politician in the country) doesn't mind leaking info that makes them look good, which creates a nice double standard.

If you leak classified info that makes Obama (or insert any other president's name) look good, strong, or otherwise helps him, you don't get prosecuted.

If you leak classified info that makes him look stupid, or wrong, the gloves come off and they will go after you.

It certainly could have a strong affect on people leaking information, since only "good" stuff gets leaked, and everyone is afraid of punishment for leaking true, but "bad" info.

And isn't that what whistleblower laws were originally created for anyway?
 
I think it's obvious no one likes bad leaks. But using a WWI era law seems odd.

Also, Obama (and for that matter, every other politician in the country) doesn't mind leaking info that makes them look good, which creates a nice double standard.

If you leak classified info that makes Obama (or insert any other president's name) look good, strong, or otherwise helps him, you don't get prosecuted.

If you leak classified info that makes him look stupid, or wrong, the gloves come off and they will go after you.

It certainly could have a strong affect on people leaking information, since only "good" stuff gets leaked, and everyone is afraid of punishment for leaking true, but "bad" info.

And isn't that what whistleblower laws were originally created for anyway?

There are reports that some of the biggest leaking going on now is over a turf war between the military and CIA, leaking info that helps them get more power.

Remember the Chalabi situation, where one wanted him put in charge of Iraq and the other didn't? Suddenly there's a lot of bad info about him leaked, he's raided...
 
I think it's obvious no one likes bad leaks. But using a WWI era law seems odd.

Also, Obama (and for that matter, every other politician in the country) doesn't mind leaking info that makes them look good, which creates a nice double standard.

If you leak classified info that makes Obama (or insert any other president's name) look good, strong, or otherwise helps him, you don't get prosecuted.

If you leak classified info that makes him look stupid, or wrong, the gloves come off and they will go after you.

It certainly could have a strong affect on people leaking information, since only "good" stuff gets leaked, and everyone is afraid of punishment for leaking true, but "bad" info.

And isn't that what whistleblower laws were originally created for anyway?

It's odd in some of these cases though, particularly the Drake case, since Drake purpotedly leaked information that made the Bush administration look bad because the NSA had used an over-expensive program to conduct warrantless surveillance on American citzens. The progam was canned in 2005, however, so Obama is not implicated in any of Drake's leaks. It's also worth mentioning that the investigation of Drake started under the Bush DoJ. As well, the idea to use the Espionage Act to charge him originated in the Bush DoJ. Given these facts, it's not real clear to me why the Obama DoJ stayed the course on that case yet it did.
 
These people are not "whistleblowers" in the legal sense (e.g., as defined by the Whistleblower Protection Act), in that they did not report illegal or improper activity to someone in power - they are people who allegedly chose to leak classified information to outsiders (in Manning's case, to anyone on earth with a computer), and claimed to have done so because they felt it was in the best interests of the country.

I am not taking a position on the righteousness of their actions (though I support the prosecution of Private Manning), but I think the title of this thread, and of those articles, is misleading. I also find it hard to believe that all other Presidents combined have not, in aggregate, prosecuted at least 5 people for similar conduct, even if they didn't use the same laws to do so.

When the person(s) committing the wrong are those in power, you have no other recourse but to go outside of the tangled web to others that are capable of informing others about the wrongs.

Manning's case is a prime example. While I support his actions in the sense that he was bringing to light the hypocrisy and in some cases, blatant corruption of the government, he should have stopped well short of providing a treasure trove of all of the information that he could acquire and only have provided pertinent information.

Because he went so far and gave out extremely sensitive information, he should be prosecuted. But his releasing transcripts/records that the State Dept. is secrectly trying to manipulate situations and talk about other leaders the moment they turn their backs isn't anything that is shocking, a state secret or something that should be used to put him in prision.

Anyone with a brain knows this type of activity goes on. Wait a moment....I just figured out why he needs to be prosecuted for it. Most of the population doesn't have any common sense and they let others think for them all too often therefore exposing these extremely tame "revelations" is going to scare them into submission.
 
Oh, and one last thing....

I am willing to bet anyone right now that the majority of leaking that is going on is one alphabet soup department trying to make another look bad or a politician in the know telling an aid to speak to a reporter "off the record" to smear the opposing party in some capacity.
 
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