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Obama Has Brought Us to ‘Constitutional Tipping Point’

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sandorski said:
What? You think a Nation can survive without Government?
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That's a false choice. Laws created do not disappear, and government continues regardless of whether new laws are created each year. Arguably government continues better. For example, my company's health insurance ends starting July 1st as due to Obamacare, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Tennessee (a not-for-profit organization designed to provide insurance at cost) is discontinuing all its small business policies, and no other insurer is willing to even talk with our broker because the law is literally being rewritten by the bureaucracy every week, so no one can know what costs and regulatory environment will exist mid-year. We're discussing the ability to implement one's agenda, not the existence of government.
 
werepossum said:
That's a false choice. Laws created do not disappear, and government continues regardless of whether new laws are created each year. Arguably government continues better. For example, my company's health insurance ends starting July 1st as due to Obamacare, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Tennessee (a not-for-profit organization designed to provide insurance at cost) is discontinuing all its small business policies, and no other insurer is willing to even talk with our broker because the law is literally being rewritten by the bureaucracy every week, so no one can know what costs and regulatory environment will exist mid-year. We're discussing the ability to implement one's agenda, not the existence of government.
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The discussion is when all that is available is a King or Emperor, do I think it should be adopted. I said Yes. Perhaps I misunderstood the scenario. History shows that Nations that survive do so by adopting different forms of Government. Sometimes because some form comes along that's better. Other times because the previous form failed to continue being effective.
 
sandorski said:
The discussion is when all that is available is a King or Emperor, do I think it should be adopted. I said Yes. Perhaps I misunderstood the scenario. History shows that Nations that survive do so by adopting different forms of Government. Sometimes because some form comes along that's better. Other times because the previous form failed to continue being effective.
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Darwin's question was "So you do believe that, if necessary in your mind, the US should, at least at times, have a king or emperor of some sort?" He did not posit that "a king or emperor of some sort" would be all that is available. You added that entirely on your own, solely due to Obama being unable to move forward his agenda consistent with American law. Obama not getting his way does not equal government disappearing.
 
werepossum said:
Darwin's question was "So you do believe that, if necessary in your mind, the US should, at least at times, have a king or emperor of some sort?" He did not posit that "a king or emperor of some sort" would be all that is available. You added that entirely on your own, solely due to Obama being unable to move forward his agenda consistent with American law. Obama not getting his way does not equal government disappearing.
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In that case No.

It was made very clear by the Republican Leadership early in Obama's first term that they were going to obstruct. They have done so since. This isn't about Obama not getting his way, it is about Republicans refusing to Govern.
 
Obstruction is the classic technique used by any party in the minority. It IS a part of governance to peacefully resist what you cannot abide.
 
crashtech said:
Obstruction is the classic technique used by any party in the minority. It IS a part of governance to peacefully resist what you cannot abide.
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Apparently the Republicans can not abide anything. They have abused it unlike any other beforehand, after announcing that was exactly what they would do.

If you think they are doing it for some noble purpose, you're worse than wrong.
 
sandorski said:
Apparently the Republicans can not abide anything. They have abused it unlike any other beforehand, after announcing that was exactly what they would do.

If you think they are doing it for some noble purpose, you're worse than wrong.
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I'm not judging intentions, only stating what ought to be obvious about the process.
 
boomerang said:
Obama changed his signature healthcare legislation at last count 26 (28?) times by executive fiat. I know you keep up on these things and wondered if you could help me out finding how Congress obstructed him in these instances that necessitated him doing that. Thanks in advance.
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Don't worry about it. Obama's a good guy, and I'm sure none of the future presidents will ever abuse the power he is trying to give to the executive branch. We should just get rid of congress and have a president for life. That would make things move along much faster.
 
crashtech said:
Obstruction is the classic technique used by any party in the minority. It IS a part of governance to peacefully resist what you cannot abide.
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How can the minority party obstruct anything? This doesn't even make sense.

Suppose 5 people are trying to decide where to eat. 3 of them are men, 2 of them are women. The first 2 men say they should eat at McDonalds. The two women say they should eat at Red Lobster. The third man agrees with the two women and says they should eat at Red Lobster. OBSTRUCTIONISM!! Those 2 women are the reason we can't go to McDonalds!!! Grrr!!! The king should ignore the votes, ignore democracy, and rule by fiat.

Governments in other countries go as far as having a vote of non-confidence if the majority of congressmen turn against the leader. If this were Britain, Obama would have been kicked out by now. He wants to pass some shit that aims to destroy the country, 2/3 of congress vote against it, and an election is called. Of course those other countries also have the leader of the congress being the leader of the country. Under British rules, our prime minister would be Eric Cantor. He would probably get kicked out too.
 
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Spungo said:
How can the minority party obstruct anything? This doesn't even make sense.

Suppose 5 people are trying to decide where to eat. 3 of them are men, 2 of them are women. The first 2 men say they should eat at McDonalds. The two women say they should eat at Red Lobster. The third man agrees with the two women and says they should eat at Red Lobster. OBSTRUCTIONISM!! Those 2 women are the reason we can't go to McDonalds!!! Grrr!!! The king should ignore the votes, ignore democracy, and rule by fiat.

Governments in other countries go as far as having a vote of non-confidence if the majority of congressmen turn against the leader. If this were Britain, Obama would have been kicked out by now. He wants to pass some shit that aims to destroy the country, 2/3 of congress vote against it, and an election is called. Of course those other countries also have the leader of the congress being the leader of the country. Under British rules, our prime minister would be Eric Cantor. He would probably get kicked out too.
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Your ignorance of how our government works is astounding! If I were you I'd lay low for a few days, so everyone will have forgotten your post.

While laying low, maybe you could read up on how congress works, look up how a bill is proposed and the process it goes through before it's even voted on. Then once you understand that, read up on house and senate rules for voting and passing legislation.

Hopefully once you educate yourself in the process you won't sound like such a fucking idiot...hopefully.

Now if your post was sarcastic...well, add a sarcasm tag next time "/s"
 
Moonbeam said:
The conservative mind likes to think in terms of black and white. Ignore equals chains, strict adherence equals freedom. I see more an issue of a major responding to need vs. compromise accommodation to need, we buy the length of our chains depending on external real conditions via negotiation. This is why a party that sees the other as evil us dangerous for America. To be dangerous requires response and the issue then becomes is one side evil or is the other side mentally defective.
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Consider Romans 12:2
 
sandorski said:
What? You think a Nation can survive without Government?
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I've seen this movie too. Everyone had total liberty to do whatever they wanted, businesses were free to charge whatever they liked free of taxes and regulation and everyone had guns and rode motor bikes and fought over oil. It all seemed pretty exciting, if you ask me.
 
sandorski said:
The discussion is when all that is available is a King or Emperor, do I think it should be adopted. I said Yes. Perhaps I misunderstood the scenario. History shows that Nations that survive do so by adopting different forms of Government. Sometimes because some form comes along that's better. Other times because the previous form failed to continue being effective.
Click to expand...

I don't think we have any other option but to nuke the M.E. until it's a self-lit, glass-bottomed, parking garage, same goes for N. Korea (sorry S. Korea). History shows that it's the best way to make another side relent, there hasn't been another form of warfare that's come along that's more effective. :colbert:

Yeah, anything can be justified, if you choose to ignore the consequences. Right?
 
MagickMan said:
I don't think we have any other option but to nuke the M.E. until it's a self-lit, glass-bottomed, parking garage, same goes for N. Korea (sorry S. Korea). History shows that it's the best way to make another side relent, there hasn't been another form of warfare that's come along that's more effective. :colbert:

Yeah, anything can be justified, if you choose to ignore the consequences. Right?
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Show a Nation which had no Government and survived without one.
 
sandorski said:
In that case No.

It was made very clear by the Republican Leadership early in Obama's first term that they were going to obstruct. They have done so since. This isn't about Obama not getting his way, it is about Republicans refusing to Govern.
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Obama has done such wonderful and magical things, but hasn't done anything because the Republicans obstructed everything he did. You liberals are just trying to play both sides. When anything good is being discussed it's because Obama is the great leader and when anything bad is being discusses it's because republicans obstructed him.
 
FYI for ya all.
Ever since since, there has been a power struggle between the branches of gov.
And like the wars and turmoils over in the Middle East, I suspect the struggles between our branches will go on and on and on and....
So whats new?
 
sportage said:
FYI for ya all.
Ever since since, there has been a power struggle between the branches of gov.
And like the wars and turmoils over in the Middle East, I suspect the struggles between our branches will go on and on and on and....
So whats new?
Click to expand...

A black, Kenyan, Muslim, communist, is in the White House!
 
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