Obama: Europe should better integrate Muslims

[nickqt]

Well he better get better speech writers

blames Benghazi on a video

The one crucial mistake Obama and many other phony liberals make is they somehow forget that in a secular society if you want people to respect Islam you must also show the same respect to all other religions, elevate one above the other in the slightest and you will start going down a dangerous slippery slope that will be hard to backtrack from.

Blames Benghazi on a video. You still harping on that falsity? Geez. Keep your head in the sand.

Please proceed, 1prophet.

 

[Fern]

How is their life outlook "built around" not assimilating? Have you even given them a chance? Most of these communities have been there a few years at most.
-snip-

"Most of these communities have been there a few years at most." Really?

I arrived to live Europe 30 years ago. The Muslim populations were already there, and had been for a long time.

I lived in West Berlin, in the borough of Kreuzberg. That is where the concentration of Turkish people lived, and still do to my knowledge. They came over to help rebuild after WWII.

Later, I live in Paris in the 18th arrondissement. That is where the (Arab) Muslims live.

To be sure, recent conflicts in Arab countries has encouraged more immigration. But given the age of these communities wide spread assimilation should have already occurred. And had that happened, the path would be much easier for new arrivals who wished to assimilate.

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-
It depends on your definition of "recent", but it is my understanding that Palestinians were the main group that immigrated there.

No.

Look up Algeria. France and Algerian War and emigration etc. for a starter.

Pardon me if this seems rude, but you don't seem knowledgeable about the topic, yet continue to post on.

Fern

 

[TreVader]

No.



Look up Algeria. France and Algerian War and emigration etc. for a starter.



Pardon me if this seems rude, but you don't seem knowledgeable about the topic, yet continue to post on.



Fern

And you don't appear to have read the thread. This was all worked out pages ago. But please, keep responding to old posts and reading the thread as you go, and I will copy and paste this response if you have any more questions.

 

[Fern]

Thanks for the history lesson. How is that relevant and if Muslims were such a huge population why didn't they burn Paris to the ground, as you seem to think they are liable to do?
-snip-

They gave it a pretty good try back in 2005:

In October and November of 2005, a series of riots by mainly Arab, North African, and black second-generation immigrants occurred in the suburbs of Paris and other French cities,[1][2] involving mainly the burning of cars and public buildings at night, starting on 27 October 2005 in Clichy-sous-Bois. Events spread to poor housing projects (the cités HLM) in various parts of France. A state of emergency was declared on 8 November 2005. It was extended for three months on 16 November by the Parliament.

Started: 17:20 on Thursday, 27 October 2005 in Clichy-sous-Bois.

Towns affected: 274 (on 7 November[30])

Property damage: 8,973 vehicles (Not including buildings).

Monetary damage: Estimated at €200 Million.

Arrests: 2,888

Deaths: 2 (Salah Gaham and Jean-Jacques Le Chenadec)

Police and firefighters injured: 126

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_riots#Summary_statistics

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-
I have yet to see a single terrorist attack by an Asian committed in the US, despite the total number of Asian Muslims being massive.
-snip-

Two things:

1. In an effort to assist communication please be more precise with your language. E.g., "Asia" includes Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Palestine, Pakistan etc. It's quite a large area.

Edit: Forgot link to list of Asian countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_Asia

2. Please support your contention with linkage that we have a "massive" number of such immigrants here in the USA.

TIA

Fern

 

[Orignal Earl]

They gave it a pretty good try back in 2005:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_riots#Summary_statistics

Fern

Like your link says, those riots had nothing to do with anything Islamic or terrorism though right?

 

[Blue_Max]

Like your link says, those riots had nothing to do with anything Islamic or terrorism though right?

*sigh* This. THIS is why we can never have a successful dialogue... the facts are staring you in the face but you still want to deny them.

You don't WANT to discuss things, you want to lie and just have people swallow it without question (like the feminist "listen and believe" campaign) and get irrationally mad if people won't.

 

[Orignal Earl]

*sigh* This. THIS is why we can never have a successful dialogue... the facts are staring you in the face but you still want to deny them.

You don't WANT to discuss things, you want to lie and just have people swallow it without question (like the feminist "listen and believe" campaign) and get irrationally mad if people won't.

Posts that make me lol

 

[Victorian Gray]

*sigh* This. THIS is why we can never have a successful dialogue... the facts are staring you in the face but you still want to deny them.

You don't WANT to discuss things, you want to lie and just have people swallow it without question (like the feminist "listen and believe" campaign) and get irrationally mad if people won't.

Do you not read your own posts?

 

[CitizenKain]

*sigh* This. THIS is why we can never have a successful dialogue... the facts are staring you in the face but you still want to deny them.

You don't WANT to discuss things, you want to lie and just have people swallow it without question (like the feminist "listen and believe" campaign) and get irrationally mad if people won't.

This is why no one cares what you think.

 

[ivwshane]

Like your link says, those riots had nothing to do with anything Islamic or terrorism though right?

Lol! You think he actually reads what he posts? He saw the words "French", "riots", and "Arab" and just assumed that the cause was an act of terrorism. Not only was he wrong but that particular incident highlights exactly what Obama is talking about! Detaining people for hours and requiring their "papers", is not how you assimilate anyone.

Good job fern!

 

[TreVader]

"Most of these communities have been there a few years at most." Really?

I arrived to live Europe 30 years ago. The Muslim populations were already there, and had been for a long time.

I lived in West Berlin, in the borough of Kreuzberg. That is where the concentration of Turkish people lived, and still do to my knowledge. They came over to help rebuild after WWII.

Later, I live in Paris in the 18th arrondissement. That is where the (Arab) Muslims live.

To be sure, recent conflicts in Arab countries has encouraged more immigration. But given the age of these communities wide spread assimilation should have already occurred. And had that happened, the path would be much easier for new arrivals who wished to assimilate.

Fern

Are you done quoting old crap and rehashing it over and over in the hopes of finding something that doesn't make you look like a bumkin? Good.


Recent conflicts huh? What would those be? These immigrants who came here 30 years ago to France, where did they move? Were they even offered jobs, places to live apart from the tiny ghetto communities they were shoved in? France is HARDLY a bastion of tolerance for French speakers from Belgium, how do you think they treated all these Algerian and Moroccan immigrants? The French are notorious for their prejudice against foreigners, but of course lets ignore the way the people act and just address it's far far more liberal immigration laws. Anything to support your argument that "mooslems r bad!".

 

[TreVader]

They gave it a pretty good try back in 2005:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_riots#Summary_statistics

Fern

Hmm, in 2005 there were already more than 2 million muslims in france at this time! Can you count? 10,000 of these Muslims, or 0.5% of the population would have been PLENTY to burn Paris to the ground. Since people here including yourself are clearly under the assumption that islam radicalizes the population. Crazy how not even half of a percent of the population years ago was doing anything wrong yet you blame their entire community for it. What utter prejudice.

Your definition of "try" is a joke.

 

[TreVader]

Two things:

1. In an effort to assist communication please be more precise with your language. E.g., "Asia" includes Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Palestine, Pakistan etc. It's quite a large area.

Edit: Forgot link to list of Asian countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_Asia

Lol. I am talking about ETHNICALLY asian people. What don't you understand about this? There is a big difference between Asian people and PEOPLE IN ASIA, idiot.

2. Please support your contention with linkage that we have a "massive" number of such immigrants here in the USA.

TIA

Fern

I said a massive number of muslims in general, never specified the US but good try. There are over a million muslims in the US, which is plenty to cause strife should they really want to cause it.

Do you recall Miami in the 1980s when all the horrible terrorist catholic cuban refugees came here? I assume you also believe that Christianity is a horrible and violent religion that radicalizes a people and prevents them from assimilating, because even a decade after these people came to miami they were causing so much crime it was a fucking national crises!

Any racist BS narrative can be used to target a specific Relgion. The cuban immigrants are a PERFECT example of an insular community coming to the US and doing exactly what Muslims do in europe: ghettoizing and developing secretarian communities that are isolated from the general population.

Were you conscious in the 80s or just drunk the whole time:'(

 

[Black Octagon]

Are you done quoting old crap and rehashing it over and over in the hopes of finding something that doesn't make you look like a bumkin? Good.





Recent conflicts huh? What would those be? These immigrants who came here 30 years ago to France, where did they move? Were they even offered jobs, places to live apart from the tiny ghetto communities they were shoved in? France is HARDLY a bastion of tolerance for French speakers from Belgium, how do you think they treated all these Algerian and Moroccan immigrants? The French are notorious for their prejudice against foreigners, but of course lets ignore the way the people act and just address it's far far more liberal immigration laws. Anything to support your argument that "mooslems r bad!".

Please try to express yourself without name-calling and swearing. I don't know that I agree with everything Fern said, but at least his posts contain, you know, actual points rather than outrage.

Secondly, I'm not Belgian, but I live in Belgium and I speak French. I regularly travel to France and have NO IDEA what you're on about with respect to French'intolerance' of French-speaking Belgians. Care to elaborate, with a source? From my point of view, relations between these 2 groups are pretty good. There are plenty of famous quotes from Jacques Chirac calling the Belgian Wallons the 'brothers' of Frenchmen. Moreover, the papers here semi-regularly post results of surveys in which notable numbers of French Belgians say they are 'open' to Wallonie becoming part of France. Not necessarily the same thing as France 'tolerating' these people but these are honestly the first things that come to mind when I think about relations between France and Wallonie.

Thirdly, there may be a stereotype about the Frenchman who is rude to foreigners, but I never really saw evidence for it. Parisians ARE very formal people, however, and I've seen many a tourist (particularly Americans) receive cool receptions because they think it's appropriate to be as informal and direct while abroad as they are back home.

 

[TreVader]

Please try to express yourself without name-calling and swearing. I don't know that I agree with everything Fern said, but at least his posts contain, you know, actual points rather than outrage.

Secondly, I'm not Belgian, but I live in Belgium and I speak French. I regularly travel to France and have NO IDEA what you're on about with respect to French'intolerance' of French-speaking Belgians. Care to elaborate, with a source? From my point of view, relations between these 2 groups are pretty good. There are plenty of famous quotes from Jacques Chirac calling the Belgian Wallons the 'brothers' of Frenchmen. Moreover, the papers here semi-regularly post results of surveys in which notable numbers of French Belgians say they are 'open' to Wallonie becoming part of France. Not necessarily the same thing as France 'tolerating' these people but these are honestly the first things that come to mind when I think about relations between France and Wallonie.

Thirdly, there may be a stereotype about the Frenchman who is rude to foreigners, but I never really saw evidence for it. Parisians ARE very formal people, however, and I've seen many a tourist (particularly Americans) receive cool receptions because they think it's appropriate to be as informal and direct while abroad as they are back home.

Personal attacks and swearing are allowed in P&N, so please try to keep up. I do not give a shit that you are offended. Not at all.


As for the rest... Lol. You ever go to Paris? They hate you guys.


You are clearly not Belgian. Let us see proof of your Belgian citizenship. And the stereotypes about then French being lazy and intolerant have been around for centuries and for good reason.


Edit: Lol did you even read what you quoted? I don't even swear once! And the harshest thing I call him is a "Bumkin".


I wonder what you think of me calling you a stupid fuck? Does that bother you? Is that swearing? Because that's my current assessment of your disposition here on this forum. I'm sorry if it is unpleasant to hear that people think you are an idiot or to hear that people think Fern is an idiot, but what he said was idiotic. It is not my job to censor my opinions to make him happy.

 

[TreVader]

I am going to bed, but before I do I'd like to express my disgust with the cadre of disingenuous and possibly racist posters like Fern and Black Octagon. These people did not come here to do anything except criticize 1.6 Billion people for the actions of 4, on the basis of their religion and in reality, on the basis of their race as arabs.


This whole thing is just a guise for anti-arab racist sentiments in Europe, the US, and all over the world. Despite Asian (read: not arab) muslims number over half a billion, you never see people getting outraged and freaking out over them. I wonder why?

Fern and others here do everything they possibly can to try to detract from this argument, including such BS arguments as "Iraq is in Asia", LOL. As if that makes Iraqis somehow related to the Japanese. Fern knows this is a BS argument but he still puts it out here in order to 1) Distract people from his lack of any real point beyond his hate and 2) upset me in the hopes of getting to infracted. I have no patience for this crap.


If you would like to come in here, and make the totally laughable argument that Parisians are in fact "very tolerant" of foreigners and are somehow misunderstood, then whatever. Only an idiot would believe you anyway, and I have complete confidence that you will find many, but having the support of the Racists here doesn't make your stupid argument any smarter or less racist.

 

[halik]

Listen here you conservative jingoistic communist ape. Don't talk to me about meds when I went out of my way to insult conservatives here because I haven't done so in weeks. And don't talk to me about Al Gore, whoever the fuck he is, since he isn't the one who spoke about this matter to Europeans. It was Obama and he speaks Latin fluently. Also, you are like a weather vane that was set up backwards, which is why you not me is wrong 100% of the time. We are the greatest melting pot on the planet and the Europeans are a thousand years behind us. We have everything there is to teach them about integration. We fought a civil war over the issue. Go play on your trike.

I think you've got a lot of pent up self hate.

 

[halik]

No.

Look up Algeria. France and Algerian War and emigration etc. for a starter.

Pardon me if this seems rude, but you don't seem knowledgeable about the topic, yet continue to post on.

Fern

I think there's a large difference between the north African muslims that lived in France for 50+ years and the recent (last 5-10 years) wave of asylum seekers from middle east. The issues of Hijab in public, special accommodations for muslim girls in public schools, sharia-based marriage/divorce only came up recently.

 

[Black Octagon]

Personal attacks and swearing are allowed in P&N, so please try to keep up. I do not give a shit that you are offended. Not at all.


As for the rest... Lol. You ever go to Paris? They hate you guys.


You are clearly not Belgian. Let us see proof of your Belgian citizenship. And the stereotypes about then French being lazy and intolerant have been around for centuries and for good reason.


Edit: Lol did you even read what you quoted? I don't even swear once! And the harshest thing I call him is a "Bumkin".


I wonder what you think of me calling you a stupid fuck? Does that bother you? Is that swearing? Because that's my current assessment of your disposition here on this forum. I'm sorry if it is unpleasant to hear that people think you are an idiot or to hear that people think Fern is an idiot, but what he said was idiotic. It is not my job to censor my opinions to make him happy.

1) I am not offended. I'm telling you that resorting to insults does less to convince people of your position than does the use of actual arguments. Assuming you are here to actually achieve anything with with your posts, I suggest that you follow this advice.

2) Yes I do go to Paris, regularly. I'm a 75-minute train ride away. "They" do not "hate" foreigners.

3) I said I am not Belgian but that I live in Belgium. Please read before you post. I am an Australian who has been living hear for 8+ years now.

4) In addition to saying 'bumkin' (sic), you also said 'crap.'

 

[Black Octagon]

I am going to bed, but before I do I'd like to express my disgust with the cadre of disingenuous and possibly racist posters like Fern and Black Octagon. These people did not come here to do anything except criticize 1.6 Billion people for the actions of 4, on the basis of their religion and in reality, on the basis of their race as arabs.


This whole thing is just a guise for anti-arab racist sentiments in Europe, the US, and all over the world. Despite Asian (read: not arab) muslims number over half a billion, you never see people getting outraged and freaking out over them. I wonder why?

Fern and others here do everything they possibly can to try to detract from this argument, including such BS arguments as "Iraq is in Asia", LOL. As if that makes Iraqis somehow related to the Japanese. Fern knows this is a BS argument but he still puts it out here in order to 1) Distract people from his lack of any real point beyond his hate and 2) upset me in the hopes of getting to infracted. I have no patience for this crap.


If you would like to come in here, and make the totally laughable argument that Parisians are in fact "very tolerant" of foreigners and are somehow misunderstood, then whatever. Only an idiot would believe you anyway, and I have complete confidence that you will find many, but having the support of the Racists here doesn't make your stupid argument any smarter or less racist.

Please read my post history. I have been regularly posting against the likes of clear Islamophobes like JEDIYoga. I am very concerned that masses of moderate Muslims are being marginalised by bigots who refuse to distinguish between radicals and moderates. Example.

None of this prevents me from challenging posters like you who rely on swearing and questionable assumptions about whole races of people. The fact that we are both seen as 'Muslim sympathisers' by others on these boards changes nothing.

By the way, only some of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims are 'Arabs.' Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim country and they are not 'Arabs.' Iranian Muslims are not 'Arabs' and so on. Your ignorance is not helping people like me who are trying to use real facts and arguments to defend Muslims, who are a minority under constant attack in various Western societies now.

Oh yeah, and again, READ! I did not say that Parisians are "very tolerant of foreigners." I said that in my view, and contrary to yours, relations between France and French-speaking Belgians seemed "very good." Not the same thing, at all. Sheesh.

 

[Blue_Max]

This is why no one cares what you think.

...or at least our local radfem(s). Amusing how all 3 shills got their quick-fire shaming in record time!

 

[Newell Steamer]

Wait,.. just last week people were slamming Obama for not being 'involved',.. now that he tosses out "try to better assimilate" he needs to shut the fuck up??

This is why Barry's critics can't have nice things.

 

[OGOC]

"I hate the scary black man, therefore everything he says is automatically wrong, and I will never read the offending article in question!"

Honestly, this was never how I interpreted any type of anti-Obama criticism, but certain stripes of it, over the last 2 years....that's pretty much all there is now. It's obvious. Kinda surprising for some of you, to be honest

Exactly. It's obvious. Like how everyone who criticizes Ted Cruz does so because they hate Hispanics. Or how everyone who criticizes Bobby Jindal hates Indians. And don't get me started on the racists who criticize Tim Scott and Allen West and Herman Cain.

That, or maybe it's due to Obama's track record of years of lies, deceit, and anti-Americanism that people now just assume he will continue his trend.

There's a guitar player where Obama's drones bombing little children at weddings should be.