Obama claims GOP trying to destroy Social Security

[Darwin333]

They robbed between 100 billion to 200 billion almost every year fund was created to pay for other things. Not wanting to raise taxes to pay for these things so they hit the working class money. Money from which they can not escape from paying until you make ~ 95K, or have passive income, or capital gains. If you make minimum wage you're paying 14% no exclusions, exemptions, or deductions. The money would be there, is there, if you treat working class like bankers. We owe about half the national debt to SS/FHA/FICA/Pension recipients who overpaid or about 7 trillion is securities held by government accounts. I bet bankers are paid their half first though.

Are you kidding? Of course the bankers are going to get paid first. Hell, in someways they already have.

 

[Slew Foot]

The Dems have realized that they can bribe the populace with their own money. The democracy is finished, the country is doomed.

 

[Craig234]

So what is your idea to fix social security? I pretty much know that every dollar I put in now is basically going to disappear. I will never see anything by the time I'm old and ready to retire. Or do you think it will all just work out because it feels good?

No, you don't pretty much know that. It's an opinion you have decided to have that screws up your opinion on the Social Security issue.

Who wouldn't mind paying in all that money with your baseless assumption? Kind of a choice your making that will do what you say you are worried about however.

'It doesn't work, so destroy it.' Well, do that and it won't, just as you caused, er, assumed.

There are all kinds of fixes available to tweak SS as needed to account for the baby boomer bubble - easily available from google from major studies.

With your baseless and uninformed rush to wrong conclusions, you are not one to be sarcastic about the issue.

 

[bamacre]

Boomers have paid it forward in the $3T in the SS trusts, which is above and beyond paying SS benefits to their seniors. money spent otherwise went into the general fund, which accounts for all federal expenditures from infrastructure to defense to law enforcement to you name it. It's not like boomers laid the country to waste.

In what assets are those $3 trillion?

 

[Hacp]

Trying to put it off on boomers is dishonest and truly blind in every way. Boomers have paid it forward in the $3T in the SS trusts, which is above and beyond paying SS benefits to their seniors. money spent otherwise went into the general fund, which accounts for all federal expenditures from infrastructure to defense to law enforcement to you name it. It's not like boomers laid the country to waste.

So baby boomers got the benefit of the 3 trillion PLUS they are stealing from the younger generation because they borrowed that money instead of cutting government programs. Basically double dipping. Sort of like how they voted in politicians that gave away all the pensions knowing full well that they wouldn't be the ones paying for it.

 

[StageLeft]

The idea behind social security is that too many people will not save for their retirement. So the government took all that money, then completely failed to save one dime of it.

this

Example: life expectancy in the 1500s was only about 30 years. Does that mean everybody dies before 40? Of course not. What it means is that a high number of people died at birth. Famous painter Michelangelo died in 1564, he was 88 years old! Leonardo died in 1519 at the age of 67. Raphael died in 1520 at age 37. Donatello died in 1466 at age 80. I can't find a wiki page about Shredder, but so far 2 of the 4 ninja turtles made it to 80 and that was like 400-500 years ago.

TOTAL WIN

It's not a Ponzi scheme; you clearly don't know what one is. People paying in now to current recipients to get paid later by workers then isn't a Ponzi scheme.

A Ponzi scheme is one in which people are enticed to get big returns on 'investment' by getting more new people to invest than there are old investors, which clearly has limits.

A technical difference. In fact, practically speaking, SS has a lot of characteristics of a ponzi scheme, the most important one being that what you put in is never coming to you and relies only upon people after you putting in money. And, like any good ponzi scheme, the earlier in the better you do. The people who were first recipients of SS made off like bandits.

Something like SS is great. I think SS itself is fundamentally flawed. For one thing, people my age in their 30's with good incomes should be tailoring our lives with an expectation we won't need it. And thus with far less of us using it we should be paying less in. SS should not be for wealthy people, but only the destitute. The benefit of this being the system itself can shrink so that we're only paying for the destitute as well.

 

[StageLeft]

So baby boomers got the benefit of the 3 trillion PLUS they are stealing from the younger generation because they borrowed that money instead of cutting government programs. Basically double dipping. Sort of like how they voted in politicians that gave away all the pensions knowing full well that they wouldn't be the ones paying for it.

I hold the baby boomers disproportionately responsible for the fvcked up finances of this country. They have been the voting mass for the past few decades as government entitlement programs and spending have become wholly out of whack, the debt literally and provably unsustainable, and now as they get near retirement age instead of admitting their fault they will of course do all they damn well can to push the burden upon their kids.

 

[Fingolfin269]

There are all kinds of fixes available to tweak SS as needed to account for the baby boomer bubble - easily available from google from major studies..

As you said, there are all kinds of fixes available to tweak SS. Which of those fixes do you support?

 

[Pneumothorax]

As you said, there are all kinds of fixes available to tweak SS. Which of those fixes do you support?

None of the Above... He wants us to be taxed at ninety percent to balance out the budget and entitlement programs...AFTER we get Canadian healthcare and demolish the Pentagon. Then we celebrate by heading on over to the USA.GOV store for our daily bread and cheese.

 

[Budarow]

I hold the baby boomers disproportionately responsible for the fvcked up finances of this country. They have been the voting mass for the past few decades as government entitlement programs and spending have become wholly out of whack, the debt literally and provably unsustainable, and now as they get near retirement age instead of admitting their fault they will of course do all they damn well can to push the burden upon their kids.

Which is why the "destitute" in their old age (perhaps myself included) will be eating Alpo for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Does anyone really believe our kids will be willing to pay for "old people" to be retired (and/or for old people to still collect SS and work minimum wage jobs) when they can't even afford any decent standard of living or health care while working 2 minimum wage jobs? The whole situtation is really quite unbelievable, but in reality, it was plan to see for the astute over the past 50-60 years.

The rich repubs think they'll be able to keep the down-and-outers at bay by holding up in their mansions with arms and the democrats think they can keep the con going by allowing immigrants citizenship so they can work here and pay taxes to support the system.

There are only two futures for the U.S.

1. Entitlements are SEVERLY cut and Alpo is the main course
2. Massive inflation occurs due to ballooning deficit spending in order to keep entitlements going and Alpo is still a gourmet meal.

At least we'll eat though. Much of the rest of the world will simply starve.

The game is over. SS is projected to be in the "red' this year and next and the world economy will not recover because massive debt got us here and it's worse now with all the worldwide debt "stimulus" spending over the past 2 years. Honestly, I've been wondering for 15 years how much longer the con would continue and now it seems I have the answer.

Very sad and simply fubar.

 

[Budarow]

As you said, there are all kinds of fixes available to tweak SS. Which of those fixes do you support?

The 1st fix....take all SS benefits away from anyone who has a lot of assets (e.g., $3 million plus) within the past 7 years (i.e., to prevent moving assets for fraud).

 

[SparkyJJO]

That's right- just re-assert the same stuff over and over again, as if repetition will make it the truth. It's currently very much in vogue on the Right, largely because they're unwilling to face up to the utter failure of their ideology and governance....

Why don't you face up to your own failings? Not like you've fixed anything. Are you denying that SS in its current state is broken?

How old are you and what have you've done to be set for retirement?

Not that it is any of your business, but I'm 23 and I have an IRA, and a percentage of every paycheck goes into it. And the company matches it. That's how it should be, save for your own future, if you don't, you're stupid.

 

[Fingolfin269]

That's how it should be, save for your own future, if you don't, you're stupid.

Well said.

 

[spidey07]

The 1st fix....take all SS benefits away from anyone who has a lot of assets (e.g., $3 million plus) within the past 7 years (i.e., to prevent moving assets for fraud).

Why are you stealing my money? That is money I put into SS and belongs to me. The only way to do as you propose would be allow people to opt out of social security completely. Otherwise you are just flat stealing people's money to give to others who didn't prepare for retirement properly. 3 million to retire on right now is not a whole lot of money and no matter what you make that figure, you're still stealing peoples money to give to those that made bad decisions (didn't save for retirement).

 

[Craig234]

As you said, there are all kinds of fixes available to tweak SS. Which of those fixes do you support?

The question before which tweaks, is that there are tweaks to pick from to adjust SS and keep it solvent, that we should, that you aren't going to 'get nothing'.

There's no point in discussing which tweaks unless we have address those questions.

Are you in agreement with them, and ready to talk about which tweaks?

 

[Fingolfin269]

The question before which tweaks, is that there are tweaks to pick from to adjust SS and keep it solvent, that we should, that you aren't going to 'get nothing'.

There's no point in discussing which tweaks unless we have address those questions.

Are you in agreement with them, and ready to talk about which tweaks?

Talk about the tweaks. Or respond with yet another question. Your call.

 

[IGBT]

watch what happens when the obama tax cartel puts the arm to your earned income next year. the time out of your life to earn income means nothing to your obama. earned income confiscation starts in January.

 

[Jhhnn]

Why don't you face up to your own failings? Not like you've fixed anything. Are you denying that SS in its current state is broken?

It's not unsalvageable. What Righties suggest is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I've identified the real problem, which isn't SS, at all, but rather all the other debt run up to enable taxcuts for the financial elite. Boomers have paid extra into SS for decades, part and parcel of the basic Reagan/Greenspan deception of establishing a surplus in the SS trusts in the first place. If SS were the only federal debt, it wouldn't concern us in the slightest.

Not that it is any of your business, but I'm 23 and I have an IRA, and a percentage of every paycheck goes into it. And the company matches it. That's how it should be, save for your own future, if you don't, you're stupid.

Good for you, even if you mistake investment for saving. IRA's are not savings. If you're half as smart as you think you are, you'll actually save after tax money in FDIC insured accounts, as well.

Unfortunately, lots of people won't either be quite so wise or lucky, and we'll end up taking care of them anyway. SS is a reasonable way to accomplish that, and part of a sound retirement strategy for people who do plan ahead.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

As you said, there are all kinds of fixes available to tweak SS. Which of those fixes do you support?

They basically fall under 3 categories:

1) Raise the retirement age

2) Reduce benefits

3) Raise taxes

There's variations, but these are the simplified approaches.

I should mention that Social Security had a crisis in the 1980s when there were dire warnings SS was going to run out....sure enough it was "fixed" (ie retirement age was raised), and it continued on for a few more decades....

 

[Jhhnn]

They basically fall under 3 categories:

1) Raise the retirement age

2) Reduce benefits

3) Raise taxes

There's variations, but these are the simplified approaches.

I should mention that Social Security had a crisis in the 1980s when there were dire warnings SS was going to run out....sure enough it was "fixed" (ie retirement age was raised), and it continued on for a few more decades....

Contributions by working americans were also raised hugely... and SS benefits themselves became taxable under Saint Ronnie's guidance...

 

[SparkyJJO]

It's not unsalvageable. What Righties suggest is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I've identified the real problem, which isn't SS, at all, but rather all the other debt run up to enable taxcuts for the financial elite. Boomers have paid extra into SS for decades, part and parcel of the basic Reagan/Greenspan deception of establishing a surplus in the SS trusts in the first place. If SS were the only federal debt, it wouldn't concern us in the slightest.

You harp on me for repeating the same thing over and over again, then you go and do the same thing, whining about the "financial elite" i.e. "rich" people that you hate so much. Good job.

Good for you, even if you mistake investment for saving. IRA's are not savings. If you're half as smart as you think you are, you'll actually save after tax money in FDIC insured accounts, as well.

Unfortunately, lots of people won't either be quite so wise or lucky, and we'll end up taking care of them anyway. SS is a reasonable way to accomplish that, and part of a sound retirement strategy for people who do plan ahead.

I don't even know why I should bother responding to you, given you've already resorted to name-calling. I'm no idiot.

Right now, I cannot afford to do much, but at least I have an IRA. More than I can say for a lot of people my age (or even older). Besides, it is a diversified portfolio as well, so it isn't reliant on just one or two different investments. Will I put some money into a savings account? I suppose, but the rate of return is pretty low on something like that. And honestly, the FDIC insured stuff irks me a little bit as it would be using taxpayer money to bail out stuff.

 

[WackyDan]

Here is my take, some of it based on fact, life experience, and my opinion. Make of it what you will.

SS was never meant to be a retirement safety net. The lawmakers that crafted it back in the day should have gotten "excellence in marketing" awards for selling the american public nothing but a Tax. They knew what revenue it would bring in for several decades, and they foamed at the mouth to spend it.

SS helped fund the cold war, the highway system, and the very internet we use to access this site. A lot of good came from that spending, but that spending was by lawmakers who for the most part are dead and gone now. They never cared that they started or continued something that would eventually help send our economy closer to the drain. The ones that remain are equally to blame but smaller in number.

George W Bush had the right idea about partially privatising SS. While there are many here that call that a stupid idea, the facts do not lie. SS benefits return on average 3% gain over what you have paid into the system. Those same founds invested in stable growth funds/indexed to the market would return no worse than 3% and if history is a lesson here, would probably return closer to 5% over the course of a working career. Yes, the stock market goes up, and it goes down on a regular if unpredictable basis, but people's short term fear of the market should not be confused with 40+ years of working and having that constant gain in investment. If you fear the markets that much, it is likely you also have no savings, and no plan for retirement.

Senator John Kerry called TEA party folks and conservatives hypocrites about two months ago for decrying socialism yet clinging to SS as an entitlement. What he failed to remember, is that for the past 24 years, I've had SS taxes taken from my pay involuntarily. If he wants, he can refund me that money. I'll gladly take it without interest and invest it myself in a mutual fund and turn it into something useful. At least if I controlled part of that money, it could be left for my family to pay the debt of my estate, bury me, or a small inheritance. The way SS works now, if I die early, tens of thousands of dollars that I paid into the system has no benefit to myself my family. Of course, if I die early, those same funds pay for my 40 year neighbor who is on SS disability, yet can still seem to mow his lawn every 3 days, smoke a pack a day, and generally be a loser. Get it?

George Bush had his faults, but what he advocated in the partial privatisation of SS was potentially the best fix for a broken system. People would have automatically been enrolled into various funds, and that money would have been all theirs at retirement age, or their families if they died early.

Now, let me tell you one more thing. The other big lie ever sold to us was 401k's. Nobody... I repeat nobody has ever retired on a 401k in history and the first generation that has had a 401k available since they started their adult work (18 to 22) isn't even close to retirement. While a 401k may work great if you work at the same company for 36 to 40 years, and aren't buried in so much student loans and living expenses that you can actually contribute.....That just isn't the reality.

Reality is that you will leave a rash of 401k's behind in your wake as you move from job to job, with the need to eventually roll them over, taking a hit with the fees every time...

401k's were a fix by corporations (who lobbied for them as well) to rid themselves of what they already were seeing as un-sustainable existing pension plans.

Anyway.. I digress. SS is important for today's citizens as it may very well be the only thing that keeps you afloat as you try to live off your measly 401k savings. Again, those measly 401k savings are not the fault of the market, but the fault of a system gamed against the worker.

Oh.. and if it matters... I'm a conservative.

 

[umbrella39]

After the baby boomers die, there will be no money left for the current people in their 20s. Doesn't that sound a bit outrageous?

No, it sounds like your binky just hit the floor. Whhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

 

[ModestGamer]

Social Security SHOULD be destroyed. Right now, it has enough money to service the baby boomers for the 30 years they wont be working(I.E. not being productive). Thats it. After the baby boomers die, there will be no money left for the current people in their 20s. Doesn't that sound a bit outrageous? Paying people for 30 years of their lives to not work?

It would be cheaper and far more cost effective to pay mcdonals and burger king to deliver 3 meals a day. they'd be dead in 5 years or less. SS role clearing problem solved.

Lots of booze and cigarettes to. Free !

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

And what happens if you lose it all like in the case of Enron...?

and what if you have zero financial responsibility and rack up credit card debt every month and live paycheck to paycheck taking paycheck advances too?

is the government supposed to bail you out too?

Look, if you're worried about people cutting up their own safety net, then impose restrictions. Hell, if you wanted me to invest in government bonds only and get a 1% return that's fine. That'll be a SS equivalent, but at least make it MY own money like a 401k and let me watch it grow as each paycheck goes to it and every year it gets a decent return.

The fact is a PAYGO system is just fail. People need to start being accountable for their own money. The PAYGO system just results in government borrowing massive loads of money from the SS fund and just paying it back with the general fund. It's retarded.

SS is not nearly the problem Medicare is. That's what we aught to be talking about.

I think it's because SS costs more at the moment, but with booming medical expenses, I think Medicare is gonna be the bigger trainwreck soon. Either way, PAYGO systems are destined to fail in the long run. It's like a roller coaster that keeps going higher and higher... just wait for that fall.