Obama caving in on Bush tax cuts for Top2%?

[JEDI]

heard on the radio while driving that congressional Dems are considering a proposal to EXTEND the Bush tax cuts as long as the tax revenue still comes from the Top2% but in the form of eliminateing loopholes and deductions.

eliminating loopholes and deductions on the rich is a joke.

I hope Obama doesnt cave in on killing the Bush tax cuts.

 

[techs]

I haven't heard it.
Checked some of the web and can't find it.
btw isn't Obama in Burma?

 

[Jhhnn]

heard on the radio while driving that congressional Dems are considering a proposal to EXTEND the Bush tax cuts as long as the tax revenue still comes from the Top2% but in the form of eliminateing loopholes and deductions.

eliminating loopholes and deductions on the rich is a joke.

I hope Obama doesnt cave in on killing the Bush tax cuts.

Well, if they consider preferential tax rates of LTCG's, dividends, interest & carried interest to be loopholes, I'd go along with it. If they consider the SS cutoff at $112K to be a loophole, I think they'd have a point.

Probably not, huh?

Dems can't afford to cave on this- the truly wealthy must be made to pay more, not just the upper class, the rest of the top 2%. They muffed a historic opportunity in 2008, and I'm sure that still hurts after the losses of 2010. The vast majority of Americans support raising taxes at the top, and smoke & mirrors won't get it.

If Repubs won't deal sensibly about raising taxes at the top, fuck 'em- let all the Bush cuts expire, make 'em own it, fight for restoration of middle class cuts afterwards.

Don't negotiate with hostage takers.

 

[techs]

When was the last time you heard of a tax loophole being proposed?
You probably haven't.
If we close some then they will just quietly open others. That is why it MUST be the tax rate that goes up.

 

[wuliheron]

Eliminating the tax loopholes isn't a joke, but if Obama caves in now on the Bush tax cuts the party will lose all credibility.

 

[michal1980]

Well, if they consider preferential tax rates of LTCG's, dividends, interest & carried interest to be loopholes, I'd go along with it. If they consider the SS cutoff at $112K to be a loophole, I think they'd have a point.

Probably not, huh?

Dems can't afford to cave on this- the truly wealthy must be made to pay more, not just the upper class, the rest of the top 2%. They muffed a historic opportunity in 2008, and I'm sure that still hurts after the losses of 2010. The vast majority of Americans support raising taxes at the top, and smoke & mirrors won't get it.

If Repubs won't deal sensibly about raising taxes at the top, fuck 'em- let all the Bush cuts expire, make 'em own it, fight for restoration of middle class cuts afterwards.

Don't negotiate with hostage takers.

there is no SS cutoff loophole.

 

[tweaker2]

The loopholes and deductions that will be gotten rid of will automatically spawn other loopholes and deductions and kick in (with full retroactives) if the higher tier of loopholes and deductions are eliminated. Such is the very nature of loopholes and deductions as duplicitously authored by our corrupted politicians.

Ergo, absolutely NO messing around with loopholes and deductions. They are the absolute epitomy of how the rich surrepticiously collude with their bought and paid for politicians.

It would be like a a guy trying to stuff an angry 20 lb. octopus back into a container that already had an equally large and angry eel waiting for it in the shadows.

 

[Anarchist420]

The govt could get almost as much revenue if all CG taxes were eliminated.

I think the Republicans will cave though.

the food stamps go to merchants, the medicare goes to doctors, the contractors get richer and the justices and bureaucrats in D.C. (IP, copyright/patent courts, FBI agents, border trade revenue cutters, FDA agents, TSA agents to get pleasure from squeezing butts, boobs, and balls) will be rewarded for screwing things up. Long story short, the ruling class wants to tax people who make more so those same people can continue to make more... enough is never enough.

 

[Jhhnn]

there is no SS cutoff loophole.

I figured you'd see it that way.

 

[shira]

heard on the radio while driving that congressional Dems are considering a proposal to EXTEND the Bush tax cuts as long as the tax revenue still comes from the Top2% but in the form of eliminateing loopholes and deductions.

eliminating loopholes and deductions on the rich is a joke.

I hope Obama doesnt cave in on killing the Bush tax cuts.

It doesn't matter HOW taxes on the wealthy are increased, as long as they pay are significantly increased. For example, if you keep the Bush tax brackets but limit deductions to $50,000, almost all of the new tax revenue will come from the wealthy.

If keeping the tax rates the same while changing other tax rules will result in the top 2% paying significantly more taxes while allowing the right wing to save face, why should anyone care?

 

[the DRIZZLE]

When was the last time you heard of a tax loophole being proposed?
You probably haven't.
If we close some then they will just quietly open others. That is why it MUST be the tax rate that goes up.

By that logic they will just open more loopholes if they raise rates so the whole exercise in pointless.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

I figured you'd see it that way.

If you think that the SS cap is a loophole then you must think that SS is welfare rather than a savings or insurance program. If it is the latter there is no justification for taxing wages beyond the point were additional benefits are given.

I actually do believe that SS is an important tool for forcing people to save for retirement but I don't want to see it turned into a welfare program by further decoupling the payroll tax from benefits. However, it seems that this is inevitable.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

While the % the top few has is high, they % they pay is high too.

The middle class is the only place to find the income we need to cover our bills.

A VAT with a universal pre-bate of taxes equal to about 20k/family of 3 is just about the only way out of this mess without undue burdens on those that can least afford it.

Also, paying poor people to live in the highest cost-of-living locations makes no sense and the implicit racism of gheto-ing the poor into the inner city is morally indefensible and ridiculously expensive.

I think a flat tax with a massive, flat, pre-bate could be used to remove the need for things like social-security/medicade/foostamps

A family of 3 is above the poverty level at 20k/y so a 20% VAT pre-bating 20k/y would not raise taxes on a family spending less than 100k/y while justifying removal of gov-sub housing, food stamps, wic, etc.

If you live in a place where a family of 3 can't make it on 20k/y then you should move to another part of the country: no one has a right to live in LA.

 

[Jhhnn]

If you think that the SS cap is a loophole then you must think that SS is welfare rather than a savings or insurance program. If it is the latter there is no justification for taxing wages beyond the point were additional benefits are given.

I actually do believe that SS is an important tool for forcing people to save for retirement but I don't want to see it turned into a welfare program by further decoupling the payroll tax from benefits. However, it seems that this is inevitable.

Well, it seems obvious that the $2.5T+ held in the trusts will necessarily have to be honored, and also that working people below the current cutoff won't be able to support that from contributions alone, due to the demographic bulge of the Boomers. Therefore, the difference will have to come from somewhere else. That was known when contributions were increased under Reagan. The money has to come from somewhere.

Might as well get if from those most able to pay, and from those whose own taxes have been cut over the last 30 years in response to the increased funds made available from raising SS taxes on working people.

If we want SS to continue to exist, it has to be funded, and self funding is the best answer.

Cue the usual anti-SS rants from people who probably won't have anything else when they retire...

 

[Brovane]

If you think that the SS cap is a loophole then you must think that SS is welfare rather than a savings or insurance program. If it is the latter there is no justification for taxing wages beyond the point were additional benefits are given.

I actually do believe that SS is an important tool for forcing people to save for retirement but I don't want to see it turned into a welfare program by further decoupling the payroll tax from benefits. However, it seems that this is inevitable.

:thumbsup:

That is the part that a lot of people don't seem to understand. Is there a justification for taxing wages beyond the point where additional benefits are given? I have yet to receive a straight answer on all those studies that say we could eliminate the SS deficit by taxing all wages. Do the studies actually give any additional benefits for the wages being taxed? Or is it just tax the wages and no additional benefits are given.

 

[Brovane]

Well, it seems obvious that the $2.5T+ held in the trusts will necessarily have to be honored, and also that working people below the current cutoff won't be able to support that from contributions alone, due to the demographic bulge of the Boomers. Therefore, the difference will have to come from somewhere else. That was known when contributions were increased under Reagan. The money has to come from somewhere.

Might as well get if from those most able to pay, and from those whose own taxes have been cut over the last 30 years in response to the increased funds made available from raising SS taxes on working people.

If we want SS to continue to exist, it has to be funded, and self funding is the best answer.

Cue the usual anti-SS rants from people who probably won't have anything else when they retire...

Actually realistically everyone's taxes have been cut.

Also just because you make over $112k a year doesn't mean you are rich and most able to pay.

 

[Jhhnn]

It doesn't matter HOW taxes on the wealthy are increased, as long as they pay are significantly increased. For example, if you keep the Bush tax brackets but limit deductions to $50,000, almost all of the new tax revenue will come from the wealthy.

If keeping the tax rates the same while changing other tax rules will result in the top 2% paying significantly more taxes while allowing the right wing to save face, why should anyone care?

Because taxes will be even more regressive within the top 1%, given that the ultra wealthy derive their income from LTCG's, dividends, interest & carried interest, which is currently taxed at 15%. Those rates must go up to maintain (create) a truly progressive tax regimen.

 

[Brovane]

Because taxes will be even more regressive within the top 1%, given that the ultra wealthy derive their income from LTCG's, dividends, interest & carried interest, which is currently taxed at 15%. Those rates must go up to maintain (create) a truly progressive tax regimen.

Lets just go back to treating this as ordinary income and tax appropriately.

 

[IGBT]

what about YOUR home mortgage deduction and dependent deduction..that "loop hole" should go too. It's "fair" and equatable.

 

[randomrogue]

How about lowering expenses?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

what about YOUR home mortgage deduction and dependent deduction..that "loop hole" should go too. It's "fair" and equatable.

if you keep any deductions you end up with infinite deductions. allowing the AMT to lower down onto the middle-class is the only 'out' of these silly deductions.

 

[Nemesis 1]

heard on the radio while driving that congressional Dems are considering a proposal to EXTEND the Bush tax cuts as long as the tax revenue still comes from the Top2% but in the form of eliminateing loopholes and deductions.

eliminating loopholes and deductions on the rich is a joke.

I hope Obama doesnt cave in on killing the Bush tax cuts.

LOL This deal was made along time ago . The drama is nothing but show . The best thing is the cliff. But now it will be no tax raise and enlitlements will be cut . and defense will get a boost. Just like if Romney won . Same game differant faces .

 

[bradley]

Eliminating the tax loopholes isn't a joke, but if Obama caves in now on the Bush tax cuts the party will lose all credibility.

We have been intensely privatizing gains and socializing losses for the last two Presidents.

Obviously, neither side wants a fair system. This has been the plan all along. We live under the most convenient form of capitalism and Marxism.

 

[nehalem256]

It doesn't matter HOW taxes on the wealthy are increased, as long as they pay are significantly increased. For example, if you keep the Bush tax brackets but limit deductions to $50,000, almost all of the new tax revenue will come from the wealthy.

If keeping the tax rates the same while changing other tax rules will result in the top 2% paying significantly more taxes while allowing the right wing to save face, why should anyone care?

Because according to liberals only what the top marginal rate is matters.

 

[Genx87]

heard on the radio while driving that congressional Dems are considering a proposal to EXTEND the Bush tax cuts as long as the tax revenue still comes from the Top2% but in the form of eliminateing loopholes and deductions.

eliminating loopholes and deductions on the rich is a joke.

I hope Obama doesnt cave in on killing the Bush tax cuts.

Why is eliminating loopholes and deductions on the rich a joke? If Obama truely said that and democrats are open to it bravo to them.