Obama announces "reforms" to the spying program

[nixium]

... all the while still maintaining Snowden's is a traitor and a wanted felon.

Really, Mr. President? So if not for Snowden, these "reforms" would have been done anyway? By announcing them, you are de-facto conceding his point, no matter how you try using your sleazy hardvard law school tactics to spin it into "assuring" the american people.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...orce-obamas-hand-on-surveillance-program?lite

I used to have respect for this guy, but now no more... just another thug in fancy clothes with a fancy degree.

 

[gevorg]

This is not about Obama. This is about the whole system. They need to present a better blue pill now...

More on the "reforms": The NSA Intends To Fire 90% Of Their System Administrators To Eliminate Future Leaks

 

[futurefields]

Lol. "We're gonna reform our program that allows us to spy on you."

How can anybody believe anything anymore? It's all a joke to me, but maybe I am being too cynical.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This will be the most transparent surveillance program ever. You have O's word on it, and Feinstein will make sure it happens.

Right.

 

[UglyCasanova]

But, but, he said he already called for an investigation before Snowden went public. He was already on it. The guy's got our back, ya'll don't worry.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'd rather have a reform proposal than not have one. I'm not really sure what it will consist of and whether it will improve the situation or not, but it's better to at least have something on the table.

 

[DougK62]

This is just to placate the public temporarily. Nothing will change.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I'd rather have a reform proposal than not have one. I'm not really sure what it will consist of and whether it will improve the situation or not, but it's better to at least have something on the table.

Personally, I'd rather see a real social movement against this a la Occupy or the Tea Party rather than having our trusted government officials take care of this through "investigations" and "reform". But that's just me.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'd rather have a reform proposal than not have one. I'm not really sure what it will consist of and whether it will improve the situation or not, but it's better to at least have something on the table.

As I've said elsewhere it seems like the foxes are planning hen house reforms.

It's a case of credibility. Have a look at the EFF website, which I found to be an eye opener. One can say anything one likes (and it seems that truth isn't a necessity in this case) but that doesn't mean it's much more than damage control. I'll wait and see what's proposed, but the leopard will have to change its spots IMO.

 

[Theb]

This is not about Obama. This is about the whole system. They need to present a better blue pill now...

More on the "reforms": The NSA Intends To Fire 90% Of Their System Administrators To Eliminate Future Leaks

I thought that was going to be an Onion article.

 

[Screech]

This is just to placate the public temporarily. Nothing will change.

Annnnnddddd I think we have a winner.

 

[Fern]

Liar:

Obama defended the existing program as recently as Tuesday, stating flatly during an interview with comedian Jay Leno that “we don’t have a domestic spying program.”

How about we forgo some groups looking over the NSA's shoulder and just stop the domestic spying programs. Just switch to a "2 degrees" program like other NSA professionals recommend.

Fern

 

[woolfe9998]

As I've said elsewhere it seems like the foxes are planning hen house reforms.

It's a case of credibility. Have a look at the EFF website, which I found to be an eye opener. One can say anything one likes (and it seems that truth isn't a necessity in this case) but that doesn't mean it's much more than damage control. I'll wait and see what's proposed, but the leopard will have to change its spots IMO.

I'm not convinced of the government's credibility regarding these various covert activities either. I'm just saying I'd rather have a reform proposal than not and that I don't consider this bad news. If the proposal goes through Congress, it should spark debate and further public engagement. Obama is probably proposing this as damage control, but the motive doesn't interest me so much as process and result.

 

[OrByte]

yeah that is just what I want...for the Fed to be able to spy on us "better"

 

[woolfe9998]

Personally, I'd rather see a real social movement against this a la Occupy or the Tea Party rather than having our trusted government officials take care of this through "investigations" and "reform". But that's just me.

You're definitely correct that we need louder voices amongst the public on this topic, and less complacency. However, the best such opposition can achieve is reform, which only the government can do. I think in this case the polling is starting to show concern among a majority of Americans, and this has prompted the administration to make these proposals for political reasons. I don't really see any other way the situation can change.

 

[irishScott]

Personally, I'd rather see a real social movement against this a la Occupy or the Tea Party rather than having our trusted government officials take care of this through "investigations" and "reform". But that's just me.

Occupy didn't come about until after the economy was wrecked, the tea party barely existed before Obama ran for President, PRISM will not spawn a similar social uprising until it is severely abused.


As for Obama's "reforms", I'd like to see it as a good sign, but exactly how many times has Obama promised hope, change and transparency and delivered a cart of rotten turnips? His word, like most politicians, is bunk. If he follows through on this in any serious fashion I, sadly, will be shocked.

 

[irishScott]

I thought that was going to be an Onion article.

Granted I'm not an IT specialist, but unless the NSA is just extremely behind the times I can't see how firing 90% of their system admins and replacing them with what amounts to crude AI is going to do anything other than hamper efficiency and effectiveness. It's like trying to build a robotic car on a national scale.

I'm recalling an article about SOPA that mentioned how the upper levels of politicians have this impression that any technical problem can be solved with enough resources. This would seem to be the product of said mentality.

 

[gevorg]

The Onion article will appear when one of the fired admins will become a new whistleblower.

 

[TerryMathews]

This is not about Obama. This is about the whole system. They need to present a better blue pill now...

More on the "reforms": The NSA Intends To Fire 90% Of Their System Administrators To Eliminate Future Leaks

Why isn't it a story that the NSA CAN lay off 90% of their sysadmins?

Hello McFly! I just solved the sequestration issue. Turns out, the NSA was staffed 10x over on sysadmins.

 

[Bowfinger]

Occupy didn't come about until after the economy was wrecked, the tea party barely existed before Obama ran for President, PRISM will not spawn a similar social uprising until it is severely abused.


As for Obama's "reforms", I'd like to see it as a good sign, but exactly how many times has Obama promised hope, change and transparency and delivered a cart of rotten turnips? His word, like most politicians, is bunk. If he follows through on this in any serious fashion I, sadly, will be shocked.

Even more, how can we be confident it's really reformed, as opposed to simply being driven back underground? The Obama administration has zero credibility left on this issue, as does Congress, the NSA, and all the other agencies that have proven they're willing to blatantly lie about their activities.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

This is not about Obama. This is about the whole system. They need to present a better blue pill now...

More on the "reforms": The NSA Intends To Fire 90% Of Their System Administrators To Eliminate Future Leaks

Well there is the reform. As in reforming your army of sysadmins to ensure none of them ever open their mouths again so that you may wantonly violate the 4th amendment without fear of any future leaks from that side of your agency. Meanwhile you shuffle out the president to push the "feeling" of transparency onto a largely gullible and uninformed public via co-opted press.

 

[Fern]

I'd rather have a reform proposal than not have one. I'm not really sure what it will consist of and whether it will improve the situation or not, but it's better to at least have something on the table.

woolfe9998, what about this "proposal" do you find attractive?

Let me quote it:

Obama said the changes will include changes to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court system -- which currently greenlights requests for data gathering -- as well as the creation of both an internal NSA position devoted to privacy and an external working group to evaluate transparency in the program. Officials will also launch a new website next week that will serve as “a hub for further transparency” for interested members of the public.

For those of us who believe that collecting our data, phone calls emails and such, without probable cause is a gross violation of our 4th how does the above rectify that in the least?

It doesn't, and I think you'll agree.

And the above description of the proposal is so utterly vague that, IMO, it tells us nothing.

"Changes to the FISA court system"? What changes? What's the objective of the changes?

"An internal NSA position devoted to privacy? The NSA obviously has no idea what "privacy" means. They don't see what they're currently doing as any invasion of privacy. How can they be expected to be an arbiter of privacy? And it's more of same: We'll be holding our own selves accountable. It's like the DoJ investing the DoJ.

An "external group to evaluate transparency in the program"? Heck, congresspersons have remarked that can't discuss the NSA programs. Even if some external group gets clearance what are they going to be able to disclose? I find it hard to see how the concept of "transparency" can be applied in any meaningful way with classified program(s). At this point it smells like BS to me.

Fern

 

[Nintendesert]

Even more, how can we be confident it's really reformed, as opposed to simply being driven back underground? The Obama administration has zero credibility left on this issue, as does Congress, the NSA, and all the other agencies that have proven they're willing to blatantly lie about their activities.

I agree with you, this is why to me it's so saddening and shocking that more people don't care we run such a level of secret courts/investigations/spying etc.

There is absolutely no oversight and no way to ensure the system doesn't abuse its citizens. There's no way to confirm what we're being told is true and in the case of the NSA they simply outright lie to Congress along with the President recently claiming we don't spy on American citizens on Jay Leno.

I can't even imagine the type of information kept in some of these databases on people and due to the secret nature of these databases there is absolutely no way to ensure or verify that the information is even accurate. Secret trials and decisions along with executions are being made based on secrets that have no way of being vetted.

We in America have gone full retard since 9/11.

 

[woolfe9998]

woolfe9998, what about this "proposal" do you find attractive?

Let me quote it:



For those of us who believe that collecting our data, phone calls emails and such, without probable cause is a gross violation of our 4th how does the above rectify that in the least?

It doesn't, and I think you'll agree.

And the above description of the proposal is so utterly vague that, IMO, it tells us nothing.

"Changes to the FISA court system"? What changes? What's the objective of the changes?

"An internal NSA position devoted to privacy? The NSA obviously has no idea what "privacy" means. They don't see what they're currently doing as any invasion of privacy. How can they be expected to be an arbiter of privacy? And it's more of same: We'll be holding our own selves accountable. It's like the DoJ investing the DoJ.

An "external group to evaluate transparency in the program"? Heck, congresspersons have remarked that can't discuss the NSA programs. Even if some external group gets clearance what are they going to be able to disclose? I find it hard to see how the concept of "transparency" can be applied in any meaningful way with classified program(s). At this point it smells like BS to me.

Fern

If this is just Obama, saying "trust me, I'll implement reforms of this general nature" then it's worthless. My impression is he's talking about something which becomes legislation, in which case at some point it will have to be more specific. At this stage, you're right, it is too vague to even evaluate. And if this is all it ever is, then it does nothing for me.

 

[werepossum]

Liar:



How about we forgo some groups looking over the NSA's shoulder and just stop the domestic spying programs. Just switch to a "2 degrees" program like other NSA professionals recommend.

Fern

LOL "We don't have a domestic spying program, and anyway I'm proposing to reform it!"