Obama and Treasury dept. rewriting parts of ACA

[Texashiker]

There is nothing vague about the effective date.

So what's the actual effective date? I want to set an alarm for it.

Oh you don't have one? I rest my case.

If there was no date specified for the employer mandate to start, that part was put in to appease the public.

The president nor congress had any intentions of forcing employers to supply insurance.

I suspect a loophole was intentionally put in the law so companies could avoid the employer mandate as long as possible.

 

[ivwshane]

Pick a month. Does it start after 12/31/13? Then it applies. It is quite simple.

Well, February 2015 starts after 12/2013, by my calculations that's about 13 months! Quite simple indeed!

 

[sactoking]

(d) EFFECTIVE DATE - The amendments made by this section shall apply to months beginning after December 31, 2013.

is not the same as

(d) EFFECTIVE DATE - The amendments made by this section shall apply starting in a month beginning after December 31, 2013.

The first says "this applies to all months starting after 12/31/13" and the second says "this applies sometime after 12/31/13."

 

[sactoking]

I suspect a loophole was intentionally put in the law so companies could avoid the employer mandate as long as possible.

This isn't an effective date loophole. The effective date is clear: 1/1/14. Instead, the White House is using IRS and Treasury's "transitory relief" privilege to administratively delay enforcement.

 

[ivwshane]

Lol, keep spinning!

The law is vague in this instance, get over it. The fact that you couldn't point to a specific date shows how vague the law is.

Your interpretation is just that, yours.

 

[spacejamz]

Well, February 2015 starts after 12/2013, by my calculations that's about 13 months! Quite simple indeed!

They were in such a hurry to pass it and force it down everyone's throats as fast as humanly possible but somehow you think just for this particular section, they really wanted it enforced in 2015/2016??

 

[sactoking]

You're being obtuse.

What's the effective date of the individual mandate? 1/1/14?

(a) REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE - An applicable individual shall file for each month beginning after 2013...

What's the effective date of the prohibition on preexisting conditions? Premium rate reform? Guaranteed availability of coverage? Guaranteed renewability? Prohibiting discrimination based on health status? Prohibition on waiting periods? They're all 1/1/14?

This subtitle shall become effective for plan years beginning on or after January 1, 2014...

When do the tax credits begin? 2014?

Subject to subclause (II), in the case of taxable years beginning in any calendar year after 2014...

Using the interpretation you espouse would give the ridiculous result that, to quote Captain Barbosa speaking of The Code, "They're more guidelines instead of rules." So because 3045 is a calendar year after 2014 that means the tax credits can be delayed 1030 years because the effective date is "vague"? No.

 

[boomerang]

You're being obtuse.

Yeah, but he thinks he's being smart and clever. If you enjoy arguing, carry on. Some people enjoy it, I get that. But know that you're arguing with a dim bulb.

 

[ivwshane]

You're being obtuse.

What's the effective date of the individual mandate? 1/1/14?



What's the effective date of the prohibition on preexisting conditions? Premium rate reform? Guaranteed availability of coverage? Guaranteed renewability? Prohibiting discrimination based on health status? Prohibition on waiting periods? They're all 1/1/14?



When do the tax credits begin? 2014?



Using the interpretation you espouse would give the ridiculous result that, to quote Captain Barbosa speaking of The Code, "They're more guidelines instead of rules." So because 3045 is a calendar year after 2014 that means the tax credits can be delayed 1030 years because the effective date is "vague"? No.

I didn't say it was logical, I said it was vague. Pointing to other parts of the law that have gone into effect that also had vague dates doesn't change that. I know what you want it to mean but that doesn't change anything.

 

[ivwshane]

Yeah, but he thinks he's being smart and clever. If you enjoy arguing, carry on. Some people enjoy it, I get that. But know that you're arguing with a dim bulb.

I may be dim but at least my bulb is lit, unlike you who lives in the dark talking to yourself.

Go add zero to some other thread, your non added value isn't needed here

 

[sactoking]

Yeah, but he thinks he's being smart and clever. If you enjoy arguing, carry on. Some people enjoy it, I get that. But know that you're arguing with a dim bulb.

Yeah, I'm done with this. I know what's going on because not only is it my job, but I have personally written bills with effective dates just like this and know how the legalese and process works.

 

[MagickMan]

Here's Dear Leader railing on about the abuse of executive privilege by the man responsible for all of his problems, G.W. Bush. He vows to change that. Riiiight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3IWq3CXHyc

This bears repeating. He's the poster child for hypocrisy in American politics and a pathetic excuse for a leader.

 

[werepossum]

He's changed this law 27 times without involving Congress. Let's just keep letting these things pile up until the case against Obama is so great that it can't be ignored. He's being a very willing accomplice in his own demise. Taking back the Senate is key. Impeachment proceedings I would imagine will start immediately after the swearing in. Patience, patience.

This is actually playing out perfectly because the key to winning back the Senate for Repubs is to hammer, hammer, hammer using Obamacare as the mallet. Look how many Democrats have decided not to run. They don't want to have to defend this law in an election as well as not wanting to have to defend it in real life. They will slink off into obscurity.

This is kind of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. On one hand, the dirty little secret is that the business backend does not work and in fact parts of it haven't even been written yet, so the business end must be conducted manually. No way can Obama grow government enough soon enough to handle every business, so it's not technically possible to ensure that every business is compliant within the scheduled time frame.

On the other hand, clearly he's acting as a dictator by ignoring law. (Remember "Barack is ready to rule on day one"?) An even bigger problem is that insurance companies cannot know what the rules will be until they must enact them - if then. Our company health insurance goes away after June and health insurers have zero interest in talking with our broker because they have no clue how to price small business policies even now, much less four months from now.

From Obama's viewpoint, as long as the media remains on his side it's largely a win-win. He gets to expand his personal power (a goal of pretty much every modern President - remember Bush II's signing statements?), he gets credit for unscrewing part of Obamacare while avoiding an otherwise unavoidable train wreck within the larger train wreck, and he makes substantial progress toward his goal of destroying our private health insurance system.