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Obama and the whole 'african american' thing
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I should probably stop nesting quotations at some point, but I'll leave it for now.
Part of the rationale behind the whole PC movement is that the use of certain terms and descriptors can change the way people tend to think about those things, at least to some degree.
It's why in mental health, for example, professionals are moving away from labeling people as schizophrenic or depressed, and are instead saying "people with schizophrenia" or "people with depression" to drive home the point that these are people first, and that their illnesses do not define them.
But as with anything, these trends can be taken too far.
This.
I'm sure many non-white people want race to not matter and then realized that it was always going to matter because people were always going to treat them differently. You can't tell these people that race doesn't matter; it's influenced the course of their whole lives.
The terminology is definitely fucked six ways from Sunday. But the experiences that the terminology refers to---those experiences matter.
sandorski
No Lifer
Good point. Society as a whole has progressed very much in terms of Tolerance, because of "PC". Until the '70's all sorts of People were Institutionalized and/or hidden to a great extent due to various Disabilities both Mental and Physical. "PC" gave them distinction and expanded the World View of Society as a whole to the point where many diverse peoples became normalized within Society.
Though I was accused of "Generalizing", not that I wasn't, the Generalizations prior to "PC" were much more entrenched and hurtful.
AstroManLuca
Lifer
What I think is funny is that most "African-Americans" have had ancestors in the Americas for much, much longer than I have. My father was born in Italy, while on my mother's side, I have to go back to my great-grandparents, who were born in the Czech Republic and Ukraine sometime around the late 19th century.
Most black people in the U.S., though, can trace their American roots back hundreds of years, perhaps to as early as the 17th century. In some cases, they have to go back to the 1500s to get to their first African ancestors. By that measure, they are much more "American" than I am.
Most black people in the U.S., though, can trace their American roots back hundreds of years, perhaps to as early as the 17th century. In some cases, they have to go back to the 1500s to get to their first African ancestors. By that measure, they are much more "American" than I am.
Exactly. While some of the new PC-ish terms are indeed useless and/or burdensome, many others have likely helped quite a bit in changing people's viewpoint regarding various groups and classes of individuals. If nothing else, they've made us more aware that these groups and classes exist.
soulcougher73
Lifer
I agree with what you said but i have a question on the bolded section. What do most people determine to be the deciding factor in this discussion. Say you and your spouse are from Germany but moved to america and had a baby of full German blood. Is he an Americon or a German living in America? So is it where you are born and live or what nationality your blood line is? And what happens if said baby moves to say France and lives out his days there. Is he German, American or is he now French?
I personally say im an American since i was born here and never lived anywhere else even though my blood line is of various mixed decents.
Just curoius.
sygyzy
Lifer
The thing that bothers me is the people complaining about the "race card" are the very ones playing it and adjusting the definitions to fit them.
People opposing Affirmative Action say: "See, we don't need it, Obama is an African American, and he got elected President, so there is no more racism"
Others say: "I am just an American, period. You don't see me saying Polish American. If you say African American, you are not a patriot/un-American"
You can't have it both ways. You can use his heritage to pat yourselves on the back for electing a black man, then later say race is not important.
People opposing Affirmative Action say: "See, we don't need it, Obama is an African American, and he got elected President, so there is no more racism"
Others say: "I am just an American, period. You don't see me saying Polish American. If you say African American, you are not a patriot/un-American"
You can't have it both ways. You can use his heritage to pat yourselves on the back for electing a black man, then later say race is not important.
hanoverphist
Diamond Member
if you were born in the US but your parents are geman citizens, then youll likely have dual citizenship. at least until youre 18 or so. if that same person chose US over german and then moved to france, they would be a us national living in france, not french. you have to apply for french citizenry to become french i believe, same as here (or probably any other country). my gramma was born here in az, but her two older sisters were born in mexico. my family has only been here for generations (and has done a great job of spreading across the southwest) but i still dont pull the meximerican card at all. i did try to capitalize on it for scholarships, and failed miserably. a couple even told me i didnt look "mexican" enough. i guess hazel eyes and dark blond hair wasnt close enough for the profile. doesnt change the fact that my dad is 100% mexican descent. whatever. i lost my point somewhere above here, sorry.
hanoverphist
Diamond Member
afrikaaner?
StormRider
Diamond Member
Damn if we do, damn if we don't. No matter what we do we are damned.
When I was growing up, people (whites) would ask me where I was from. When I replied, "Maryland" they would say, "No, where did you really come from -- where was your birth country and how did you learn to speak English so well?". I would reply, "Oh, I was born here and my parents came from China".
So, to avoid this typical conversation, we just started calling our-selves "Chinese/Asian-American" to let people know where we came from without going into the above conversation.
Now, we get condemn for using that phrase even though I remember hearing the terms "Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American and German-American" when I was growing up.
It's sort of like how whites would lynch a black if he tried to socialized with whites in college (and a BIG IF the college would even let blacks into the school in the first place). So, blacks started their own "Black Student Union" where they can have a social life without fear of being lynched. But lo and behold, we now get complaints about how blacks are separatists by having these groups and how it's reverse racism.
Most of the things you complain about how minorities behave were caused by the things you did in the past. If we did something one way, we would get harrassed or lynched by some of you. If we do it the other way we would get accused of reverse discrimination by the rest of you.
When I was growing up, people (whites) would ask me where I was from. When I replied, "Maryland" they would say, "No, where did you really come from -- where was your birth country and how did you learn to speak English so well?". I would reply, "Oh, I was born here and my parents came from China".
So, to avoid this typical conversation, we just started calling our-selves "Chinese/Asian-American" to let people know where we came from without going into the above conversation.
Now, we get condemn for using that phrase even though I remember hearing the terms "Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American and German-American" when I was growing up.
It's sort of like how whites would lynch a black if he tried to socialized with whites in college (and a BIG IF the college would even let blacks into the school in the first place). So, blacks started their own "Black Student Union" where they can have a social life without fear of being lynched. But lo and behold, we now get complaints about how blacks are separatists by having these groups and how it's reverse racism.
Most of the things you complain about how minorities behave were caused by the things you did in the past. If we did something one way, we would get harrassed or lynched by some of you. If we do it the other way we would get accused of reverse discrimination by the rest of you.
rh71
No Lifer
^ I've had those experiences... I can't say I'm "American" when they are too. They asked for a reason. And I'm not just asian being born here (just as much as you're not polish if you were born here)... so what does that leave when I'm asked on a survey? I am a young asian-american ffs.
White people aren't asked the same way... you guys dropped it as soon as you were born here because you were never asked again.
White people aren't asked the same way... you guys dropped it as soon as you were born here because you were never asked again.
nublikescake
Senior member
While there are many here who tried to explain why the whole "african american" thing exists, you have nailed it.
America was founded by white people. The founding fathers were all white. Most of the immigrants that migrated to the U.S. in the 17th, 18th and 19th century were white. Consequently, the majority of the U.S. today is white, despite a continuous influx of non-white immigrants and will continue to be for a long time to come. The average "American" was considered to be white before and still is outside of the U.S. As such, the overwhelming majority of non-white Americans living in the U.S. at some point encounter the "XYZ-American" label, either imposed on them by others or as a mark of distinction that they themselves choose to use to achieve a purpose.
moshquerade
No Lifer
😕
nublikescake
Senior member
So if you can't find one to use because you are a typical white American, you instead pick one based on your disposition?
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