Obama and Sacrifices

[Fern]

Edit: Sacrifices enumerated so far:

1. Tax increase. I'm not sure this is much of a sacrifice, at least not for the great majority of people. In fact looks like he's promising most of us a benefit (tax cut). Obama's plan:

Sen. Barack Obama on Tuesday proposed overhauling the tax code to lower taxes for the poor and middle class, increase them for the rich and make it so most Americans can file their taxes in five minutes.

The tax relief plan he envisions for the middle class alone would mean $80 billion or more in tax cuts, he said.

2. Energy Plan. While Obama promises to give us all money ($500/1,000) I suppose a sacrifice could result from his Cap & Trade plan. No doubt that will drive up energy/electrical costs. No word on how much price increase. Also, McCain is for this stupid proposal as well.

Still, this is some pretty slim pickings as far as sacrifices go. And just throwing the word around occasionally doesn't cut it IMO. I think we deserve to know what we're in for in before we cast a vote.


I've asserted that Obama plays up the Hope & Change stuff, others claim Obama has made clear the scarifices he expects from us.

So, assuming everyone else is more aware of these sacrifices than I, I've decided to ask you all to detail the sacrifices you understand Obama will ask of us.

Please be specific (give dollar amounts or percentages where applicable), no need to mention some new Peace Corp thingy either (not to mention I do not consider that a sacrifice from us, it'll be a fairly small number of volunteers and IIRC they'll be fairly well paid).

TIA

Fern

 

[Tab]

H&C? Hannity and Colmes?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fern
I've asserted that Obama plays up the H&C stuff, others claim Obama has made clear the scarifices he expects from us.

So, assuming everyone else is more aware of these sacrifices than I, I've decided to ask you all to detail the sacrifices you understand Obama will ask of us.

Please be specific (give dollar amounts or percentages where applicable), no need to mention some new Peace Corp thingy either (not to mention I do not consider that a sacrifice from us, it'll be a fairly small number of volunteers and IIRC they'll be fairly well paid).

TIA

Fern

Peace Corps volunteers are so so not well paid. You live on basically subsistence wages for the country you live in with a little extra money left over for travel, etc. When you return to the US after two and a half years you get $6,000 to readjust to life here. I wouldn't call that very well paid.

What's strange to me is that you are holding Obama to a much higher standard than you seem to be holding McCain to. Presidential candidates very rarely put out much other than generalities, and McCain is certainly EXTREMELY guilty of this as well. (as has well... pretty much every other candidate ever)

Can you provide a reason as to why he should have to meet this higher standard that no one else seems to? He has outlined a general idea of what he wants to do, and he has repeatedly reminded people in his speeches that this is not free.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Tab
H&C? Hannity and Colmes?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Hope and Change

 

[quest55720]

I expect a big sacrifice for my wallet as my taxes will most likely go up 30%-50%. The single middle class/working class will end up footing the bill for all of Obama's programs. Obama can claim all he wants about going after the rich. They have accountants, lawyers and off shore accounts they will avoid taxes. The poor don't pay taxes and people with kids don't pay taxes. The burden will squarely fall on my shoulders.

I expect to have to sacrifice my air conditioning in the summer because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to keep my house at 58f in the winter because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to sacrifice my incredible health care so Obama can give tens of millions of illegals free health care. I will in general have to sacrifice my standard of living for 4 years. It will be a very hard 4 years if Obama is elected but it will be only 4 years since he will be a 1 term president.

 

[clamum]

I expect to sacrifice money cause of taxes.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
-snip-
Can you provide a reason as to why he should have to meet this higher standard that no one else seems to? He has outlined a general idea of what he wants to do, and he has repeatedly reminded people in his speeches that this is not free.

I've been acussed several times of ignoring the sacrifices that Obama has said we will be called upon to make.

I think it only reasonable then that people enumerate what they are. If no one can, then I contend I'm right.

Otherwise, I see value in people guessing what they are. I see nothing wrong or unfair about trying to get some thoughts together about what we may actually face under his administration. The upside/benefits have been enumerated to death, so let's look at the other side - the costs (sacrifices we will be called to make).

I believe calling for sacrifices in a vague way mostly just ensures no one will think much about it or object to them. IMO, most people just assume it's going to be a sacrifice from the other guy (much like raising taxes on the rich, as we've seen around no one believes themselves to be rich). As regards the Peace Corp thingy; neither you or I are goinna be in it, so it ain't a sacrifice to me unless my taxes are raised to fund it. And if that is the case, I wanna know how much and what I can get in return for it.

Fern

 

[bbdub333]

Can you provide a reason as to why he should have to meet this higher standard that no one else seems to? He has outlined a general idea of what he wants to do, and he has repeatedly reminded people in his speeches that this is not free.

He's running on a platform of drastic change with basically zero experience. When you make big promises, you are naturally going to be held to a higher standard, especially when you just showed up to the ballgame.

 

[cliftonite]

More like what I wont have to sacrifice such as unnecessary wars and ridiculous deficits.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eskimospy
-snip-
Can you provide a reason as to why he should have to meet this higher standard that no one else seems to? He has outlined a general idea of what he wants to do, and he has repeatedly reminded people in his speeches that this is not free.

I've been acussed several times of ignoring the sacrifices that Obama has said we will be called upon to make.

I think it only reasonable then that people enumerate what they are. If no one can, then I contend I'm right.

Otherwise, I see value in people guessing what they are. I see nothing wrong or unfair about trying to get some thoughts together about what we may actually face under his administration. The upside/benefits have been enumerated to death, so let's look at the other side - the costs (sacrifices we will be called to make).

I believe calling for sacrifices in a vague way mostly just ensures no one will think much about it or object to them. IMO, most people just assume it's going to be a sacrifice from the other guy (much like raising taxes on the rich, as we've seen around no one believes themselves to be rich). As regards the Peace Corp thingy; neither you or I are goinna be in it, so it ain't a sacrifice to me unless my taxes are raised to fund it. And if that is the case, I wanna know how much and what I can get in return for it.

Fern

Yet you dont seem concerned about any sacrifices you will have to make under McCain? (he may not have said you will have to make sacrifices but do you believe that things (taxes) can remain the same?) Just seems like another troll/jab at Obama.

 

[Dari]

After 9/11 America should've been in war mode. Instead, the President told us to go shopping. It isn't right for Americans to pretend everything is the same when one of our great cities is burning and our soldiers are about to go fight.

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: quest55720
I expect a big sacrifice for my wallet as my taxes will most likely go up 30%-50%. The single middle class/working class will end up footing the bill for all of Obama's programs. Obama can claim all he wants about going after the rich. They have accountants, lawyers and off shore accounts they will avoid taxes. The poor don't pay taxes and people with kids don't pay taxes. The burden will squarely fall on my shoulders.

I expect to have to sacrifice my air conditioning in the summer because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to keep my house at 58f in the winter because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to sacrifice my incredible health care so Obama can give tens of millions of illegals free health care. I will in general have to sacrifice my standard of living for 4 years. It will be a very hard 4 years if Obama is elected but it will be only 4 years since he will be a 1 term president.

Pure rightwing raving and fearmongering. It's always all about you, right?

Obama's tax proposals don't even raise rates that high for those in the top 1%, and chances are 99 out of 100 you're not one of 'em...

I think those of us at the upper end of incomes, above the 80th percentile, may well be called upon to pay somewhat more, particularly those at the very top. I think that those of us who make their living from War profiteering will see that dry up, and defense industry employment go down. We'll probably be called upon to have higher CAFE standards for autos, and to avail ourselves of mass transit somewhat more. Those changes are inevitable, anyway. People receiving govt assistance may not get quite as much as they're accustomed to...

What? Did you think that the borrow and spend looting spree of the last 7 years would have no cost whatsoever? That allowing the top 1% of incomes to explode over the last 25 years wouldn't mean less for the rest of us?

Think again. Better yet, just start thinking instead of lapping up rightwing drivel the way a dog laps up antifreeze...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eskimospy
-snip-
Can you provide a reason as to why he should have to meet this higher standard that no one else seems to? He has outlined a general idea of what he wants to do, and he has repeatedly reminded people in his speeches that this is not free.

I've been acussed several times of ignoring the sacrifices that Obama has said we will be called upon to make.

I think it only reasonable then that people enumerate what they are. If no one can, then I contend I'm right.

Otherwise, I see value in people guessing what they are. I see nothing wrong or unfair about trying to get some thoughts together about what we may actually face under his administration. The upside/benefits have been enumerated to death, so let's look at the other side - the costs (sacrifices we will be called to make).

I believe calling for sacrifices in a vague way mostly just ensures no one will think much about it or object to them. IMO, most people just assume it's going to be a sacrifice from the other guy (much like raising taxes on the rich, as we've seen around no one believes themselves to be rich). As regards the Peace Corp thingy; neither you or I are goinna be in it, so it ain't a sacrifice to me unless my taxes are raised to fund it. And if that is the case, I wanna know how much and what I can get in return for it.

Fern

No, you've repeatedly claimed that Obama has not said anything about sacrifice and have been shown repeatedly that you are wrong. You are misrepresenting what others have said.

The best thing is that I'm sure we can dig up some specific things, at which point people will start complaining about the sacrifices he's asking for.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: quest55720
I expect a big sacrifice for my wallet as my taxes will most likely go up 30%-50%. The single middle class/working class will end up footing the bill for all of Obama's programs. Obama can claim all he wants about going after the rich. They have accountants, lawyers and off shore accounts they will avoid taxes. The poor don't pay taxes and people with kids don't pay taxes. The burden will squarely fall on my shoulders.

I expect to have to sacrifice my air conditioning in the summer because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to keep my house at 58f in the winter because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to sacrifice my incredible health care so Obama can give tens of millions of illegals free health care. I will in general have to sacrifice my standard of living for 4 years. It will be a very hard 4 years if Obama is elected but it will be only 4 years since he will be a 1 term president.

So pretty much what you're saying is that you're absolutely bonkers and that your opinions have no connection to reality.

Check.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: quest55720
I expect a big sacrifice for my wallet as my taxes will most likely go up 30%-50%. The single middle class/working class will end up footing the bill for all of Obama's programs. Obama can claim all he wants about going after the rich. They have accountants, lawyers and off shore accounts they will avoid taxes. The poor don't pay taxes and people with kids don't pay taxes. The burden will squarely fall on my shoulders.

I expect to have to sacrifice my air conditioning in the summer because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to keep my house at 58f in the winter because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to sacrifice my incredible health care so Obama can give tens of millions of illegals free health care. I will in general have to sacrifice my standard of living for 4 years. It will be a very hard 4 years if Obama is elected but it will be only 4 years since he will be a 1 term president.

You make some good points. Thankfully my taxes won't go up but my kids and their kids will suffer.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: quest55720
I expect a big sacrifice for my wallet as my taxes will most likely go up 30%-50%. The single middle class/working class will end up footing the bill for all of Obama's programs. Obama can claim all he wants about going after the rich. They have accountants, lawyers and off shore accounts they will avoid taxes. The poor don't pay taxes and people with kids don't pay taxes. The burden will squarely fall on my shoulders.

I expect to have to sacrifice my air conditioning in the summer because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to keep my house at 58f in the winter because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to sacrifice my incredible health care so Obama can give tens of millions of illegals free health care. I will in general have to sacrifice my standard of living for 4 years. It will be a very hard 4 years if Obama is elected but it will be only 4 years since he will be a 1 term president.

So pretty much what you're saying is that you're absolutely bonkers and that your opinions have no connection to reality.

Check.

If Bonkers means disagreeing with almost all of Obama's positions guilty as charged. I also disagree with most of McCains positions but his stance on energy and taxes I like. I would rather vote for the runner ups in Romney or Hillary.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: quest55720
I expect a big sacrifice for my wallet as my taxes will most likely go up 30%-50%. The single middle class/working class will end up footing the bill for all of Obama's programs. Obama can claim all he wants about going after the rich. They have accountants, lawyers and off shore accounts they will avoid taxes. The poor don't pay taxes and people with kids don't pay taxes. The burden will squarely fall on my shoulders.

I expect to have to sacrifice my air conditioning in the summer because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to keep my house at 58f in the winter because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to sacrifice my incredible health care so Obama can give tens of millions of illegals free health care. I will in general have to sacrifice my standard of living for 4 years. It will be a very hard 4 years if Obama is elected but it will be only 4 years since he will be a 1 term president.

You make some good points. Thankfully my taxes won't go up but my kids and their kids will suffer.

I think Bushie has made sure of that already.

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

I think our polititians are making sure of that already.

fixed, lets not let anyone off the hook. As much as we dislike Bush he won't be a factor for much longer

 

[DonaldC]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: quest55720
I expect a big sacrifice for my wallet as my taxes will most likely go up 30%-50%. The single middle class/working class will end up footing the bill for all of Obama's programs. Obama can claim all he wants about going after the rich. They have accountants, lawyers and off shore accounts they will avoid taxes. The poor don't pay taxes and people with kids don't pay taxes. The burden will squarely fall on my shoulders.

I expect to have to sacrifice my air conditioning in the summer because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to keep my house at 58f in the winter because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to sacrifice my incredible health care so Obama can give tens of millions of illegals free health care. I will in general have to sacrifice my standard of living for 4 years. It will be a very hard 4 years if Obama is elected but it will be only 4 years since he will be a 1 term president.

You make some good points. Thankfully my taxes won't go up but my kids and their kids will suffer.

I think Bushie has made sure of that already.

And BHO will add to the pain.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: quest55720
I expect a big sacrifice for my wallet as my taxes will most likely go up 30%-50%.

Good that means you weren't paying your fair share.

I expect to have to sacrifice my air conditioning in the summer because of increased energy prices.

That's the fault of your GOP heroes.

I expect to have to keep my house at 58f in the winter because of increased energy prices.

again the fault of your GOP heroes.

I expect to have to sacrifice my incredible health care so Obama can give tens of millions of illegals free health care.

again the fault of your GOP heroes.

I will in general have to sacrifice my standard of living for 4 years.

again the fault of your GOP heroes.


It will be a very hard 4 years if Obama is elected but it will be only 4 years since he will be a 1 term president.

It would be equally or even harder if your GOP heroes keep the whitehouse.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: quest55720
I expect a big sacrifice for my wallet as my taxes will most likely go up 30%-50%.

Good that means you weren't paying your fair share.

I expect to have to sacrifice my air conditioning in the summer because of increased energy prices.

That's the fault of your GOP heroes.

I expect to have to keep my house at 58f in the winter because of increased energy prices.

again the fault of your GOP heroes.

I expect to have to sacrifice my incredible health care so Obama can give tens of millions of illegals free health care.

again the fault of your GOP heroes.

I will in general have to sacrifice my standard of living for 4 years.

again the fault of your GOP heroes.


It will be a very hard 4 years if Obama is elected but it will be only 4 years since he will be a 1 term president.

It would be equally or even harder if your GOP heroes keep the whitehouse.

Nope because a republican president and democratic congress equals grid lock. I like grid lock nothing passes unless they make reasonable compromises. When 1 party has control is when shit gets out of control like the first 6 years of bush and a rubber stamp congress.

I can only imagine the damage Pelosi/Obama/Reid would do to this country. If a recession was the worst that happened it would be a miracle. Pelosi/Obama and their dreams of 10 dollar a gallon gas will likely send this country into a depression.

I think with a moderate president in McCain and democratic congress this country could have some great years like in the 90s. When this country had a moderate president and a republican congress.

 

[Vic]

I expect that, because of the fiscal irresponsibility of GW Bush, my taxes are going up regardless, I just don't intend to pay them to the people who fscking lied to me. Is this confusing? Or should I draw a diagram?

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: Vic
I expect that, because of the fiscal irresponsibility of GW Bush, my taxes are going up regardless, I just don't intend to pay them to the people who fscking lied to me. Is this confusing? Or should I draw a diagram?

They all lie so get over it. Were is my cheap gas Pelosi and the democrats promised in 2006? Where is the withdrawl of Iraq the democrats ran on in 2006?

Instead of raising taxes it is time for good old fasion spending cuts. Start with the war in Iraq and work your way down. The government has plenty of revinue they just need to spend it better.

Want my diagram 10 dollar a gallon fuel bankrupts 75% of the working class. Plain and simple for me energy is by far my biggest issue this election. McCain has a real complete energy policy Obama got his from the Sierra. That is what the democrats really want anyways the country in such a shit hole they can start hundreds of new programs and take control of peoples lives.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: quest55720
I expect a big sacrifice for my wallet as my taxes will most likely go up 30%-50%. The single middle class/working class will end up footing the bill for all of Obama's programs. Obama can claim all he wants about going after the rich. They have accountants, lawyers and off shore accounts they will avoid taxes. The poor don't pay taxes and people with kids don't pay taxes. The burden will squarely fall on my shoulders.

I expect to have to sacrifice my air conditioning in the summer because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to keep my house at 58f in the winter because of increased energy prices. I expect to have to sacrifice my incredible health care so Obama can give tens of millions of illegals free health care. I will in general have to sacrifice my standard of living for 4 years. It will be a very hard 4 years if Obama is elected but it will be only 4 years since he will be a 1 term president.

So pretty much what you're saying is that you're absolutely bonkers and that your opinions have no connection to reality.

Check.

If Bonkers means disagreeing with almost all of Obama's positions guilty as charged. I also disagree with most of McCains positions but his stance on energy and taxes I like. I would rather vote for the runner ups in Romney or Hillary.

No.

Disagreeing with Obama's positions is one thing, and is totally legitimate. What you did was make up magical positions that Obama has never held, create insane consequences from these nonsensical positions, and then declare Obama a poor president because of it. This is exceptionally stupid. Why don't you try disagreeing with things he actually said as opposed to magical crap that you just made up?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Vic
I expect that, because of the fiscal irresponsibility of GW Bush, my taxes are going up regardless, I just don't intend to pay them to the people who fscking lied to me. Is this confusing? Or should I draw a diagram?

They all lie so get over it. Were is my cheap gas Pelosi and the democrats promised in 2006? Where is the withdrawl of Iraq the democrats ran on in 2006?

Instead of raising taxes it is time for good old fasion spending cuts. Start with the war in Iraq and work your way down. The government has plenty of revinue they just need to spend it better.

Want my diagram 10 dollar a gallon fuel bankrupts 75% of the working class. Plain and simple for me energy is by far my biggest issue this election. McCain has a real complete energy policy Obama got his from the Sierra. That is what the democrats really want anyways the country in such a shit hole they can start hundreds of new programs and take control of peoples lives.

That's a nice conspiracy theory... except that the party in control of this country during these dramatic fuel price increases has been McCain's.
Just like the party in control of this country during the largest spending increases in its history has also been McCain's.

So you can continue to be an idiot and believe the lies, or you can start doing something about punishing the politicians who lie to you.