Obama admits he's been slow to act on Gitmo but that's not his fault.

[Hayabusa Rider]

BS

[URL="http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/guantanamo-bay-closure-deadline-missed-due-to-politics-barack-obama-says/sts-barack-obama-says/story-e6frf7jx-1225917941297[/URL]

A President who devoted more time to addressing a tiff in Boston, worries more about things which are not his business, now starts to bring up the fact nine months later that he hasn't acted on his executive order to close Gitmo because it isn't easy. Well he shoved Obamacare through, he had no problems spending money on whatever he thought was worth it, but kept silent on this.


"But the Republicans!"- That never was a good enough excuse as he'd run off at the mouth over daily news items as if his entire leadership strategy was to pick an article from the paper and have an angst fest.

I had hoped that when he came to power this sort of thing would be a priority but instead we have come to learn it's not a concern at all.

We heard from his supporters how evil Bush was for this, but hardly a word from them now. If they were a tenth as critical he might have had to at least make more noises.

GW Obama

 

[Hacp]

What do you expect when you send an academic to do the job of a President? He was a rookie coming in and he's still a rookie now.

 

[Moonbeam]

Your link was difficult for me to open:

----------------------------------

US President Barack Obama said today the deadline to close the prison facility at Guantanamo Bay was missed because of politics.
Mr Obama acknowledged in his White House press conference that he had "fallen short" on his campaign promise to close the prison, but said, "It's not for lack of trying".

"This is an issue that has generated a lot of political rhetoric," Mr Obama said. "People are understandably fearful."

Mr Obama signed an executive order during his first week in office in 2009 that set a January 2010 deadline to close Guantanamo Bay. In August, Admiral Jeffrey Harbeson, the commander of the prison, said had yet to receive direct orders to begin the transfer of prisoners from the US naval base in Cuba. He told Britain's The Independent newspaper that it would take approximately six months from the day Mr Obama implemented the transfer order to close the prison.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
Related Coverage9/11 trial may move from New York
Adelaide Now, 30 Jan 2010
Yemeni attack link a threat to Gitmo plans
The Australian, 30 Dec 2009
US to transfer half Guantanamo inmates
Adelaide Now, 3 Dec 2009
Terrorist trials 'courting trouble'
The Australian, 15 Nov 2009
Guantanamo closure 'uncertain'
Adelaide Now, 15 Nov 2009.End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
Mr Obama was also asked to address the fact that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, has not been brought to trial.

Attorney General Eric Holder said in November 2009 that he intended to have Mohammed and several of his co-conspirators stand trial in civilian court in New York City. His announcement was met with intense criticism from some who believe the conspirators should be tried in a military tribunal.

A final decision on the trials has yet to be made.

Mr Obama said today that the trial of Mohammed "needs to happen", adding, "we're going to have to work with members of Congress".

"The American justice system is strong enough that we should be able to convict people who murdered innocent Americans," Mr Obama said. "We should be able to lock them up and make sure they don't see the light of day."

-------------------

I'm sure McCain would have solved this by now, no?

Only a progressive majority can save America. That majority will probably only ever arise, if it ever does, out of the ashes of America burned to the ground by the self hating authoritarian right, democratic and Republican. Even you seem to think progressive means giving money to the poor, hehe. It doesn't mean that to me. People don't value what they get for free.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Your link was difficult for me to open:

Thanks for posting it. Sometimes using a phone doesn't work out very well.

One of the several reasons I didn't support McCain is that I believed he'd follow the same policies. Obama made a good bit of noise about being different, and I hoped he was, but he's turned out to be McCain after all, at least in this regard.

As far as my irritation with some progressives (and knowing you better than most here) I'd put you in a qualitatively different category than another who shall remain nameless. Why is that? Because I believe you look at a situation with sympathy and the best part of progressive philosophy appeals to you. Your wordviews find something which fits them. I'm fine with that, and I'm sure it's an oversimplification, but that's how I see things. Others pick a POV and will defend whatever "their side" says, demonizing others. They have a hammer and every problem is a nail. That's a general statement applying not just to progressives.

The problem is when some presume that their way is better because it's their way. That sort of thinking requires no introspection, no consideration of consequences. If they acknowledge failings rather than taking action to correct themselves they point to others and say "If you don't like our solution, what do you think things would be like under X".

There's more to my point, but I have to go earn a living.

I'm going somewhere with this, but I'll need a bit of time to get there.

Later!

 

[Jaskalas]

Individually I'm not too concerned about foreigners in Gitmo. However, I appreciate the danger Gitmo poses on Americans when combined with the Patriot Act.

So anyone who does not forcibly close it will disappoint me.

Would I vote depending on this matter? Well... it sort of ties into the Patriot Act, which I would absolutely vote against. This isn't just about Gitmo. It's about a deeper philosophical difference. It's about a set of values.

We need a President who supports the people before the Government and that'll never happen with a Dem or Rep. These two incumbent parties ARE the Government, they'll never side with the people.

If Gitmo closes, it'll be because it's convenient for them to do so. Not because they believe it's wrong. Ex: President Obama.

 

[waggy]

meh i don't care that Gitmo is not closed. to be honest i laughed at those that believed his promises. they were getting a little strange.

 

[Carmen813]

BS

[URL="http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/guantanamo-bay-closure-deadline-missed-due-to-politics-barack-obama-says/sts-barack-obama-says/story-e6frf7jx-1225917941297[/URL]

A President who devoted more time to addressing a tiff in Boston, worries more about things which are not his business, now starts to bring up the fact nine months later that he hasn't acted on his executive order to close Gitmo because it isn't easy. Well he shoved Obamacare through, he had no problems spending money on whatever he thought was worth it, but kept silent on this.


"But the Republicans!"- That never was a good enough excuse as he'd run off at the mouth over daily news items as if his entire leadership strategy was to pick an article from the paper and have an angst fest.

I had hoped that when he came to power this sort of thing would be a priority but instead we have come to learn it's not a concern at all.

We heard from his supporters how evil Bush was for this, but hardly a word from them now. If they were a tenth as critical he might have had to at least make more noises.

GW Obama

Congress denied funding to transfer prisoners by a vote of 90-6 in the Senate. At no point in that article did Obama blame Republicans. He doesn't have the power to direct funding, so unless he circumvents the Constitution to close something that circumvented the Constitution, I'm not really sure what he could actually do.

Am I happy that this is still open? No, but it's hardly Obama's fault.

 

[Moonbeam]

Gitmo, in my opinion is just more of the ass that was George Bush. That piece of shit had no faith in the American way. He militarized the illegality that was 9/11 and invaded Iraq, like a titanic stupid asshole. Instead of applying American civil law to folk guilty of offense against America, he locked up and tortured people, many of whom were doubtless guilty of grave crime, but because they were tortured are now beyond the reach of law.

He then handed this total fucked up situation to Obama saying, OK, donkey, now release them into the wild like the law requires and watch them go someplace and kill more Americans, and when you do, don't forget, the American people will know who let them go. George Bush fucked America in the ass and those who voted for him and would again helped and are still helping him do it. The Republican party seeks America's death by stupidity. It is the party of anti-American human scum. They are the party of keep America sick and down by voting no to any form of progress.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Gitmo, in my opinion is just more of the ass that was George Bush. That piece of shit had no faith in the American way. He militarized the illegality that was 9/11 and invaded Iraq, like a titanic stupid asshole. Instead of applying American civil law to folk guilty of offense against America, he locked up and tortured people, many of whom were doubtless guilty of grave crime, but because they were tortured are now beyond the reach of law.

He then handed this total fucked up situation to Obama saying, OK, donkey, now release them into the wild like the law requires and watch them go someplace and kill more Americans, and when you do, don't forget, the American people will know who let them go. George Bush fucked America in the ass and those who voted for him and would again helped and are still helping him do it. The Republican party seeks America's death by stupidity. It is the party of anti-American human scum. They are the party of keep America sick and down by voting no to any form of progress.

Lunch break!

M, you and Carmine may have missed what I was saying. Of course there would be opposition. Did that stop him from promoting health care? Did it stop him from using the bully pulpit for bailouts? Just how many of Obama's causes sailed through Congress without opposition?

My point is that Obama has been loud on some issues, but on this he really hasn't. Remember Iraq, and how we were told things that weren't? Where is the loyal opposition now?

Obama can't fund any initiatives, however that doesn't stop him from loudly backing ones he supports.

When one is handed a bunch of crap that one supposedly doesn't like the usual reaction is to attempt to change the situation. Instead we hear it's "not my fault" while much of what Gitmo is gets moved to Afghanistan completely under his watch.

Gitmo is a political concern to him, not a moral one and it shows.

 

[Moonbeam]

Politics is the art of the possible no? Healthcare is fubared because what we got was all that was possible. The bailouts were anemic for the same reason. Everything that is done is done as a matter of political balance, which means caving to the sickness of the right. Who is running to the left of Obama that we can support. What President would live five minutes without being assassinated by the government if he pushed for total morality? This country reflects where we are as a people and we aren't anywhere at all. Self hate has made us very very sick.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Politics is the art of the possible no? Healthcare is fubared because what we got was all that was possible. The bailouts were anemic for the same reason. Everything that is done is done as a matter of political balance, which means caving to the sickness of the right. Who is running to the left of Obama that we can support. What President would live five minutes without being assassinated by the government if he pushed for total morality? This country reflects where we are as a people and we aren't anywhere at all. Self hate has made us very very sick.

I don't consider myself left of Obama, but if I found this offensive I would try my hardest to fix it, and in a public way, consequences be damned. If someone took me out as a result so be it. I think you know me well enough to know that I'm not being hyperbolic. When our founders broke from England they literally came under a death sentence. When Lincoln acted as he did he died as a result. MLK and others as well.

They didn't talk about injustice, the art of the possible, but worked for the impossible. Perhaps I've outlived my time, but I believe that some things are worth risking censure or worse.

One should not talk the talk, but find excuses after. It betrays great men. The mean spirited ones we can see, they make themselves plain. I can disregard them, but when one pretends to be something he is not, whether a patriot or a leader with an agenda of justice they ought to be called on it. I did it with Bush, and now with Obama.

We're far too tolerant of "our" sides behavior.

 

[Narmer]

Nothing is ever Obama's fault.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't consider myself left of Obama, but if I found this offensive I would try my hardest to fix it, and in a public way, consequences be damned. If someone took me out as a result so be it. I think you know me well enough to know that I'm not being hyperbolic. When our founders broke from England they literally came under a death sentence. When Lincoln acted as he did he died as a result. MLK and others as well.

They didn't talk about injustice, the art of the possible, but worked for the impossible. Perhaps I've outlived my time, but I believe that some things are worth risking censure or worse.

One should not talk the talk, but find excuses after. It betrays great men. The mean spirited ones we can see, they make themselves plain. I can disregard them, but when one pretends to be something he is not, whether a patriot or a leader with an agenda of justice they ought to be called on it. I did it with Bush, and now with Obama.

We're far too tolerant of "our" sides behavior.

I don't think you've outlived your time. I don't think your time has come. I don't disagree with what you have said, but I see almost no hope at all in politics. It is the art of the possible and nothing at our level of consciousness on average is possible. For this nobody can really be blamed. We are asleep. What we do is dream.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I don't think you've outlived your time. I don't think your time has come. I don't disagree with what you have said, but I see almost no hope at all in politics. It is the art of the possible and nothing at our level of consciousness on average is possible. For this nobody can really be blamed. We are asleep. What we do is dream.

I've been trying to learn about Islam in the time I have, and there is much to recommend it. I like the idea of mastering the ego, to realize that to serve is not servitude, that to lead is to serve.

Too often we see people who pretend to be leaders and turn out to be politicians. I long to see the reverse.

There is a biblical quote-

For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted

One who seeks to put those he is over above himself would find himself elevated above others. That is most often a trait of greatness. I am Diogenes, in search of the little person who would rise to the task at need, not for glory. Where is such a one?

 

[OFFascist]

I have no problems with foreign terrorists being locked up in gitmo.

 

[feralkid]

What do you expect when you send an academic to do the job of a President? He was a rookie coming in and he's still a rookie now.

Are you sure this isn't the fault of unions?

But seriously, shouldn't you be cleaning out the gerbil cage?

 

[EagleKeeper]

It does not take $$ to close the facility. It takes $$ to transfer the inmates to other locations. It was the NIMBY syndrom.

He also could have sent the inmates back to their own countries, but political and human rights people felt that is would cruel and unusal punishment for people to stand trial intheir hoime countries for crimes. So he bent over for thier concerns

 

[Hacp]

It does not take $$ to close the facility. It takes $$ to transfer the inmates to other locations. It was the NIMBY syndrom.

He also could have sent the inmates back to their own countries, but political and human rights people felt that is would cruel and unusal punishment for people to stand trial intheir hoime countries for crimes. So he bent over for thier concerns

We could just send them to Cuba. Its only a few meters away.

 

[Jaskalas]

We could just send them to Cuba. Its only a few meters away.

Might as well release them in Miami and save them the 90 mile raft ride.

 

[EXman]

The Republican party seeks America's death by stupidity. It is the party of anti-American human scum. They are the party of keep America sick and down by voting no to any form of progress.

lol moonie you sound pretty down man. That was my same arguement 4 years ago by dems.

Both parties want to keep us down but the Dems want to keep us stupid by providing for their masses of voters that are taken care of cradle to grave.

Change for the sake of change isn't always good. Progress to you means giving more power to a myopic centeralized gov't that continues to overspend and over tax.

 

[Moonbeam]

lol moonie you sound pretty down man. That was my same arguement 4 years ago by dems.

Both parties want to keep us down but the Dems want to keep us stupid by providing for their masses of voters that are taken care of cradle to grave.

Change for the sake of change isn't always good. Progress to you means giving more power to a myopic centeralized gov't that continues to overspend and over tax.

You are talking to phantoms in your head.

 

[CycloWizard]

This is simply another promise he never intended to keep. First, he wanted to close Gitmo outright. This promise seems to imply that he would address the legal issues surrounding the prisoners of that facility (he was a big shot lawyer, right?). At some point, he decided not to deal with the underlying issue and changed his tune to simply transferring them from Gitmo to an Illinois prison. This promise seemed to imply that he would follow through on his nominal promise and actually close Gitmo, though the prisoners would still be in some sort of limbo. However, the fact that they would be on US soil this time also seemed to indicate that he would do something about it eventually, so still a possible baby step in the right direction. Then, reality set in: he has done absolutely nothing to make anything happen on this issue. He has had no problem allowing these shenanigans to persist indefinitely. He only brings it up now to preempt the inevitable campaign ads showing the laundry list of campaign promises he's made and failed to keep. He is worse than Bush because at least Bush didn't claim he would do the right thing, so we could assume that Bush simply didn't know what the right thing was. Obama clearly knows what the right thing is but lacks the balls to do it.

 

[Carmen813]

Lunch break!

M, you and Carmine may have missed what I was saying. Of course there would be opposition. Did that stop him from promoting health care? Did it stop him from using the bully pulpit for bailouts? Just how many of Obama's causes sailed through Congress without opposition?

My point is that Obama has been loud on some issues, but on this he really hasn't. Remember Iraq, and how we were told things that weren't? Where is the loyal opposition now?

Obama can't fund any initiatives, however that doesn't stop him from loudly backing ones he supports.

When one is handed a bunch of crap that one supposedly doesn't like the usual reaction is to attempt to change the situation. Instead we hear it's "not my fault" while much of what Gitmo is gets moved to Afghanistan completely under his watch.

Gitmo is a political concern to him, not a moral one and it shows.

Ah in that case, yes, I agree. He should have made more of an effort to advocate on this particular issue. Wouldn't doubt it was a case of political triage where he ultimately decided other domestic criteria were more important. I for one do not doubt for a minute that part of the problem is tactics used by the previous administration for obtaining information would make prosecuting some of these people impossible. Unless he created some new type of law around terrorist suspects, I think we would end up in a situation where a lot of guilty people were let go. I'm not sure that is in the best interest for our national security...though certainly going forward I hope we change our practices.

Then again, a lot of liberals are unhappy with his position on civil rights in general.

 

[WelshBloke]

I've got some sympathy with Obama on this one, as they say 'its easy to shit on the floor but difficult to clean the carpet'

 

[CycloWizard]

I've got some sympathy with Obama on this one, as they say 'its easy to shit on the floor but difficult to clean the carpet'

Yes, but if I hire a carpet cleaner and he says he can get the stain out, I don't expect it to take over two years for him to get around to it.