Obama administration seeking tighter gun control in four border states.

[Jhhnn]

By strict interpretation the 2nd amendment is already infringed upon in many other places.

And no the multiple long gun sales reporting does not directly impact a person's ability to keep or bear arms, but it's one more tool that could be corrupted towards that use down the line. And, as has been repeatably pointed out, is next to worthless. It's not like there's one gun store in the entire south west. You want 12 guns without getting flagged by the ATF? Go to 12 different gun stores and charge your cartel clients that much more for your services.

Note the third example where the man plead guilty to someone he "should have known" was a felon. How "should he have known" this without a background check? He plead guilty to separate charges of knowingly selling to felons, yet this final one was singled out as a case of "should have known". It fits.

Have you slipped a cog? The guy in the third example was a de facto gun dealer who continued to sell guns even after losing his FFL. The whole "knew or should have known" bit is legalese for him having sold a gun to an undercover operative who claimed to be an ineligible person. He took a plea, rather than eat the whole giant enchilada. He probably faced a list of charges as long as my leg.

Pardon me, but I think YOU are not thinking this through.

I've identified how the BATF already has this data, and pointed out how they can go get it. It is available to them.

Whether or not the law passes, it has absolutely nothing to do with the "option of buying from any dealer".

I don't see how you any point in relation to mine.

Fern

The BATF only has the data well after the fact, and only when they request it wrt any particular firearm recovered in a crime or from a list sent by Mexican authorities. It's not the same as what they want, and they don't "already have the data" at all. It's spread out across thousands of gunshops. Are you suggesting that the BATF budget should be radically increased so that they can send out agents to retrieve the data they want on an ongoing basis? How much would you suppose that would cost the taxpayers vs what the BATF requests?

No, hand gun purchases are treated differently.

In order for a FFL/dealer to sell a handgun they must clear it through the feds. That info IS in a federal database (unlike long gun info).

Fern

Totally incorrect. All OTC firearms purchases must be cleared through the NICS system. Read the 4473 form. Handguns and long guns are treated the same, except wrt multiple handgun purchases in a 5 day period. You'd be correct wrt class III firearms, usually full auto weapons. What I offered is entirely accurate. There is no big bad central database- only the small databases held by each FFL.

2 forms of ID are required when purchasing a firearm.

Incorrect in the context of federal law. Such may be the case in different locales. Read the 4473 form.

INSTRUCTIONS TO TRANSFEROR
1. KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER: Before a licensee may sell or deliver a firearm to a nonlicensee, the licensee must establish the identity, place of residence, and age of the buyer. The buyer must provide a valid government-issued photo identification to the seller that contains the buyer’s name, residence address, and date of birth. The licensee must record the type, identification number, and expiration date (if any) of the identification in question 18a. A driver’s license or an identification card issued by a State in place of a license is acceptable. Social security cards are not acceptable because no address, date of birth, or photograph is shown on the cards. If the buyer is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty acquiring a firearm in the State where his or her permanent duty station is located, but he or she has a driver’s license from another State, you should list the buyer’s military identification card and official orders showing where his or her permanent duty station is located in response to question 18a.

None of that applies to truly private sales.

The number of times that I've needed to correct misunderstandings and misrepresentations on the part of gun advocates in this thread is amazing, and not in a good way. It's not like I'm expert, either, nor do I claim to be. I can and do actually read pertinent information when it's provided, however. Too bad that's not more prevalent among participants in the discussion.

 

[Zebo]

Fuck Obama and fuck anyone who wants to curtail our liberty for other people actions. That includes that androgynous Lindsy Graham talking of curtailing free speech. What we need is more liberty as in legalizing drugs so profit motive is no longer there to kill people over now expired trillion dollar enterprise.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
The BATF only has the data well after the fact, and only when they request it wrt any particular firearm recovered in a crime or from a list sent by Mexican authorities. It's not the same as what they want, and they don't "already have the data" at all. It's spread out across thousands of gunshops. Are you suggesting that the BATF budget should be radically increased so that they can send out agents to retrieve the data they want on an ongoing basis? How much would you suppose that would cost the taxpayers vs what the BATF requests?

No. I'm saying we already have info on the guns found in Mexico. If not, where do the cited figures come from?

We know that 12 FFL/gun dealers account for many of the guns found/used in Mexico. Hence my suggestion that when these FFL/gun dealers pop up on the radar for guns found in Mexico send over a BATF person to check the forms on file and find who is making multiple purchases etc.

-
Totally incorrect. All OTC firearms purchases must be cleared through the NICS system. Read the 4473 form. Handguns and long guns are treated the same, except wrt multiple handgun purchases in a 5 day period. You'd be correct wrt class III firearms, usually full auto weapons. What I offered is entirely accurate. There is no big bad central database- only the small databases held by each FFL.

Nope. I've bought many of both.

For handguns the FFL/gun dealer has to call in and give your name, the gun's serial # etc and get permission before they can give you the handgun. The info is then in a database.

For long gun purchase you just fill out a form, no need to call the feds.

Edit: I see where you're getting your info. But it doesn't match other sites I've seen on the paperwork requirments (I'll look for them later) nor my personal experience. I had a client who was a FFL and sat with him many times when he got approval to sell me a handgun. I've also purchased rifles from Walmart and only filled out the form, no call to my recollection, nor was there a 3 day wait period. I walked in purchased the rifle and left. It was that simple. It wasn't a shotgun either.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

Jesus H. Christ, Fern- read the 4473-

3. The Brady law, 18 U.S.C. § 922(t), requires that prior to transferring any firearm to an unlicensed person, a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer must first contact the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). NICS will advise the licensee whether the system finds any information that the prospective purchaser is prohibited by law from possessing or receiving a firearm. For purposes of this form, contacts to NICS include contacts to State agencies that have been designated to conduct NICS checks for the Federal Government.

*Any Firearm* is the operative term. If you'd actually read the 4473 form, as I've suggested more than once, you'd also realize that the federal NICS system does *not* require any information as to the type of non-NFA firearm desired, only information about the person seeking to purchase a firearm. See sections A,B&C of form 4473. Section D, identification of a particular firearm, isn't even filled out until after the NICS approves purchase. Sections A,B&C don't necessarily indicate that the potential buyer will actually purchase a firearm, either.

It may be different in your state.

Merely reasserting erroneous information doesn't make it true.

How many times do I have to say the same thing? Read the form 4473. It's all there in black&white.