Obama administration considering killing another US citizen without due process

[Texashiker]

Just can't answer the question can ya?

Dont we have the cia, special forces and seal teams that are trained in this kind of stuff?

We spend more money on our military than the rest of the world combined. But we can not ensure our citizens receive a fair trial?

 

[Genx87]

I know right? I mean they do it every day. And it's not like when they have the person (it's only happened once where an American was targeted, contrary to what the OP implies) was openly engaged in terrorist activities against the U.S.

Once? Try twice. Dont forget his 16 year old son we killed several week later engaged in the terrorist activity of sitting at a cafe.

Openly engaged in what activities? Badmouthing the United States of America? Good to see we are also walking down the path of squashing the 1st amendment while we are at it.

The idea anybody would support killing an American citizen without trial in a drone strike is disgusting. Your bloodlust for killing terrorists will send this country down a path that will be paved in abuse.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Dont we have the cia, special forces and seal teams that are trained in this kind of stuff?

We spend more money on our military than the rest of the world combined. But we can not ensure our citizens receive a fair trial?

You should read the article you linked to see why that's an issue.

 

[rudeguy]

Bombs away, I say.

That's what we should do. But we can't always do what we should do.


But hey....who am I to tell the Nobel Peace Prize winner who he can and can't execute.

 

[Texashiker]

You should read the article you linked to see why that's an issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

The Constitution is not a piece of paper you regard or disregard at will.

 

[Orignal Earl]

How does obama get to keep his noble peace prize when he kills his own citizens without due process?

I just learned the other day that the FBI responded to MLK's "I have a dream" speech, by listing him as a major enemy of the US. The Noble guys gave him the 1964 prize
Just a little TIL

 

[Pray To Jesus]

There are processes in place, again due to congressional action just after 9/11.

Let me guess. Because it's not for the public click to decide if there's guilt it's bad right?

The CIA drones watching him cannot strike because he's a U.S. citizen and the Justice Department must build a case against him, a task it hasn't completed.

how long?

 

[kage69]

Nice to see that conservatives now support Al-Qaida over their own president. That takes a lot of class.

I can't believe the usual shills are still trying to ring this bell, again. I guess they're not done proving themselves to be partisan hypocrites of the highest order. If an (R) was doing this it would be "He's dealing with the real world and keeping us safe! Murica! Leadership! Fuck yeah!' Didn't take long for them to forget their outrage when terrorists who were able to be caught were sent to a civilian court, or were *gasp* being read their rights! For a good laugh, go look up what the popular sentiment among these boobs was when our guys got John Walker Lindh in Kunduz. Yeah, they were really concerned about due process back then. I'm sure it had nothing to do with Cheney being office instead of that time-traveling muslim Kenyan socialist we call President Obama.

Where is their outrage for the dozens of citizens killed every year by authorities in this country without due process?

Earth to parrots: repudiating America, it's protections, and actively seeking to kill other Americans effectively classifies you as an enemy. Capture and trial would be preferable for those types, but short of having that ability something needs to be done to stop more deaths. The exact same rational behind SWAT taking out a hostage-taking gunman or psycho bent on shooting as many people as he can.
Until these idiots start getting uppity about all the other 'without due process' killings, I will continue to view them as low information idiots just adding to their own echo chamber of fail, and laugh accordingly.

OP, you make threads like you use a chainsaw. Just stop.

 

[Capt Caveman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution



The Constitution is not a piece of paper you regard or disregard at will.

So, if this person has killed and/or is plotting to kill Americans, what do you propose?

Send the military in and risk the lives of American soldiers to capture him?

 

[Genx87]

I can't believe the usual shills are still trying to ring this bell, again. I guess they're not done proving themselves to be partisan hypocrites of the highest order. If an (R) was doing this it would be "He's dealing with the real world and keeping us safe! Murica! Leadership! Fuck yeah!' Didn't take long for them to forget their outrage when terrorists who were able to be caught were sent to a civilian court, or were *gasp* being read their rights! For a good laugh, go look up what the popular sentiment among these boobs was when our guys got John Walker Lindh in Kunduz. Yeah, they were really concerned about due process back then. I'm sure it had nothing to do with Cheney being office instead of that time-traveling muslim Kenyan socialist we call President Obama.

Where is their outrage for the dozens of citizens killed every year by authorities in this country without due process?

Earth to parrots: repudiating America, it's protections, and actively seeking to kill other Americans effectively classifies you as an enemy. Capture and trial would be preferable for those types, but short of having that ability something needs to be done to stop more deaths. The exact same rational behind SWAT taking out a hostage-taking gunman or psycho bent on shooting as many people as he can.
Until these idiots start getting uppity about all the other 'without due process' killings,
I will continue to view them as low information idiots just adding to their own echo chamber of fail.

OP, you make threads like you use a chainsaw. Just stop.

Why do people bring up hostage situations as analogy for these operations? They are not the same at all. The analogy for a SWAT hostage situation is an active fire fight with US forces. Not many people are going to defend these people being killed during a firefight. And afaik no court has deemed that a violation of ones due process. And rightfull so.

I ask you. Why are you ok with the govt writing laws that allow it to murder American citizens without a trial?

 

[rudeguy]

Can someone rationally explain to me why the libs wanted to close Gitmo because people were being held without due process but they are ok with killing American citizens without due process?

 

[Genx87]

So, if this person has killed and/or is plotting to kill Americans, what do you propose?

Send the military in and risk the lives of American soldiers to capture him?

I'd start with at least an indictment for a crime. Even Bin Laden got that and he isnt even a citizen.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I'd start with at least an indictment for a crime. Even Bin Laden got that and he isnt even a citizen.

And if he is, next?

 

[thraashman]

How did we get Saddam?

Saddam got a trial and he was not a US citizen.

Nazis from world war II received a trial.

Even Jeffrey Dahmer received a trial.

Saddam was captured in a country which we had an occupying force in. Dahmer was in the United States where we have a police force. Nazis were captured mostly in countries in which Allied forces were an occupying force. A perfect example of how relying on capturing and trying a war criminal doesn't always work is Josef Mengele. The American citizens who are terrorists that we've used or considered use of drones on are in countries we don't occupy, have police powers in, often won't extradite to the US, or don't have a competent enough police force of their own to capture the terrorist.

This leaves us with limited options. We can send in full military force. If the host country is not ok with this, which they often aren't, it would start an international incident and be an act of war. It could also likely cost the lives of American soldiers. We could send in a small extraction team, holds the same problem as before. Members of an extraction team are put in serious harms way, could lose their lives, and if captured would likely be tried and tortured in many of these countries. We could try partnering with the host country, but in many cases there are local sympathizers who would tip off the terrorist and we'd lose them. And it's also likely the host country would be unwilling to partner with us. And of course we have the drone strike option. This has it's own issues obviously. Questionable legality, still possible to piss off host country, kill with no option of capture.

The problem is that the drone strike option has the highest probability of success without tipping off the target as well as highest probability of not costing any American soldiers lives. It's a tough decision to make for any leader. But the President has to try to balance what he can do to protect American citizens while protecting civil liberties as well. Personally I'm torn on how I feel about the drone strike option.

 

[Genx87]

And if he is, next?

Lets get to step one with this govt. So far our evidence has been so weak they couldnt even convince a grand jury to indict.

 

[Texashiker]

Send the military in and risk the lives of American soldiers to capture him?

Did those soldiers volunteer?

 

[rudeguy]

So, if this person has killed and/or is plotting to kill Americans, what do you propose?

Send the military in and risk the lives of American soldiers to capture him?

So by your way of thinking, we should nuke North Korea right off the map. They have threatened to do the same to us, they have nuclear weapons, why should we risk American lives waiting for them to strike?

Of course Iran will have to be next.

Russia talked shit, gonna have to take care of them.

Well shit...now the rest of the world is threatening us. Time to launch some more missiles!

 

[Capt Caveman]

So by your way of thinking, we should nuke North Korea right off the map. They have threatened to do the same to us, they have nuclear weapons, why should we risk American lives waiting for them to strike?

Of course Iran will have to be next.

Russia talked shit, gonna have to take care of them.

Well shit...now the rest of the world is threatening us. Time to launch some more missiles!

North Korea is part of a terrorist organization that has killed Americans and is plotting to kill more?

You seriously don't know the difference? You think we can have China or another nation to talk to Al Qaeda to calm them down and they'll listen?

And you don't think we have plans in place if NK were to do something?

So, if an American has decided to betray his nation and hide outside of the US to kill and plot to kill other Americans, what is your solution?

 

[rudeguy]

North Korea is part of a terrorist organization that has killed Americans and is plotting to kill more?

You seriously don't know the difference? You think we can have China or another nation to talk to Al Qaeda to calm them down and they'll listen?

And you don't think we have plans in place if NK were to do something?

So, if an American has decided to betray his nation and hide outside of the US to kill and plot to kill other Americans, what is your solution?

ummm....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

 

[Brainonska511]

Did those soldiers volunteer?

So you're happy to put soldiers unnecessarily in harms way? Why do you hate Americans so much?

 

[Brainonska511]

ummm....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

umm....


Nation-state != terror cell

 

[Capt Caveman]

ummm....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

/facepalm

 

[Oldgamer]

Hey - if some of you can justify shooting a drunk woman in the face for knocking on a man's door at 2am, then this should be a non issue.

Bombs away, I say.

Hahah.. good points!


If this guy is over seas working with them and intel has it he is helping to plan hurting Americans then let then drones strike. It would be a lot harder for them to sneak a covert military team in just to get one guy and bring him back for a trial.

 

[JManInPhoenix]

Bombs away, I say.

:thumbsup:

 

[Brainonska511]

If this guy is over seas working with them and intel has it he is helping to plan hurting Americans then let then drones strike. It would be a lot harder for them to sneak a covert military team in just to get one guy and bring him back for a trial.

It would also be harder to go after the guy if it's blabbed all over the media that we're interested in an American where we don't have foreign presence.

As Robert Gates said about the people that keep leaking high-level national-security stuff, "Shut the fuck up".