Obama Administration: All the World's Servers are Belong to Us!

[glenn1]

Stop pretending to you hate it. Because the truth is you wish you were on that telescreen.

People like you do not really hate Big Brother; you just want to be Big Brother.

Is it really that hard for you to say "Obama is wrong"? I can say it - Bush was wrong then, Obama is wrong now, and the next guy might be wrong too.

 

[master_shake_]

while i agree it comes down to the "patriot act" you can't lay the blame on bush. it is a act of congress. they could have stopped it yet didn't.

Even if you want to ignore that and continue to "but booosh" shit you have to give just as much to Obama for not allowing it to expire. he signed a extension on it in 2011.

didnt bush sell everyone on the terrists are here and they want your freedom bs?

turns out the gumment wants yer freedom.... 'murica

not only your freedom the entire worlds data... voting in a new jackass doesn't fix that.

 

[Zaap]

Does this also work backwards? Can non-US citizens demand their right to get Obamacare?

As long as they sneak across a border- of course.

 

[Zorba]

while i agree it comes down to the "patriot act" you can't lay the blame on bush. it is a act of congress. they could have stopped it yet didn't.

Even if you want to ignore that and continue to "but booosh" shit you have to give just as much to Obama for not allowing it to expire. he signed a extension on it in 2011.

Bush signed it, so I agree it is everyone's fault that voted yes and Bush's fault for signing it.

Obama has been a huge disappoint in this regard, and it really upset me when he signed off on the Patriot act extension, which is completely his fault, not Bush's.

Bush was very wrong when all this spying crap got started, and Obama is just as wrong for keeping it going, especially after all the promises to end it or at least make it transparent. This is why we can't ever give the government the type of power the Patriot Act gives them, they will never give it up and only keep taking more.

It does really annoy how many of the vocal against Obama spying right now, were 100% lock step behind it when Bush was in office. If they and everyone like them were as against it then, as they are now, we may have been able to stop this at the beginning. Maybe people have grown and changed their opinions, but I think I a lot of it just has to do with the fact it is now a democratic doing it instead of a republican.

That being said, anyone who was against this when Bush was in office and is now okay with it is nothing but a blind partisan hack.

 

[glenn1]

Bush signed it, so I agree it is everyone's fault that voted yes and Bush's fault for signing it.

Obama has been a huge disappoint in this regard, and it really upset me when he signed off on the Patriot act extension, which is completely his fault, not Bush's.

Bush was very wrong when all this spying crap got started, and Obama is just as wrong for keeping it going, especially after all the promises to end it or at least make it transparent. This is why we can't ever give the government the type of power the Patriot Act gives them, they will never give it up and only keep taking more.

It does really annoy how many of the vocal against Obama spying right now, were 100% lock step behind it when Bush was in office. If they and everyone like them were as against it then, as they are now, we may have been able to stop this at the beginning. Maybe people have grown and changed their opinions, but I think I a lot of it just has to do with the fact it is now a democratic doing it instead of a republican.

That being said, anyone who was against this when Bush was in office and is now okay with it is nothing but a blind partisan hack.

Part of what has changed is the level of knowledge about it, thanks in large part to Snowden. We only saw the tip of the iceberg during the Bush years, although in retrospect it was willful blindness on all our parts to assume that's all that was involved. It's one thing to give the benefit of the doubt when you think the most questionable practice is listening to conversations of U.S. citizens talking to Al Qaeda operatives overseas. It's quite another when you realize the NSA is recording every phone call, piece of internet traffic, and seizing every piece of data that exists about every single person on planet Earth.

 

[Oldgamer]

As far as who's pushing it it's a combination of those listed. A given sitting president's level of complicity is at least partially due to the fact that the POTUS is the "public face" of the government; another part being due to the bullshit "the buck stop's here" attitude.

True, although I know we have a lot that want to blame POTUS for every damned thing though. I still can't help wonder though who is really behind this. Is the President really behind this or is it someone else, maybe someone who is advising him, and giving him bad advice? I mean this just seems very deep, and I suspect we may some time years down the road may find out and be very surprised who is really behind the curtain of all of this. Just let me add I am very disappointed that this sitting president has not done anything in the way of his promises to be more transparent.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Is it really that hard for you to say "Obama is wrong"? I can say it - Bush was wrong then, Obama is wrong now, and the next guy might be wrong too.

I've admitted plenty of times Obama has been wrong; I even stated I do not like ACA, because it does not benefit me. That does not mean I want to banish ACA and never allow it to come back.

Just because it does not benefit me, it does not mean I must destroy it; wanting to do so just proves I have a hard-on for no reason other to ensure people are suffering. That would make me a misanthropist - like you.

P.S. I also criticized his push to send the army into Syria, etc. It is wrong and he is wrong for wanting to get into another war in the Middle East.

 

[unokitty]

How is this any different from other extra-territorial "rights" that the US has asserted for decades other than it affects corporations?

In the past, US national security laws were used to justify covert spying. And a National Security Letter (NSL) was employed to keep service providers from informing their customers that their data had been given to the US government. For example, from ZDNet:

The U.S. government's law enforcement and intelligence agencies can access cloud stored files in Europe—such as medical and financial records, business secrets and dealings, and even government documents—in spite of seemingly strong EU data protection laws...

Former Microsoft privacy chief Caspar Bowden, speaking at a panel discussion in Brussels this week, warned that U.S. law allows the government to spy on non-U.S. citizens files and documents, and that new Europe-wide data protection law proposals specifically allow such surveillance...

anyone outside the U.S. who uses cloud products—such as Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Google products, including businesses that outsource their infrastructures to keep costs down—are at risk of being spied on by the U.S. government...

the new EU Data Protection Regulation, which will be voted on by members of the European Parliament later this year, introduces "loopholes" that permit foreign state spying. He warned that U.S.-based Internet giants—such as the aforementioned, are forced into handing over data on European citizens when required, or they could face sanctions or prosecution.

But, it's actually not that much of a secret anymore.

The Justice Department is evolving their legal position from the current covert taking of other people's data to the public taking other people's data in a manner that overtly ignores national boundaries.

You can think of the old way as we are going to take your data under the guise that it is important to our national security. And we are going to use a NSL, so you will never know.

You can think of the new way as we are going to send you a summons in public. We don't care about national boundaries and when we get your data it is going to become part of the court record that will be publicly available.

Old way, covertly take your data to help with the war on terror.

New way, overtly take your data to help with the war on drugs, fraud, whatever...


Now, ask yourself, if you lived in Asia, South America, Africa, or Europe, why would you give up your privacy by choosing a US cloud provider (Google, Apple, Microsoft, et al)?

Why wouldn't you retain your privacy and choose a non-US provider?

Uno

 

[Zorba]

Part of what has changed is the level of knowledge about it, thanks in large part to Snowden. We only saw the tip of the iceberg during the Bush years, although in retrospect it was willful blindness on all our parts to assume that's all that was involved. It's one thing to give the benefit of the doubt when you think the most questionable practice is listening to conversations of U.S. citizens talking to Al Qaeda operatives overseas. It's quite another when you realize the NSA is recording every phone call, piece of internet traffic, and seizing every piece of data that exists about every single person on planet Earth.

I agree, that is why I said I am fine with the people who have grown and changed their opinion based on new information and feel it is wrong now, but in retrospect will also admit it was wrong under Bush.

I was mostly ranting about the people that want to bash Obama for the NSA but still forgive Bush.

 

[werepossum]

Bush spies on everyone; what, are you a terrorist or something? What are you afraid of?!!?

Obama spies on everyone; ,.... BBLLLLLAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!
pukes, craps and pisses all over self

Having figured out to what "Steamer" references, I'm assuming that "Newell" is some reference to a horrendous smell, no?

No, this is wrong on many many levels. I think this all ties into the whole world wide spying crap honestly. I also think all of this is beginning to really affect the tech companies and the are beginning feel some of the impact. I think they got in bed with Government and Snowden came out and outed the whole situation and now they are in trouble. Things are just mushrooming now aren't they?

I wonder who is really pushing all of this? Is it really this president, or is it the NSA, FBI, CIA and others who might be misleading our sitting president? I mean are we really getting all the facts. This shit started with Bush and Cheney and now it seems to be getting worse.

If only poor little Obama could visit the Wizard and receive courage, a brain, and a spine, perhaps he could manage to escape this Bush and Cheney conspiracy . . .

How is this any different from other extra-territorial "rights" that the US has asserted for decades other than it affects corporations?

It's the never-ending expansion of it. Just some people like to pretend that the expansion is by fits and starts according to the President's political party. My innocent victim, your dastardly scoundrel. Second verse same as the first.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Four Questions
Agree that a US subpena has a global scope? No

Think that this is going to help US companies compete globally? No

What happens when release of information through a US subpena violates another country's privacy laws? If you're in that other country you get prosecuted.

Appears that either the Obama Administration or that companies, including Apple, Cisco, AT&T, are correct. If so, which do you think is correct? Apple et al is correct.

Uno

Answers in bold.

Jeebus, the way this admin is going I would do a corporate inversion even if there weren't any tax benefits.

Fern

 

[Fern]

No, this is wrong on many many levels. I think this all ties into the whole world wide spying crap honestly. I also think all of this is beginning to really affect the tech companies and the are beginning feel some of the impact. I think they got in bed with Government and Snowden came out and outed the whole situation and now they are in trouble. Things are just mushrooming now aren't they?

I wonder who is really pushing all of this? Is it really this president, or is it the NSA, FBI, CIA and others who might be misleading our sitting president? I mean are we really getting all the facts. This shit started with Bush and Cheney and now it seems to be getting worse.

If you believe Snowden, and if I correctly understand his claims, this is on Obama.

Snowden claimed that a legal opinion, which would be under Obama's control whether WH counsel or DoJ, was issued in late 2011 that expanded domestic spying and data collection.

Similarly, the govt position here is based on legal opinion either from the WH or DoJ (I'm guess the latter) and that's clearly Obama's baby.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Presidents of different stripes will change, but that Patriot Act, once it got let out of the bag by the Bush-Cheney Corp. will never get relinquished.

So yeah, it is Booooosh, and/or Cheney, that'll forever be held responsible for having this law getting unleashed on us.

It's that old thing about giving our leaders a power that, once given, becomes irrepressibly addicting. I don't see the day when that Act will ever get repealed.

I didn't have any big problem with the PA as described when it was announced. I'll also note that twice bipartisan attempts were made, passed into legislation and signed by Bush, to prohibited the domestic spying Snowden has exposed.

I don't think we're going to know anytime soon, but we need to see the who/when/how of how the PA morphed into this crap before blame can be properly assigned. Given what Snowden has claimed I believe it morphed under Obama and also believe he had the support of Repubs like McCain who've gone batshit crazy over fears of terrorism.

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-
It does really annoy how many of the vocal against Obama spying right now, were 100% lock step behind it when Bush was in office. If they and everyone like them were as against it then, as they are now, we may have been able to stop this at the beginning. Maybe people have grown and changed their opinions, but I think I a lot of it just has to do with the fact it is now a democratic doing it instead of a republican.

I think a lot of it has to do with what we've learned since Snowden. Before Obama came into office who knew the govt was collecting and storing all our data? Nobody. The damn Utah facility did not even exist until recently (opened last year IIRC).

You want to spy on foreigners? Heck, I don't care. You want to access their data that passes through US fiber or servers? I don't really care. We've spied on foreigners since before this country won the revolutionary war, and they've been spying on just us as long. Domestic spying is a different matter and an egregious violation of the 4th.

Fern

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If you believe Snowden, and if I correctly understand his claims, this is on Obama.

Snowden claimed that a legal opinion, which would be under Obama's control whether WH counsel or DoJ, was issued in late 2011 that expanded domestic spying and data collection.

Similarly, the govt position here is based on legal opinion either from the WH or DoJ (I'm guess the latter) and that's clearly Obama's baby.

Fern

Bush et al started it and Obama ran with it, galloped really. Any evil done by the prior administration has been magnified by this one and I'm tired of people finding excuses for Obama. Just as those who dislike Obama now but rooted for Bush, those who mitigate or divert from Obama's egregious acts are neocons, just a different party.

 

[Knowing]

...and the comment on the first page suggesting voting for a third party has 80 odd downvotes.

partisanship inaction

 

[werepossum]

I didn't have any big problem with the PA as described when it was announced. I'll also note that twice bipartisan attempts were made, passed into legislation and signed by Bush, to prohibited the domestic spying Snowden has exposed.

I don't think we're going to know anytime soon, but we need to see the who/when/how of how the PA morphed into this crap before blame can be properly assigned. Given what Snowden has claimed I believe it morphed under Obama and also believe he had the support of Repubs like McCain who've gone batshit crazy over fears of terrorism.

Fern

Problem is we were just flat-out wrong about the Patriot Act. It's impossible to give government that kind of power and not expect it to be abused.

This is 100% on Obama, but it's laid on a foundation of 100% Bush and will in turn be the foundation for the expanded spying for the next guy or girl, no matter the party. The core of both parties' leadership are in lockstep and while there are reasonably prominent politicians of both parties who might dial this back, there is zero chance of them being elected to the White House. Howard Dean was torpedoed by the Dems because they decided he was crazy; anyone not in favor of using this shiny new power (or open borders and amnesty for that matter) will be judged equally crazy.

 

[Matt1970]

Bush spies on everyone; what, are you a terrorist or something? What are you afraid of?!!?

Obama spies on everyone; ,.... BBLLLLLAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!
pukes, craps and pisses all over self

We should really get Bush to stop spying on us. Oh that's right, he is not in office anymore.