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Obama admin. knew millions could not keep their health insurance

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halik said:
I would see my insurance go up 80% on $25K income after subsidies. End of the story.

No amount of "it's all Rush Limbaugh lies" spin will change the fact that even for someone on $25K income has to pay extra $1K a year for health insurance after Obamacare. There's no amount of damage control you can do while handing people bills with their premiums doubling. This isn't fucking politics, it's actual people and their end's meet.


http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35674639&postcount=153
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They've justified it in other threads by saying the law was supposed to lower total health care expenses. It doesn't matter if YOUR expenses go up.

I love how carefree they are with my money.
 
Matt1970 said:
Getting up and knowingly lie your ass off to 7 to 10 million is not bad for a politician?
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If something is true for 95% of the population, and false for about 5%, that's pretty close to a universal truth in politics. When GOP promised their tax cuts and deregulation would stimulate the economy, we ended up in a recession, so that was BS 300Million Americans. When they said Iraq war would pay for itself, we ended up on the hook for $1T, BS for 300Million Americans. Obama's promise is true for 290M Americans, BS for 10M. Close enough, IMO.
 
senseamp said:
If something is true for 95% of the population, and false for about 5%, that's pretty close to a universal truth in politics. When GOP promised their tax cuts and deregulation would stimulate the economy, we ended up in a recession, so that was BS 300Million Americans. When they said Iraq war would pay for itself, we ended up on the hook for $1T, BS for 300Million Americans. Obama's promise is true for 290M Americans, BS for 10M. Close enough, IMO.
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Your previous post was excellent. This one however has you going full retard. Man, I was really liking the idea of starting to agree with you on something. Too good to be true. Oh well, I guess. :|
 
He got healthcare reform passed. And it's a good reform. I know a couple people who are uninsured and waiting for Obamacare Medicaid expansion to kick in next year to get care for a pre-existing condition. They are suffering now. Would I rather he tell the 100% truth? Yes, I like to hear all the caveats. And I have a sense of proportion to weigh good against the bad. On the other hand, the media doesn't. They will focus on the caveats and completely ignore the benefits, which is what they are doing now. A few million got cancellation notices. That has been happening every year for decades, and the media couldn't care less. Tens of millions were going without insurance, or had policies cancelled when they needed them, the media still doesn't care about them. I know what the signal is and what the noise is. Obama's SNR was pretty high for a politician.
 
senseamp said:
He got healthcare reform passed. And it's a good reform. I know a couple people who are uninsured and waiting for Obamacare Medicaid expansion to kick in next year to get care for a pre-existing condition. They are suffering now. Would I rather he tell the 100% truth? Yes, I like to hear all the caveats. And I have a sense of proportion to weigh good against the bad. On the other hand, the media doesn't. They will focus on the caveats and completely ignore the benefits, which is what they are doing now. A few million got cancellation notices. That has been happening every year for decades, and the media couldn't care less. Tens of millions were going without insurance, or had policies cancelled when they needed them, the media still doesn't care about them. I know what the signal is and what the noise is. Obama's SNR was pretty high for a politician.
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The only thing that I would change/slightly disagree on is dismissing the cancellations as somewhat "business as usual". Yes, cancellations happen all the time. But in this case, many of the cancellations happened due to government action and not due to a routine. That fact is too important to dismiss in such cavalier terms. Fine if people want to somehow make insurance companies the bad guys here, I am no defender of them. However, choices were made for them, by the government that forced their hand on many of these cancellations. That, also, should not be ignored. Basically, the politicians who signed this into law need to be accountable for their actions. If those actions are detrimental to some people, then take responsibility, own up to it and stop blaming someone else. If this all works out better in the end, then they deserve credit for their actions. That's how accountability works. Its a double edge sword and cuts both ways.
 
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xBiffx said:
The only thing that I would change/slightly disagree on is dismissing the cancellations as somewhat "business as usual". Yes, cancellations happen all the time. But in this case, many of the cancellations happened due to government action and not due to a routine. That fact is too important to dismiss in such cavalier terms. Fine if people want to somehow make insurance companies the bad guys here, I am no defender of them. However, choices were made for them, by the government that forced their hand on many of these cancellations. That, also, should not be ignored. Basically, the politicians who signed this into law need to be accountable for their actions. If those actions are detrimental to some people, then take responsibility, own up to it and stop blaming someone else. If this all works out better in the end, then they deserve credit for their actions. That's how accountability works. Its a double edge sword and cuts both ways.
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Sure, it should be judged as benefit minus drawbacks. So far we don't know what the extent of the drawbacks is, since a lot of the people who got cancellations are eligible for subsidies and possibly better plans in exchanges. But in terms of percentages, even in worst case, cancellations are a pretty small problem. The benefits, on the other hand don't get any attention in the media.
 
senseamp said:
Sure, it should be judged as benefit minus drawbacks. So far we don't know what the extent of the drawbacks is, since a lot of the people who got cancellations are eligible for subsidies and possibly better plans in exchanges. But in terms of percentages, even in worst case, cancellations are a pretty small problem. The benefits, on the other hand don't get any attention in the media.
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You are talking about overall benefits. You aren't talking about the benefits of an insurance plan being forcefully cancelled and then replaced with another, allegedly, better plan. Those benefits, and whether or not the new plan is in fact better, remain to be seen.

But yes, there are benefits to those with preexisting conditions. But everything in life has trade-offs. The coverage of preexisting conditions will come at a price. Again, it remains to be seen how these trade-offs work out for everyone in the end.

Also, don't expect the media to cover the benefits. That doesn't sell news. There is no way to sensationalize that topic like they can others. The media is in business of getting you to tune in longer and more frequently and what you want to see doesn't get them to that goal nearly as efficiently as the other topics.
 
senseamp said:
If something is true for 95% of the population, and false for about 5%, that's pretty close to a universal truth in politics. When GOP promised their tax cuts and deregulation would stimulate the economy, we ended up in a recession, so that was BS 300Million Americans. When they said Iraq war would pay for itself, we ended up on the hook for $1T, BS for 300Million Americans. Obama's promise is true for 290M Americans, BS for 10M. Close enough, IMO.
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So now we are going to move the goalposts for the definition of the truth. The problem is when it is phrased like this:

"We will keep this promise to the American people, if you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan, PERIOD. "

When he said the "period" at the end, and he said it plain as day, that means no ifs, ands, buts or exceptions. Can you tell you your boss you finished your work when you have 5% to go? Have you made it to your destination if you are only 95% of the way there? Can you consider yourself cancer free if 5% of your boys has cancer?
 
Matt1970 said:
So now we are going to move the goalposts for the definition of the truth. The problem is when it is phrased like this:

"We will keep this promise to the American people, if you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan, PERIOD. "

When he said the "period" at the end, and he said it plain as day, that means no ifs, ands, buts or exceptions. Can you tell you your boss you finished your work when you have 5% to go? Have you made it to your destination if you are only 95% of the way there? Can you consider yourself cancer free if 5% of your boys has cancer?
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I get to keep my plan if I want to, so it was 100% TRUE to me.
It was 100% TRUE to 95% of the people.
 
senseamp said:
I get to keep my plan if I want to, so it was 100% TRUE to me.
It was 100% TRUE to 95% of the people.
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Your behavior is abominable. It is rare for a politician to be caught so cleanly and flawlessly lying as this, and yet still his sycophants scramble to be first to put their nose in his mud pie. Don't you feel embarrassed?

In any case your figure is way off. The figure of those forced to lose it is in the ballpark of half.
 
Doppel said:
Your behavior is abominable. It is rare for a politician to be caught so cleanly and flawlessly lying as this, and yet still his sycophants scramble to be first to put their nose in his mud pie. Don't you feel embarrassed?

In any case your figure is way off. The figure of those forced to lose it is in the ballpark of half.
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Half of individual market, which is about 5% of Americans. I am not in the individual market so it was 100% True for me.
 
Londo_Jowo said:
You sure seem to have the "I've got mine, screw everyone else" attitude, I though only greedy people on the right were supposed to have that attitude
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I am just stating the fact that what Obama said was true for me. It's not a left or right thing, just a fact.
 
TerryMathews said:
Bet you wouldn't feel that way if Bush said it.
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If Iraq had 95% of the WMD's claimed by Bush, I would feel that way.
If Iraqi oil paid 95% of the costs of the Iraq war, I would feel the same way too.
If "Mission Accomplished" meant that we were 95% done with Iraq, ditto.
I can go on.
 
senseamp said:
If Iraq had 95% of the WMD's claimed by Bush, I would feel that way.
If Iraqi oil paid 95% of the costs of the Iraq war, I would feel the same way too.
If "Mission Accomplished" meant that we were 95% done with Iraq, ditto.
I can go on.
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You can take that up with Bush next time he is President.

senseamp said:
It's a fact to 95% of the people.
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And a lie to 5%

senseamp said:
That is your OPINION. I am just stating a FACT. The plan I had before is still available to me, just like Obama said it would be.
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And to the people who were told they could keep their plan, but lost it? Is it a fact to them?
 
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senseamp said:
Half of individual market, which is about 5% of Americans. I am not in the individual market so it was 100% True for me.
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Your attempts at being blatantly retarded are not only successful but wildy so. I couldn't troll this hard if I tried, I don't think.

If you are not trolling your understanding of how to numerically understand arguments is just fucking disgraceful.
 
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