Obama’s Popularity in Arab World Now Lower than Bush’s

[Fern]

You have no source to back up your claims. Hence, you made it all up.

Yeah, we had a thread on it here back when UBL was killed.

It was some site that claimed to have insider info. I remember it pretty clearly.

Fern

 

[NeoV]

PJ - stop it - you aren't this stupid

From the article you two morons are parading - much of the increased 'unfavorable' opinions of Obama in the region are due the OBL killing - what part of that do you not get?

This gives desperation a bad name, it's quite pathetic.

As for this old moron from Texas - thank you for adding to my 'people to ignore' list - you aren't simply old, foolish, and apparently racist - you are friggin crazy

 

[cliftonite]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in the OP.

I thought that my comments would have been enough for you guys to understand my point:

A lot of people on the left and this forum truly believed that Obama was going to change the world. He would ride in on his rainbow unicorn and everyone would love us.

Obama over promised and the left ate it up. He did every thing but say "If we only talk to them they will love us" And the left believed him. They really thought that Obama could make the people in the middle east love us just by talking to us. And now reality is staring us in the face.

Our relationships in the middle east are no better today than they were when Bush was in office. In fact they may be worse. Obama screwed up in Egypt. We are on the verge of losing Pakistan (may not be his fault) and he has decided to get out Afghanistan for purely political reasons. (timing the withdrawal to happen right before the election)

You can debate whether his foreign policy is or is not a failure, but when it comes to achieving what he claimed he would he is a complete failure.

A lot of people on the left? Please, outside of a fringe few one one expected any of shit from him. You saying it does not make it true.

 

[cliftonite]

Yeah, we had a thread on it here back when UBL was killed.

It was some site that claimed to have insider info. I remember it pretty clearly.

Fern

So no solid source just anonymous BS that anyone could have made up.

 

[blackangst1]

Bobo, the Post Turtle,did NOT kill Osama. He was afraid to issue the kill order so he voted "present" and gave that authority to the Director of Central Intelligence, Mr. Panetta. That way, in typical politician manner, he would have some one to blame if anything went wrong. As soon as the mission was a success, of course he took full credit. He was not even told of the mission till it was well on its way and too late to stop. Great leadership there Bobo............NOT!

He really thinks we are all that stupid.

Apparently, you just might be. I hope not.

There is no credible evidence Panetta gave the order. In fact, in an interview with NBC/Brian Williams, Panetta said Obama gave the order.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: When did the President's order in this mission become real and go up and become a possibility?

LEON PANETTA: Well, as you know as we've been- debating this issue for a long time. And we had a number of sessions at the White House going over all of the intelligence and all of the approaches as to how we would conduct these operations. But it wasn't until Thursday morning that the national security advisor called me and said that the President had made a decision to proceed with this operation. And then later that day I received orders signed by the President of the United States to proceed to conduct this operation under Title 50, which means it was a covert operation. And we would be responsible from the President for seeing that this mission was accomplished.

 

[kage69]

I was sifting through old headlines and bookmarks that I made years ago, some back to 2002.

Amazing how many defended, even praised, Team Cheney leading the hunt on a different trail, ultimately to have it fail in getting OBL within their two terms in office. Let's set aside the loss in life, money and sympathy that was incurred by all that just for now.

The new guy running for office says, and I quote:

"And if we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then I think that we have to act, and we will take them out.

We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority."


..and does exactly that halfway through his first term by circumventing the corrupt and obviously infiltrated Pakistani military. He pursued the goal in an intelligent manner and knew when to side with the pros, and when to go for it. It's the stuff of movies, and if it had been a Republican president many here would still be sporting woodies months after Sheik Cyclops gave modern free-diving a try.

But it isn't a Republican president, so instead those like a777 do their best to invalidate Obama's successful performance in office while trying to sound respectfully insightful. He doesn't deserve all the credit, but he was hardly watching from the sidelines. Funny to see the talk radio crowd try to rally behind Panetta, a man they recently derided when he was selected by Obama. The words of Panetta himself, along with Mullen and others, in the end mean far, far, faaaaar more than... what was it again? "Certain inside sources that spoke with confidence" or something?


Question for all the new financial experts hanging around here lately:

What's the difference (ballpark?) in cost between a roughly year long lead-up to a 'snuff and grab' in Pakistan, and the ongoing cost of invading and rebuilding of Iraq?


Where the polls were taken means everything if we're talking Middle East. Kuwait or UAE will probably yield different results than Pakistan or Iran, for instance. I fail to see how any rational human, regardless of nationality, could weigh a single person's life as more important or noteworthy than the hundreds of thousands that are normally lost in a war, specifically the invasion of Iraq.

Still, let some Arabs enjoy their cardamon flavored cup O rage, what the fuck do I care?

 

[a777pilot]

There is no credible evidence Panetta gave the order. In fact, in an interview with NBC/Brian Williams, Panetta said Obama gave the order.

Then the report is correct. Mr. Panetta was given the authority to oversee/direct this mission.

Good to have this part confirmed.

 

[UberNeuman]

I was sifting through old headlines and bookmarks that I made years ago, some back to 2002.

Amazing how many defended, even praised, Team Cheney leading the hunt on a different trail, ultimately to have it fail in getting OBL within their two terms in office. Let's set aside the loss in life, money and sympathy that was incurred by all that just for now.

The new guy running for office says, and I quote:

"And if we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then I think that we have to act, and we will take them out.

We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority."


..and does exactly that halfway through his first term by circumventing the corrupt and obviously infiltrated Pakistani military. He pursued the goal in an intelligent manner and knew when to side with the pros, and when to go for it. It's the stuff of movies, and if it had been a Republican president many here would still be sporting woodies months after Sheik Cyclops gave modern free-diving a try.

But it isn't a Republican president, so instead those like a777 do their best to invalidate Obama's successful performance in office while trying to sound respectfully insightful. He doesn't deserve all the credit, but he was hardly watching from the sidelines. Funny to see the talk radio crowd try to rally behind Panetta, a man they recently derided when he was selected by Obama. The words of Panetta himself, along with Mullen and others, in the end mean far, far, faaaaar more than... what was it again? "Certain inside sources that spoke with confidence" or something?


Question for all the new financial experts hanging around here lately:

What's the difference (ballpark?) in cost between a roughly year long lead-up to a 'snuff and grab' in Pakistan, and the ongoing cost of invading and rebuilding of Iraq?


Where the polls were taken means everything if we're talking Middle East. Kuwait or UAE will probably yield different results than Pakistan or Iran, for instance. I fail to see how any rational human, regardless of nationality, could weigh a single person's life as more important or noteworthy than the hundreds of thousands that are normally lost in a war, specifically the invasion of Iraq.

Still, let some Arabs enjoy their cardamon flavored cup O rage, what the fuck do I care?

:thumbsup:

 

[UberNeuman]

It's a rough day in GOP world when they care about the anger of the "arab" world...

 

[ProfJohn]

Why do people trip over themselves to give Obama credit for the Osama killing??

Obama really had no choice but to give the order to make the hit.
If he had turned them down and it got out he would have been crucified in the media and on the campaign trail.

Once they had enough proof that Osama was in their then Obama had no choice but to give the order.

It was the right choice and it was a risky choice, but it was really the only choice he had.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Why do people trip over themselves to give Obama credit for the Osama killing??

Obama really had no choice but to give the order to make the hit.
If he had turned them down and it got out he would have been crucified in the media and on the campaign trail.

Once they had enough proof that Osama was in their then Obama had no choice but to give the order.

It was the right choice and it was a risky choice, but it was really the only choice he had.

Disagree. He could absolutely have ordered a cruise missile strike or similar, which would have totally eliminated the risk of an Operation Eagle Claw-style failure (a failure that in fact nearly occurred due to the crash of one chopper) and resulting loss of life. If the mission had ended like Eagle Claw, it would have had exactly the effect on his presidency that Eagle Claw had on Carter's, which is why Gates was so hesitant about the SEAL mission the President ordered. Instead, in the interest of having certainty about the death of UBL and in the hopes of securing intel information, he took that risk and the mission was a total success. I don't think it's fair to take credit away from him - this was a ballsy decision and he didn't blink.

 

[BeauJangles]

Why do people trip over themselves to give Obama credit for the Osama killing??

Why do you try to give him zero credit?

Obama really had no choice but to give the order to make the hit.
If he had turned them down and it got out he would have been crucified in the media and on the campaign trail.

That's crap. I'd like to see how Republicans could criticize Obama for refusing to send US soldiers into Pakistan based on intelligence that both he (in your hypothetical scenario) and Robert Gates thought wasn't bulletproof.

The FAR RISKIER thing to do was to order this raid using DEVGRU. In fact, it was the ballsiest choice Obama could have made. He was sending US troops into another country based on intelligence that couldn't definitively say Osama was there. Imagine what would have happened had Pakistan captured some of these guys or had there been some huge firefight between US forces and Pakistani force?

Obama could have been a sissy and ordered a missile strike. No chance for capture and deniability (to some extent) on our part if something went wrong, but he went for the whole enchillada -- hard proof that he had killed Bin Laden. That takes some serious stones.

Once they had enough proof that Osama was in their then Obama had no choice but to give the order.

They didn't have "enough proof," they had strong circumstantial evidence that Osama was there, but they had no smoking gun.

It was the right choice and it was a risky choice, but it was really the only choice he had.

This statement is factually false. Obama could have easily ordered a missile strike or done nothing. There is nothing in the intelligence briefing he was given that would have been very damning if he had chosen not to act. The CIA had no physical proof Osama was there and, if he passed on the raid what we may have eventually learned was that the CIA thought he was there, but didn't have good enough intelligence to act. That's been the story of OBL since 2001 and before.

Edit: just to be clear, I don't think Obama is all he's cracked up to be, but my hats off to him for executing this raid. It took balls of steel to issue that order.

 

[CitizenKain]

Why do people trip over themselves to give Obama credit for the Osama killing??

Because Republicans flail around like the retarded manchildren then are to discredit the Obama administration?

 

[between]

And this matters... how?

1) If people, or even the entire world, hates you, then maybe, just MAYBE< you might be doing something wrong.

2) more people hating the US = more terrorist attacks, murder of US citizens, etc.

 

[ProfJohn]

Disagree. He could absolutely have ordered a cruise missile strike or similar, which would have totally eliminated the risk of an Operation Eagle Claw-style failure (a failure that in fact nearly occurred due to the crash of one chopper) and resulting loss of life. If the mission had ended like Eagle Claw, it would have had exactly the effect on his presidency that Eagle Claw had on Carter's, which is why Gates was so hesitant about the SEAL mission the President ordered. Instead, in the interest of having certainty about the death of UBL and in the hopes of securing intel information, he took that risk and the mission was a total success. I don't think it's fair to take credit away from him - this was a ballsy decision and he didn't blink.

Good points.

And I do give him credit. But the people who spent years tracking Osama and the people who really deserve credit. Not the guy who made the phone call at the end.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Good points.

And I do give him credit. But the people who spent years tracking Osama and the people who really deserve credit. Not the guy who made the phone call at the end.

They absolutely deserve credit, but so does the President. I will say, as well, that it turned out the years of stalking was not what led to our finding his location. I say that not as a criticism of the brave men and women in our intelligence service but rather as an observation that we have a lot of work to do to improve our HUMINT-gathering capacity, particularly in the Middle East.

 

[ProfJohn]

Would Bush or McCain have given the same order?

I think so.

So yes his decision was brave and risky and had it gone wrong he would have taken the blame, but it is not like he did something that no one else would have done.

So give the guy credit for making the right call, but don't act like he made this amazingly unbelievable decision that no one else would have dared to make.

BTW that comment is not aimed at you Don, but the fools who think Obama is going to stand on stage with a pic of Osama behind him and that is all it will take to win in 2012.

 

[Dulanic]

Would Bush or McCain have given the same order?

I think so.

So yes his decision was brave and risky and had it gone wrong he would have taken the blame, but it is not like he did something that no one else would have done.

So give the guy credit for making the right call, but don't act like he made this amazingly unbelievable decision that no one else would have dared to make.

BTW that comment is not aimed at you Don, but the fools who think Obama is going to stand on stage with a pic of Osama behind him and that is all it will take to win in 2012.

Wait so you are saying his decision was only brave because it is what bush would do? Oh that's new even for you lol

 

[Sonikku]

I'm guessing that if Obama had simply allowed Bin Laden to do his thing and turn a blind eye to his hiding place, Obama would now be seen in a brighter light by all of these Arab countries that looked to bin laden as a hero and living legend.

Then the topic title would be "OBAMA NOT TUFF E NUFF ON TERRORITZ".

 

[kage69]

Would Bush or McCain have given the same order? I think so.

Your famously incorrect intuition aside, it sure would sound better had Bush bothered to make killing bin Laden his top national security priority.

If Bush had the stones and leadership of Obama bin Laden would have most likely never made it out of Tora Bora, and the cost in money and life we've suffered since then would not have been paid.


I'm still laughing at the likes of Professional John trying to make political hay out of popularity polls in the Arab world. Hilarious!

 

[Fern]

-snip-
I'm still laughing at the likes of Professional John trying to make political hay out of popularity polls in the Arab world. Hilarious!

In all fairness, we had plenty of people "trying to make political hay out of popularity polls in the Arab world" when GWB was President.

Fern

 

[sandorski]

In all fairness, we had plenty of people "trying to make political hay out of popularity polls in the Arab world" when GWB was President.

Fern

Completely different reasons.

 

[Fern]

Completely different reasons.

For once I agree with you, but probably not the way you may think.

Fern

 

[kage69]

In all fairness, we had plenty of people "trying to make political hay out of popularity polls in the Arab world" when GWB was President.

Fern

Yeah, it was during the leadup to a war. Many Americans were concerned we'd alienate valuable allies in the Middle East with our unilateral cowboy adventurism and flush all the support and goodwill we had post 9/11 down the drain. This happened to varying degrees.

I don't think it's fair at all to compare that to a political segment which has been on record as not giving two shi!ts about what the Arab world thinks, in fact their usual sentiments often involve turning large swathes of the ME into glass with nukes.

So why do these guys suddenly care about what the Arab world thinks? It's just more desperation from the anti-Obama crowd, and Professional John dutifully presents it so we can all laugh. Least he's good for something I guess, even if it's embarrassing himself with idiotic positions and polls.

 

[BeauJangles]

Would Bush or McCain have given the same order?

I think so.

So yes his decision was brave and risky and had it gone wrong he would have taken the blame, but it is not like he did something that no one else would have done.

And people would have commended those leaders for making the right choice if they'd be in the same position. It takes balls to do what Obama did, regardless of whether someone else would have made the same choice.

So give the guy credit for making the right call, but don't act like he made this amazingly unbelievable decision that no one else would have dared to make.

Nobody said that except you.

BTW that comment is not aimed at you Don, but the fools who think Obama is going to stand on stage with a pic of Osama behind him and that is all it will take to win in 2012.

If Obama wins, killing Osama will have little do with it.