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NYT humanizes Nazi sympathizers in new article

I think this article is making the point that because these white nationalists live on the same streets as we do, eat at the same restaurants, watch the same TV shows, etc. that they may not be so easy to identify. Most of these Nazi sympathizers aren't walking around with giant swastika tattoos giving sieg heil salutes. And they are, in fact, making active efforts to make their views seem more mainstream. It's kind of scary to think that the family next door with its 2 cats and its hybrid SUV might be teaching their kids that the negro man is a subhuman. I read the editorial as more of a warning than an attempt to excuse white nationalist views.
 
@ fivr: I think you misread the article. It's a warning that Nazism is becoming accepted due to the ambivalence of our society. There is nothing normal about white supremacists.
 
Most Americans would be disgusted and baffled by his casually approving remarks about Hitler, disdain for democracy and belief that the races are better off separate.

The Hitler remarks baffle me the most, but disdain for democracy, and racial scapegoats? That's a person being crushed economically and wants to both hate the system and blame the "other" for their pain and misery. There are Americans who felt left behind as children and grew into hate like snuggling up to a warm blanket. It is their comfort, a guise. The answer is to understand why they wear it, and to tackle that issue instead.

Understand your opponent, out-think your opponent. Then run circles around them.

An America that is healthy and strong, an America that shares this wealth with its people, will be an America with no corner for hateful bigots to hide in. No room for them to fester and rot. We can cleanse ourselves but first we must know how. The most difficult part is making the American people strong again, strong enough to resist and cast down messages of hate.
 
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These are people who destroyed their own prosperity by electing Republicans over last 40 years. But instead of looking in the mirror, they are looking for someone else to blame. Nice try.
 
I think this article is making the point that because these white nationalists live on the same streets as we do, eat at the same restaurants, watch the same TV shows, etc. that they may not be so easy to identify. Most of these Nazi sympathizers aren't walking around with giant swastika tattoos giving sieg heil salutes. And they are, in fact, making active efforts to make their views seem more mainstream. It's kind of scary to think that the family next door with its 2 cats and its hybrid SUV might be teaching their kids that the negro man is a subhuman. I read the editorial as more of a warning than an attempt to excuse white nationalist views.

These people are wannabe Nazis. They believe in gassing jews and the supremacy of the white race. As far as I am concerned, they are the same as wannabe ISIS. Would the NYT write an article about a muslim family that sympathized with ISIS in the same manner? As if they are "just like us" and no real threat?

These people (Nazis) should be closely monitored by the government just like ISIS sympathizers should be. They are a threat to everyone around them and the country itself. They are not "normal" and they should not be portrayed as such. It is irresponsible to do so.
 
These people are wannabe Nazis. They believe in gassing jews and the supremacy of the white race. As far as I am concerned, they are the same as wannabe ISIS. Would the NYT write an article about a muslim family that sympathized with ISIS in the same manner? As if they are "just like us" and no real threat?

These people (Nazis) should be closely monitored by the government just like ISIS sympathizers should be. They are a threat to everyone around them and the country itself. They are not "normal" and they should not be portrayed as such. It is irresponsible to do so.
You may be better able to understand yourself if you substitute the word Jews for Nazi wannabes, and Nazi wannabe for Jew. I think you should be on the government watch list right up there with other fanatics, no?
 
I don't understand any time where dehumanizing is the best thing. I understand when it's the best someone can do.

Edit: I'm reading through the article now. Experiencing disgust, anger, anxiety. I'm really thankful for it.
 
I don't understand any time where dehumanizing is the best thing. I understand when it's the best someone can do.

Edit: I'm reading through the article now. Experiencing disgust, anger, anxiety. I'm really thankful for it.
One can hope that the best one can do is subject to improvement over time.
 
One can hope that the best one can do is subject to improvement over time.

At the very least, an attentional shift can dramatically change the behavior of a person. Even if we are incapable of bettering ourselves, we are capable of attending to more useful variables.
 
You may be better able to understand yourself if you substitute the word Jews for Nazi wannabes, and Nazi wannabe for Jew. I think you should be on the government watch list right up there with other fanatics, no?

I didn't peg you for a nazi sympathizer but I guess you feel the need to carry water for them for whatever reason. Do you advocate for a white ethno-state? Do you believe Hitler did nothing wrong? Why are these people (Nazis) any better than ISIS? Is it because they believe in the same God and worship at the same churches that you do?


The Atlantic came out with a much better article in response to this puff garbage NYT piece. You should take a look.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-banality-of-white-nationalism/546749/
 
And an even better parody of the NYT puff piece:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/11/a-nazi-cooks-pasta/546737/

Nazis Are Just Like You and Me, Except They're Nazis
Despite what you may have read in The New York Times



ELKO, Nevada—“The water is almost ready,” he said, bending down to look for the little bubbles. “Once you see the bubbles rising to the surface, you know the water is hot enough to cook the pasta.”

Steve Stevenson dispenses wisdom freely, though he is not a chef. He is 32 years old, and he drinks whole milk, and his tattoos are nonviolent. The kitchen spice rack contains only garlic powder. He wears jeans made of denim. The t-shirt on his back has a tag sticking out, and I read it as he leans in to eye the pot of water: “100 percent cotton.”

“What can I say,” jokes Stevenson, as he sees me taking note of the spice rack. “I like garlic powder.”

We both chuckle. The shimmering evening sun glints off the porcelain saltshaker and casts a long shadow onto the linoleum. As I follow its path, his wife Stephanie appears in the kitchen doorway, an exasperated look on her face.

“You forgot to put the toilet seat down again,” she says, rolling her eyes and pulling her phone out of her back pocket. Stephanie is pretty. Her hair is saffron and flaxen, and she wears jeans also, and she has a wry smile.

Stephanie Stevenson is followed by a normal dog, who walks into the room with a slight limp, and Stephen pets it. He leans in.

“The Jews control all the money, and the world would be better off if they were dead,” he says, petting the dog. “Who’s a good boy?”

The question is rhetorical. I ask about the wallpaper.

Some people disagree with Stevenson’s political views.

“He’s a nice enough guy,” said the local grocer, Butch Tarmac, a registered Democrat. “He buys apples and pancake mix. I also like those things. But I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on the bit about the one true race cleansing the soil and commanding what is rightfully theirs.”

“It’s totally fucked up,” said one person, whose name I didn’t catch.

Sometimes the Stevensons go to Applebee’s. There they like to order margaritas and onion rings and laugh about some of the paraphernalia on the walls.

“The World War II propaganda is just really far out,” laughs Stevenson. He does an impression of a hippie when he says “far out.” He has a full and radiant smile. I ask him if he had braces, and he says yes.

“Hitler gets a bad rap, but he was a pretty righteous dude,” he says, half addressing me, and half addressing his four wide-eyed children. We’re all crammed into the booth like a bunch of sardines. He tells me to only refer to him and his Nazi friends as “The Traditionalist Worker Party,” and I agree to do that.

I ask if the kids go to public school.

The Stevensons laugh.

“The schools are full of coloreds,” says Stephanie, smiling wryly. Her teeth shimmer in the reflected glow of the neon and the flaxen colored nacho cheese. She is wearing a cotton-wool hoodie and her hair is in hasty ponytail, spilling out in places like spaghetti in a full pot, in an attractive way. “I know I’m not supposed to say that, I know it’s not P.C. or whatever, but they are.”

She is wearing an arm band with an embroidered swastika. It is available for purchase here. [Link redacted.]

I ask about the well-worn Aerosmith t-shirt peeking out through the open zipper of her hoodie. She says she has seen the band three times, and each time was “amazing.”

I press her on this. In my experience, the band declined since the late 1990s.

“They played ‘Dream On’ and ‘Walk This Way’,” she gushes.

Hadn’t she noticed that Steven Tyler’s vocal quality had significantly deteriorated over the past decade? Didn’t that matter at all?

“Those are her favorite songs!” says her husband. I worry I’m hitting a nerve. The first Aerosmith concert was where Stephen proposed to Stephanie, and the sentimental magnitude was clearly formative to their romantic bond.

He adds that the song “Dude (Looks Like a Lady)” is feminist deep-state mind control. He instructs his kids to do violence to any boys who appear feminine.

The Stevensons have two cars and they are both green.

 
I think this article is making the point that because these white nationalists live on the same streets as we do, eat at the same restaurants, watch the same TV shows, etc. that they may not be so easy to identify. Most of these Nazi sympathizers aren't walking around with giant swastika tattoos giving sieg heil salutes. And they are, in fact, making active efforts to make their views seem more mainstream. It's kind of scary to think that the family next door with its 2 cats and its hybrid SUV might be teaching their kids that the negro man is a subhuman. I read the editorial as more of a warning than an attempt to excuse white nationalist views.

It's foolish to make people into what they are and these people don't have a cartoon bubble floating over themselves saying "nazi". The article us useful to the open minded in that it shows they do indeed act like everyone else. What they believe is disgusting and nothing changes that but as you say reality and expectation of what these people look like are not the same.
 
The Hitler remarks baffle me the most
These people are wannabe Nazis. They believe in gassing jews and the supremacy of the white race.

There are so many shades of grey to it.

First, there are real bonafide Nazi wannabes like you described. Maybe the person in the article is much closer to that given the Hitler reference. America should shun, denounce, and minimize their influence as much as possible. However, what was their big rally in the summer, 300 strong? People on that far end of the spectrum are a minuscule force. What I fear you, and others, may be doing is taking that hateful extremist and stereotyping many millions of others with that same image. As if they are all the same. For example, all Trump voters?

My message to P&N is the exact same message we faced with regards to people saying that Islam = Terrorism. It was wrong then, to collectively punish the many for the crimes of the few. It is still wrong today. P&N needs to be consistent, honest, and moral. We need to discern that while Nazis may be Republican, Republicans are not Nazis.

There are all sorts of motives and scales among which people of such a large and diverse group sit. They range from the rich party establishment, to the partisan pundit, to the languishing worker, many of whom have been propagandized to blame others and to relish in the taste of Democrat's tears. They even include the diehard sieg heil !@#%ers we'd be happy to lynch. It is very important then, that we specify who we are speaking of, how much support that actually have, as opposed to people that have been herded together under different reasons.

2016 was no referendum for Nazisim in the US. They have no majority, or even mainstream support. Though the party they hide behind does. We must then, be careful to separate the two lest we drive partisanship TOWARDS them. Allowing the smaller parasite to siphon off the larger host would be huge mistake. We must be careful lest we encourage more to join their cause simply because we acted in disregard.

We should not stereotype or slander the greater population as Nazi, or speak in a ways that fuel partisanship. We should not give rise to the feeling or thoughts that they belong together. Otherwise people would literally begin to think that, and the more we fall for it... the more common that thinking becomes. It can become a self fulfilling prophecy if we act in ways that encourage it. Don't do that.

We should support the American people, especially the working poor who are vulnerable to propaganda. We can help inoculate and protect them from the messaging of blaming others. We need to reach out and get to them before the Nazi filth does. We need to encourage those who already work with them to abandon their support and instead recognize that we are the economic solution, that we are the party of the people and the hope for change they're looking for.

Push for economic reforms to help those caught in the middle, and you can be that inspiration to peel them away from hateful groups.
 
Would the NYT write an article about a muslim family that sympathized with ISIS in the same manner? As if they are "just like us" and no real threat?

Are you sure that they wouldn't? Channel Four over here did that 'Jihadis next door' program, which was a bit like that. Then one of them went on to participate in the London Bridge attack. I could imagine the NYT doing a similar article, to be honest.

And if the NYT did run such an article, I'm betting most of the complaints would be from Muslims, angry at 'extremists' being presented as being normal Muslims.

I suppose in that spirit, one might actually be bothered that this article casts a shadow over all the other 'normal' middle-class white Americans.

Interesting that he cites Rothbard and anarcho-capitalism. The intersection of Rothbard-school libertarians and racism/anti-semitism puzzles me. Much as I disagree with libertarianism, those two things don't philosophically go together. Yet its like there's a particular strand of 'libertarianism' that (sometimes) embraces racism.

One common thread seems to be the distrust of 'big banking' and an obsession with the gold standard.
 
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Humanizing is not the same as accepting. Humanizing can lead to acceptance, but I think the intent was to show us who they are. Yes, the article did miss a beat somewhat because it was looking for a single galvanizing event that turned that person into a white nationalist, an event which article NYT admits never happened in the first place. I realize the danger of normalizing things by humanizing them, but I think that if we're to solve this problem, we need to understand it first, and this is article is one of many that tries to do that.
 
I think this article is making the point that because these white nationalists live on the same streets as we do, eat at the same restaurants, watch the same TV shows, etc. that they may not be so easy to identify. Most of these Nazi sympathizers aren't walking around with giant swastika tattoos giving sieg heil salutes. And they are, in fact, making active efforts to make their views seem more mainstream. It's kind of scary to think that the family next door with its 2 cats and its hybrid SUV might be teaching their kids that the negro man is a subhuman. I read the editorial as more of a warning than an attempt to excuse white nationalist views.

Thank you. I certainly didn't take the article that way but it does make sense. These people cannot be normalized.
 
There are so many shades of grey to it.

First, there are real bonafide Nazi wannabes like you described. Maybe the person in the article is much closer to that given the Hitler reference. America should shun, denounce, and minimize their influence as much as possible. However, what was their big rally in the summer, 300 strong? People on that far end of the spectrum are a minuscule force. What I fear you, and others, may be doing is taking that hateful extremist and stereotyping many millions of others with that same image. As if they are all the same. For example, all Trump voters?

My message to P&N is the exact same message we faced with regards to people saying that Islam = Terrorism. It was wrong then, to collectively punish the many for the crimes of the few. It is still wrong today. P&N needs to be consistent, honest, and moral. We need to discern that while Nazis may be Republican, Republicans are not Nazis.

There are all sorts of motives and scales among which people of such a large and diverse group sit. They range from the rich party establishment, to the partisan pundit, to the languishing worker, many of whom have been propagandized to blame others and to relish in the taste of Democrat's tears. They even include the diehard sieg heil !@#%ers we'd be happy to lynch. It is very important then, that we specify who we are speaking of, how much support that actually have, as opposed to people that have been herded together under different reasons.

2016 was no referendum for Nazisim in the US. They have no majority, or even mainstream support. Though the party they hide behind does. We must then, be careful to separate the two lest we drive partisanship TOWARDS them. Allowing the smaller parasite to siphon off the larger host would be huge mistake. We must be careful lest we encourage more to join their cause simply because we acted in disregard.

We should not stereotype or slander the greater population as Nazi, or speak in a ways that fuel partisanship. We should not give rise to the feeling or thoughts that they belong together. Otherwise people would literally begin to think that, and the more we fall for it... the more common that thinking becomes. It can become a self fulfilling prophecy if we act in ways that encourage it. Don't do that.

We should support the American people, especially the working poor who are vulnerable to propaganda. We can help inoculate and protect them from the messaging of blaming others. We need to reach out and get to them before the Nazi filth does. We need to encourage those who already work with them to abandon their support and instead recognize that we are the economic solution, that we are the party of the people and the hope for change they're looking for.

Push for economic reforms to help those caught in the middle, and you can be that inspiration to peel them away from hateful groups.

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, I'm going to call it a duck. I'll also continue to advocate for policies that may help these people but that's a consequence of the policies I support.
 
FIVR: I didn't peg you for a nazi sympathizer but I guess you feel the need to carry water for them for whatever reason.

My intention has nothing to do with supporting them, only criticizing you, and the reason I did that is because you demonstrate the characteristics of a fanatic, the very thing you object to. It is only natural that you would turn a criticism of you as just another kind of fanatic into me defending the thing you are fanatical about.

F: Do you advocate for a white ethno-state?

M: I have a deep and abiding faith in a nation full of diversity and the capacities conferred by taking into account different points of view. It also adds to my dinning pleasure as I am quite enamored of numerous ethnic cuisines.

F: Do you believe Hitler did nothing wrong? Why are these people (Nazis) any better than ISIS? Is it because they believe in the same God and worship at the same churches that you do?

M: I don't attend church and I am not a traditional believer. For me God is our human potential, unknown by most and if ever achieved, ,achieved by very few. This is just another symptom of why I call you a fanatic. You demonize people like you here try to demonize me.

I see you as driven by the fear of the other, hating about them what you hate about yourself. The thing I fear is facing (feeling) just how much I am just like you, facing it in reality rather than on an intellectual level.
 
Are NeoNazis the new Russians? For a group that is very insignificant in terms of power and members, the media is doing all it can to promote and shine a spotlight on everyone and everything labeled as a Nazi/white supremacist. I don't get the fascination with white supremacists.
 
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