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NYT: How Cities Lost Control of Police Discpline

Fenixgoon

Fenixgoon

Lifer
www.nytimes.com

How Cities Lost Control of Police Discipline (Published 2020)

In the chaos of 1960s Detroit, a fledgling police union laid the groundwork for a system that, to this day, constrains discipline for officers accused of misconduct.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Shocking and damning. Police unions began in the 1960's and, over time, won more and more ability to protect officers from being disciplined. As the saying goes "a bad apple spoils the bunch" - and if you can't fire the bad apple....well, don't be surprised at what follows.

We need an overhaul of policing in this country. Desperately. Now.
 
Fenixgoon said:
www.nytimes.com

How Cities Lost Control of Police Discipline (Published 2020)

In the chaos of 1960s Detroit, a fledgling police union laid the groundwork for a system that, to this day, constrains discipline for officers accused of misconduct.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Shocking and damning. Police unions began in the 1960's and, over time, won more and more ability to protect officers from being disciplined. As the saying goes "a bad apple spoils the bunch" - and if you can't fire the bad apple....well, don't be surprised at what follows.

We need an overhaul of policing in this country. Desperately. Now.
Click to expand...
They can start by giving extensive psychological exams so we're hiring less psychopaths and right-wing authoritarians.
 
Seems pretty straightforward. Give someone a job with little to no accountability for wrongdoing, and the lawful authority to use violence against the public... what could possibly go wrong?
The real problem here though is decades of propaganda that has led a sizable portion of the public to believe falsely that police accountability means increased crime.
 
nickqt said:
They can start by giving extensive psychological exams so we're hiring less psychopaths and right-wing authoritarians.
Click to expand...

The people who can do this LIKE the way things are. That's why things are this way. If we made them administer these exams, they would simply treat failure of such a test as a prerequisite to become a cop. It would merely reinforce that they are hiring the type of person that they want.
 
Pipeline 1010 said:
The people who can do this LIKE the way things are. That's why things are this way. If we made them administer these exams, they would simply treat failure of such a test as a prerequisite to become a cop. It would merely reinforce that they are hiring the type of person that they want.
Click to expand...
Non-right-wing authoritarians need to take over local city and state government so they can change the policies. Republicans have played the long game for decades and here we are.
 
K1052 said:
Generally fairly pro union but if state legislatures want to squash police unions they should go for it. They are totally reprehensible orgs at this point.
Click to expand...

Ironic that at the time the police started forming unions they were in the union-busting business. Their own union was the one union the police were not mobilised against.
 
shortylickens said:
I cannot read any more NYT articles this month.

But I'm sure its good stuff.
Click to expand...

Same here. Hence I don't know if the following paper was already mentioned in the article.


papers.ssrn.com

Collective Bargaining Rights and Police Misconduct: Evidence from Florida

We provide quasi-experimental evidence on the effects of law enforcement collective bargaining rights on violent incidents of misconduct. Our empirical strategy
papers.ssrn.com

Edit - article based on the above paper

thecrimereport.org

Findings Imply Violent Misconduct Rose After Florida Sheriff’s Deputies Joined Union: Study - The Crime Report

According to three University of Chicago researchers who conducted a study on the impact of a 2003 court ruling that granted collective bargaining rights to sheriff’s offices in the state, one possible explanation was that unions provided procedural protections that allowed officers to believe...
thecrimereport.org thecrimereport.org
 
Without reading OP I was thinking "This is about police unions, right? The only unions that conservatives think are perfect?"

Anyway, lots of good, very similar articles on these terrorist organizations (they call themselves police unions) have been published this year.

I like this one, as it focuses on the history of one small town and how it basically conceded full legislative power to the police, that have, in response, spent the last couple of decades absolutely terrorizing their citizens under what is full immunity (that they have voted for themselves!). Cool stuff!

www.newyorker.com

How a Deadly Police Force Ruled a City

After years of impunity, the police in Vallejo, California, took over the city’s politics and threatened its people.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
 
  • Wow
Reactions: pmv
Vic said:
The real problem here though is decades of propaganda that has led a sizable portion of the public to believe falsely that police accountability means increased crime.
Click to expand...

The cops have actually made this real since many departments engage in work slowdowns whenever they get bad press or rapped on the knuckles verbally by the pols for excessive force. They stop doing their jobs if criticized in the slightest.
 
Or, why I sympathize with the whole "ACAB" battle cry, even if I don't think every cop is a bastard.

A given officer might not abuse their power, but they may tolerate those abuses, and operate in a system that actively shields abusive officers from accountability. It's hard to say you're one of the "good ones" if you stand idle while your union runs cover for a cop who murdered someone in cold blood.
 
nickqt said:
Non-right-wing authoritarians need to take over local city and state government so they can change the policies. Republicans have played the long game for decades and here we are.
Click to expand...

That would be a great solution if it worked. There are plenty of fully left wing controlled local governments. As in almost every big city in america. The problem is just as bad there as anywhere else. Perhaps the left is more authoritarian than you'd like to believe. I don't think you are going to find your solution in a political party.
 
Pipeline 1010 said:
That would be a great solution if it worked. There are plenty of fully left wing controlled local governments. As in almost every big city in america. The problem is just as bad there as anywhere else. Perhaps the left is more authoritarian than you'd like to believe. I don't think you are going to find your solution in a political party.
Click to expand...
There are no FULLY LEFT WING CONTROLLED GOVERNMENTS anywhere in America. It just seems like that because they can be loud and obnoxious. Even in the liberals paradise of San Francisco, they dont have absolute control.
 
nickqt said:
Non-right-wing authoritarians need to take over local city and state government so they can change the policies. Republicans have played the long game for decades and here we are.
Click to expand...

Minneapolis, a city of right winged authoritarians which lit the spark and why we are talking about this. Come on...most of the big cities in this country are run by Democrats. This issue transcends party.


There isnt accountability in the system. DA's need cops to prosecute. They send a cop to jail the cops stop helping them. Unions erect giant hurdles to hold cops accountable. Who has the political will to fight the union? Not many because the unions fund local politicians. The ones that dont play the game will see cops not showing upto work, increased sick leave ect ect. When a crime wave happens the politician is slammed for not supporting the cops. Then there is internal affairs, my favorite. Cops investigating cops. Like they said in the departed "With you investigating yourself, I put my money on you not finding anything'.

Needs to be a separate agency outside cops reach to investigate cops. There needs to be a union busting job and tear down of the ridiculous process to fire a cop. And there needs to be a repeal of the war on drugs which has been the catalyst for cops to increase their out of control reach and behavior with impunity.
 
Pipeline 1010 said:
That would be a great solution if it worked. There are plenty of fully left wing controlled local governments. As in almost every big city in america. The problem is just as bad there as anywhere else. Perhaps the left is more authoritarian than you'd like to believe. I don't think you are going to find your solution in a political party.
Click to expand...

Cities are run by real estate developers and the chamber of commerce. Politicians don't control cities, at best they attempt to make cities slightly more liveable, at worst they provide cover for the developers, as is evidenced by your post.
 
Genx87 said:
...
Needs to be a separate agency outside cops reach to investigate cops. There needs to be a union busting job and tear down of the ridiculous process to fire a cop. And there needs to be a repeal of the war on drugs which has been the catalyst for cops to increase their out of control reach and behavior with impunity.
Click to expand...

After Seattle was busted by the Courts and the US Department of Justice for widespread racial abuse about 7 years ago, the court mandated a separate accountability board to monitor the city compliance with the court order. During the past year, with civil unrest and more police misconduct, that board did jack squat...think they released one very nuanced press release.

Unfortunately the separate agencies tend to be more like "blue-ribbon panels/advisory boards" which takes the politicians and police department off the hook..."SEE, WE SET UP A PANEL". I think the better answer for bad policing is prosecuting officers, stripping liability protection, firing upper management, and re-directing funds to other public agencies as much as possible...agencies that are better equipped to deal with homelessness, drug addiction, etc.
 
Gardener said:
After Seattle was busted by the Courts and the US Department of Justice for widespread racial abuse about 7 years ago, the court mandated a separate accountability board to monitor the city compliance with the court order. During the past year, with civil unrest and more police misconduct, that board did jack squat...think they released one very nuanced press release.

Unfortunately the separate agencies tend to be more like "blue-ribbon panels/advisory boards" which takes the politicians and police department off the hook..."SEE, WE SET UP A PANEL". I think the better answer for bad policing is prosecuting officers, stripping liability protection, firing upper management, and re-directing funds to other public agencies as much as possible...agencies that are better equipped to deal with homelessness, drug addiction, etc.
Click to expand...
Barr stop enforcing any of the court mandated compliance. It's that simple.
 
Having given this due thought and recognizing the hopelessness of the situation, I would suggest that the best answer to this problem is to hire only enlightened cops. Such a police force will be filled both with a sense of compassion and a dedication to the need to protect. In this way the application of police authority will automatically balance our as just. Do anything else and there will need to be compromised fixes.
 
Moonbeam said:
Having given this due thought and recognizing the hopelessness of the situation, I would suggest that the best answer to this problem is to hire only enlightened cops. Such a police force will be filled both with a sense of compassion and a dedication to the need to protect. In this way the application of police authority will automatically balance our as just. Do anything else and there will need to be compromised fixes.
Click to expand...

sadly, intelligence is not a protected class and you can be deemed "too smart" to be a police officer
 
I have had kids shot and killed in two school districts one in Delaware the other outside of Chicago both times the kids said you have to sell for the Man or you get in trouble, they were 8th graders.
 
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