NYPD being ordered to write more summons or else

[Darwin333]

Apologies for yet another NYPD thread but I thought this deserved its own.

I knew this would eventually happen. The article is pretty clear, this isn't about keeping the peace it's about getting them back to writing tickets and summons for petty bullshit that has nothing to do with public peace.

I would love to see the violent crime statistics since they stopped fucking with, and sometimes killing, people over selling a single cigarette that they own to an adult who can legally own it.

It’s a slowdown showdown.

At precincts across the city, top brass are cracking the whip on summons activity and even barring many cops from taking vacation and sick days, The Post has learned.

Throughout the city, precincts are being ordered to hand up to borough commanders “activity sheets” indicating the number of arrests and summonses per shift, sources told The Post.
“Police officers around the city are now threatened with transfers, no vacation time and sick time unless they write summonses,” one union source said.

“This is the same practice that caused officers to be labeled racist and abusers of power.”
In at least one precinct, the brass backlash — which comes in the wake of Police Commissioner Bill Bratton ordering cops back on the job after The Post reported a 90 percent drop in ticket writing — is downright *draconian.
“Everyone here is under orders — no time off” during the summons catch-up blitz, said one cop at the 105th Precinct in Queens.

“And the majority of [new] summonses written aren’t protecting the public in any way.

“But now they’re realizing how much revenue the city is losing and they’re enforcing their will upon us,” he said.

Bratton’s back-to-work edict was still ringing in commanding officers’ ears when the crackdown hit cops on the Thursday/Friday overnight shift at the 105th bordering Nassau County, the officer said. The lieutenant ordered sector cars from throughout the precinct to converge at Springfield Boulevard and Jamaica Avenue for a driver checkpoint, the officer said.

No one was to return to the precinct or even take a meal break until two summonses were logged, the officer said.

“To have all the manpower utilized for the sole purpose of writing summonses is a very dangerous way to utilize manpower,” he said. “This is not what we’re out here for.”

Back at the station house, memos (above) were posted alerting cops that no new days off would be approved beyond already approved vacation days. And there were to be no sick days without a doctor’s note.

When even the cops are saying enough is enough with the harassment of non-violent everyday people you know something is seriously wrong. Maybe this "work slowdown" finally opened their eyes to the fact that the majority of what they are told to do is not for the protection of the public. I still hold them accountable for doing it in the first place but credit where credit is due.

To those that say it isn't about the revenue, how can you justify "no break or even lunch until you write two summons"? They didn't say go arrest violent criminals or find felonies, or anything that has to do with keeping the peace and even the cops are saying that now.

http://nypost.com/2015/01/11/no-time-off-for-nypd-until-cops-get-back-to-work/

 

[theeedude]

Apologists, you still think there aren't systemic problems at the NYPD?

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Wow, no returning to precinct or meal breaks until 2 summonses are issued. That sounds suspiciously like a quota.

 

[Rakehellion]

To those that say it isn't about the revenue, how can you justify "no break or even lunch until you write two summons"? They didn't say go arrest violent criminals or find felonies, or anything that has to do with keeping the peace and even the cops are saying that now.

That sounds like stop-and-frisk.

All in all, cops are passive-aggressive assholes but I don't think this is the way to handle it. Just fire them all.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That sounds like stop-and-frisk.

All in all, cops are passive-aggressive assholes but I don't think this is the way to handle it. Just fire them all.

Perhaps you are right. End the police force in NYC.

 

[fskimospy]

Apologies for yet another NYPD thread but I thought this deserved its own.

I knew this would eventually happen. The article is pretty clear, this isn't about keeping the peace it's about getting them back to writing tickets and summons for petty bullshit that has nothing to do with public peace.

I would love to see the violent crime statistics since they stopped fucking with, and sometimes killing, people over selling a single cigarette that they own to an adult who can legally own it.




When even the cops are saying enough is enough with the harassment of non-violent everyday people you know something is seriously wrong. Maybe this "work slowdown" finally opened their eyes to the fact that the majority of what they are told to do is not for the protection of the public. I still hold them accountable for doing it in the first place but credit where credit is due.

To those that say it isn't about the revenue, how can you justify "no break or even lunch until you write two summons"? They didn't say go arrest violent criminals or find felonies, or anything that has to do with keeping the peace and even the cops are saying that now.

http://nypost.com/2015/01/11/no-time-off-for-nypd-until-cops-get-back-to-work/

I think the city should have just started firing people. Insubordination isn't acceptable for any police force; the mayor is their boss.

That being said, and not happening, a few things:

First, this article is from the NY Post. Go look at their coverage of this police business and you will see they are RABIDLY anti DeBlasio. (or really anything else. The Post is a far right tabloid)

Secondly, this is a story based purely on input from the police, which relates to point #1 I guess. Considering the actions of the police in this they are hardly a source that should be taken at their word.

Basically, if accurate, this comes down to forcing police to do their jobs. If you believe the number of summonses written a year ago at this time is reasonably accurate given city hall policies that haven't substantially changed, a reduction of 90% or 95% system wide is an obvious indication of people deliberately deciding not to do their job while collecting a paycheck.

That is, in effect, a theft of taxpayer dollars. So what do you do? You make it painful for them to not do their jobs and steal our money.

If you want to argue that these police procedures shouldn't be in place to begin with I would 100% agree. That's not for the patrolmen to decide though. By the way, a plus side of that would be that if we did end that kind of policing we could probably seriously cut the size of the NYPD. (it is about 4x the size of the LAPD for a city only twice the size.)

The policy sucks, but that's what the political process is for. The NYPD was not doing this because of a concern for the wellbeing of New Yorkers, they were doing it to attack their boss. That's unacceptable.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

If you believe the number of summonses written a year ago at this time is reasonably accurate given city hall policies that haven't substantially changed, a reduction of 90% or 95% system wide is an obvious indication of people deliberately deciding not to do their job while collecting a paycheck.

That is, in effect, a theft of taxpayer dollars.

Heh...they are stealing taxpayer dollars by not stealing taxpayer dollars.

 

[fskimospy]

Heh...they are stealing taxpayer dollars by not stealing taxpayer dollars.

Summonses are not theft. That's like saying taxes are theft.

Again, if you don't like the policy, change it. Don't support the random patrolman making up their own rules. You will regret it.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Summonses are not theft. That's like saying taxes are theft.

Again, if you don't like the policy, change it. Don't support the random patrolman making up their own rules. You will regret it.

Please don't interpret my point to be I think patrolmen should make up their own rules. Although they do this plenty. We are in agreement that policy needs to be changed.

However I'm not sure what to call taking money from people under threat of violence strictly for revenue generation, if not stealing. It may be codified, but it is no less taking money from people so that you can spend it.

 

[xgsound]

Wow, no returning to precinct or meal breaks until 2 summonses are issued. That sounds suspiciously like a quota.

I say that quota is a quota.

Jim

 

[MongGrel]

These were the guys at war with the mayor and not wanting him and to come to funerals etc wasn't it?

Seems a bit of a power struggle there.

 

[homebrew2ny]

I think the city should have just started firing people. Insubordination isn't acceptable for any police force; the mayor is their boss.

That being said, and not happening, a few things:

First, this article is from the NY Post. Go look at their coverage of this police business and you will see they are RABIDLY anti DeBlasio. (or really anything else. The Post is a far right tabloid)

Secondly, this is a story based purely on input from the police, which relates to point #1 I guess. Considering the actions of the police in this they are hardly a source that should be taken at their word.

Basically, if accurate, this comes down to forcing police to do their jobs. If you believe the number of summonses written a year ago at this time is reasonably accurate given city hall policies that haven't substantially changed, a reduction of 90% or 95% system wide is an obvious indication of people deliberately deciding not to do their job while collecting a paycheck.

That is, in effect, a theft of taxpayer dollars. So what do you do? You make it painful for them to not do their jobs and steal our money.

If you want to argue that these police procedures shouldn't be in place to begin with I would 100% agree. That's not for the patrolmen to decide though. By the way, a plus side of that would be that if we did end that kind of policing we could probably seriously cut the size of the NYPD. (it is about 4x the size of the LAPD for a city only twice the size.)

The policy sucks, but that's what the political process is for. The NYPD was not doing this because of a concern for the wellbeing of New Yorkers, they were doing it to attack their boss. That's unacceptable.

You make some very valid points, however some would say that this years reduction of 90 percent or so reflects a less quota based, and more reasonable approach to policing NYC. To assume that such a drastic reduction has to mean cops not doing their jobs is not the correct assumption in my humble opinion. Perhaps cops are no longer willing to harvest the city population to fit a financial budget as in prior years. Anyone who knows or is related to a officer of the law knows that quotas are part of the game. And that is the real crux of the problem. On one hand it is a viable metric to gage current activity, but on the other hand it is a powerful motive to harvest the population with less than honorable intentions. I have no real solutions but can recognize a problem when I see it.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Police officers don't write the laws in NYC they enforce the laws they have been told to enforce. So the bigger issue being raised here is how NYC is so dependent on police officers being tax collectors (that is what they are doing when you reduce this issue down to its essence) that they are often put into conflict with the communities they serve.

I.e., the Eric Garner case only came to be as a by-product of cops being commanded to be tax collectors/enforcers in regards to New York's full on retarded tax on cigarettes which has created a very profitable black market for singles. Yet I'm sure the statist will have a full on conniption with this very obvious truth.

 

[Darwin333]

That sounds like stop-and-frisk.

All in all, cops are passive-aggressive assholes but I don't think this is the way to handle it. Just fire them all.

I disagree. We as a society have moved beyond allowing the excuse for "Why did you fuck over innocent people" because "I was ordered to".

I'm not comparing what the NYPD was doing to the Holocaust but the analogy is the same for the Germans that killed a fuckload of Jews because Hitler ordered them to. A decent and moral person would have refused the order and I believe the same to hold true for our police. A decent and moral police officer should refuse any order to harass peaceful people for the sole purpose of revenue generation or quotas.

As far as I can see, the NYPD are doing the job that they were intended to do, being peace officers. Peace officers will gain the respect and cooperation of the people because they are simply keeping the peace and not looking for any reason they can (or can't) find to fuck with you.

 

[Darwin333]

I think the city should have just started firing people. Insubordination isn't acceptable for any police force; the mayor is their boss.

That being said, and not happening, a few things:

First, this article is from the NY Post. Go look at their coverage of this police business and you will see they are RABIDLY anti DeBlasio. (or really anything else. The Post is a far right tabloid)

Secondly, this is a story based purely on input from the police, which relates to point #1 I guess. Considering the actions of the police in this they are hardly a source that should be taken at their word.

Basically, if accurate, this comes down to forcing police to do their jobs. If you believe the number of summonses written a year ago at this time is reasonably accurate given city hall policies that haven't substantially changed, a reduction of 90% or 95% system wide is an obvious indication of people deliberately deciding not to do their job while collecting a paycheck.

That is, in effect, a theft of taxpayer dollars. So what do you do? You make it painful for them to not do their jobs and steal our money.

If you want to argue that these police procedures shouldn't be in place to begin with I would 100% agree. That's not for the patrolmen to decide though. By the way, a plus side of that would be that if we did end that kind of policing we could probably seriously cut the size of the NYPD. (it is about 4x the size of the LAPD for a city only twice the size.)

The policy sucks, but that's what the political process is for. The NYPD was not doing this because of a concern for the wellbeing of New Yorkers, they were doing it to attack their boss. That's unacceptable.

While it's hard to argue some of your points, in this case I believe the ends justify the means.

 

[werepossum]

Police officers don't write the laws in NYC they enforce the laws they have been told to enforce. So the bigger issue being raised here is how NYC is so dependent on police officers being tax collectors (that is what they are doing when you reduce this issue down to its essence) that they are often put into conflict with the communities they serve.

I.e., the Eric Garner case only came to be as a by-product of cops being commanded to be tax collectors/enforcers in regards to New York's full on retarded tax on cigarettes which has created a very profitable black market for singles. Yet I'm sure the statist will have a full on conniption with this very obvious truth.

This, and well said.

 

[Zorkorist]

Bullshit. Cops are law enforcers, as law is meant to be enforced. They see a problem, they are authorized and paid for by the state to address that problem.

They couldn't care less if a dude is selling cigarettes illegally in front of a 7-11 in downtown New York.

If they think that guy just car-jacked a car... they might act differently.

-John

 

[PokerGuy]

I find this whole mess to be very amusing and interesting to watch from afar. Racist idiot mayor turns on cops, cops turn on him and are protected by the public sector union that libs -- like the idiot mayor -- love so much.

It's obvious the city views it's officers more as money collectors than LEO's. At the same time, the officers can't be allowed to decide when / if they will enforce the law, they should enforce the laws, that's their job. The laws there are written mostly by idiots, so for the citizens it's actually better to not have most of the laws enforced. What a bizarre situation.

 

[Darwin333]

I find this whole mess to be very amusing and interesting to watch from afar. Racist idiot mayor turns on cops, cops turn on him and are protected by the public sector union that libs -- like the idiot mayor -- love so much.

It's obvious the city views it's officers more as money collectors than LEO's. At the same time, the officers can't be allowed to decide when / if they will enforce the law, they should enforce the laws, that's their job. The laws there are written mostly by idiots, so for the citizens it's actually better to not have most of the laws enforced. What a bizarre situation.

Yes and the best possible way to show that those laws are idiotic and purely for revenue collection is for exactly this scenario to play out. When hellfire doesn't rain from above due to their lack of enforcing certain bullshit laws hopefully it will show everyone how bullshit they are.

 

[werepossum]

Yes and the best possible way to show that those laws are idiotic and purely for revenue collection is for exactly this scenario to play out. When hellfire doesn't rain from above due to their lack of enforcing certain bullshit laws hopefully it will show everyone how bullshit they are.

Government is collecting a LOT less revenue in NYC right now. For NYC politicians, this IS Hellfire raining down. They'd rather see a 25% increase in muggings than a 25% decrease in cop-generated revenue.

Now we have a clear choice as voters as to which we'd prefer, a predatory police presence enforcing a plethora of minor but revenue-generating laws or a protective police presence enforcing a smaller and much less lucrative set of more important laws. Starting with NYC anyway.

 

[fskimospy]

Government is collecting a LOT less revenue in NYC right now. For NYC politicians, this IS Hellfire raining down. They'd rather see a 25% increase in muggings than a 25% decrease in cop-generated revenue.

Now we have a clear choice as voters as to which we'd prefer, a predatory police presence enforcing a plethora of minor but revenue-generating laws or a protective police presence enforcing a smaller and much less lucrative set of more important laws. Starting with NYC anyway.

The 'slowdown' has cost NYC approximately $5 million out of a yearly budget of $69 billion. That means approximately 0.007% of its budget.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/15/n...ity-an-estimated-5-million-in-lost-fines.html

Hellfire, indeed. haha.

 

[Kadarin]

If crime stats are not increasing, then the correct answer is to get rid of the excess police the city doesn't need.

Will never happen.

 

[glenn1]

If crime stats are not increasing, then the correct answer is to get rid of the excess police laws the city doesn't need.

Will never happen.

FTFY. You were so close, yet so far.

 

[momeNt]

Reminds me of "The Wire".

It's about numbers and drugs on the table.

 

[momeNt]

The 'slowdown' has cost NYC approximately $5 million out of a yearly budget of $69 billion. That means approximately 0.007% of its budget.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/15/n...ity-an-estimated-5-million-in-lost-fines.html

Hellfire, indeed. haha.

What would you do as mayor with an extra $5mil? Putting it in terms of percentages is exactly how the government got so large in the first place.