NYC Handgun Registration on the chopping block

[Nebor]

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/...-on-case-of-hot/83043/

It's about time NYC's laws were given a good hard look. The application process for registering or buying a handgun in NYC are ridiculous, and meant to keep people from owning handguns at all. It's an expensive, political and time consuming process. Good riddance.

 

[JD50]

:thumbsup:

 

[NeoV]

yet violent crime in NYC has come way down....oh the discrepancies......

this guy had a gun without a permit for it - plain and simple, it's not complicated.

Explain please how the laws in NYC are ridiculous, and I'll show you a ridiculous, blind-sided example of crying about gun laws.

you can buy guns in NYC - you just have to have a few working brain cells.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: NeoV
yet violent crime in NYC has come way down....oh the discrepancies......

this guy had a gun without a permit for it - plain and simple, it's not complicated.

Explain please how the laws in NYC are ridiculous, and I'll show you a ridiculous, blind-sided example of crying about gun laws.

you can buy guns in NYC - you just have to have a few working brain cells.

Do you live in New York?

It's even worse in New Jersey. You have to register each and every bullet you purchase.

 

[Shortass]

Originally posted by: Nebor
http://www.nysun.com/new-york/...-on-case-of-hot/83043/

It's about time NYC's laws were given a good hard look. The application process for registering or buying a handgun in NYC are ridiculous, and meant to keep people from owning handguns at all. It's an expensive, political and time consuming process. Good riddance.

And yet when briefly reading the article it seems that PLENTY of people have found ways to illegally purchase firearms, so it seems these 'ridiculous laws meant to keep people from owning handguns at all' aren't really holding up.

I'm all for defending yourself in your home, but the fact that people are using the 2nd amendment to bypass laws in place to keep us safe is kind of silly. Now I need a bigger gun to protect myself from people who illegally have a gun to protect themselves from whatever monster around the corner they feel is real enough to warrant brandishing a revolver. Go go arms race!

 

[Shortass]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: NeoV
yet violent crime in NYC has come way down....oh the discrepancies......

this guy had a gun without a permit for it - plain and simple, it's not complicated.

Explain please how the laws in NYC are ridiculous, and I'll show you a ridiculous, blind-sided example of crying about gun laws.

you can buy guns in NYC - you just have to have a few working brain cells.

Do you live in New York?

It's even worse in New Jersey. You have to register each and every bullet you purchase.

That's pretty excessive, but honestly, how many bullets are you going to be registering? Unless you're fighting an endless wave of zombies I can't imagine it being a constant registering process, and if you were, I'm sure they would either ignore the law or they would already be a zombie themselves, in which you can simply loot whatever ammunition you can find.

 

[NaughtyGeek]

Everyone who's going to come in here and defend the laws, please be so kind as to show the statistics stating that the majority of gun crimes in these so called "hot spots" are committed with a legally obtained weapon. Everyone always misses the fact that gun crimes are committed by criminals and laws are only going to affect people who follow the law.

Offenders

*

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
o a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
o a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
o family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

A dated source to be sure, but you get the point. Making it increasingly difficult for law abiding citizens to obtain guns in not the answer.

Source

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: NeoV
yet violent crime in NYC has come way down....oh the discrepancies......

this guy had a gun without a permit for it - plain and simple, it's not complicated.

Explain please how the laws in NYC are ridiculous, and I'll show you a ridiculous, blind-sided example of crying about gun laws.

you can buy guns in NYC - you just have to have a few working brain cells.

Sure, if you wait half a year, spend a thousand or more dollars, and if they feel like giving you one after you do all that (which they don't have to, and usually don't).

Crime has also decreased in other places, without draconian gun laws. Were any other crime control techniques implemented other than gun control? Where is your supporting evidence and research showing that gun control was effective? Because the National Academy of Sciences would love to have that, since with all the money and brilliance in the known world they have been unable to show ANY positive effect of gun control.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shortass

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: NeoV
yet violent crime in NYC has come way down....oh the discrepancies......

this guy had a gun without a permit for it - plain and simple, it's not complicated.

Explain please how the laws in NYC are ridiculous, and I'll show you a ridiculous, blind-sided example of crying about gun laws.

you can buy guns in NYC - you just have to have a few working brain cells.

Do you live in New York?

It's even worse in New Jersey. You have to register each and every bullet you purchase.

That's pretty excessive, but honestly, how many bullets are you going to be registering?

Unless you're fighting an endless wave of zombies I can't imagine it being a constant registering process

, and if you were, I'm sure they would either ignore the law or they would already be a zombie themselves, in which you can simply loot whatever ammunition you can find.

You have to register your ammo every time you make an ammo purchase.

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: Shortass

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: NeoV
yet violent crime in NYC has come way down....oh the discrepancies......

this guy had a gun without a permit for it - plain and simple, it's not complicated.

Explain please how the laws in NYC are ridiculous, and I'll show you a ridiculous, blind-sided example of crying about gun laws.

you can buy guns in NYC - you just have to have a few working brain cells.

Do you live in New York?

It's even worse in New Jersey. You have to register each and every bullet you purchase.

That's pretty excessive, but honestly, how many bullets are you going to be registering? Unless you're fighting an endless wave of zombies I can't imagine it being a constant registering process, and if you were, I'm sure they would either ignore the law or they would already be a zombie themselves, in which you can simply loot whatever ammunition you can find.

Ever heard of taking your gun to the range to practice shooting the weapon so I dunno...maybe you can defend yourself or your family if or when the time comes? I put about 200 through my gun everytime I go.

 

[Shortass]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shortass

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: NeoV
yet violent crime in NYC has come way down....oh the discrepancies......

this guy had a gun without a permit for it - plain and simple, it's not complicated.

Explain please how the laws in NYC are ridiculous, and I'll show you a ridiculous, blind-sided example of crying about gun laws.

you can buy guns in NYC - you just have to have a few working brain cells.

Do you live in New York?

It's even worse in New Jersey. You have to register each and every bullet you purchase.

That's pretty excessive, but honestly, how many bullets are you going to be registering?

Unless you're fighting an endless wave of zombies I can't imagine it being a constant registering process

, and if you were, I'm sure they would either ignore the law or they would already be a zombie themselves, in which you can simply loot whatever ammunition you can find.

You have to register your ammo every time you make an ammo purchase.

You seem to miss the point that I was trying to make; unless you're constantly shooting at stuff and needing a constant supply of new ammo you wouldn't be forced to register so much ammo. I recognize the annoying and I do think it's a bit extreme, but for the majority of folks owning guns I imagine it wouldn't be a real issue.

Originally posted by: FallenHero
Ever heard of taking your gun to the range to practice shooting the weapon so I dunno...maybe you can defend yourself or your family if or when the time comes? I put about 200 through my gun everytime I go.

Just play counter strike, every time you kill someone it gives you money to buy bullets and every round change you get filled up. The registering process is rather painless and really consists merely of hitting a combination of B and some numbers.

But seriously, by registering every bullet I'm almost certain it's simply filling out a form for x amount of bullets, so stock up 1000 or whatever you feel is adequate and only have to buy bullets every 5 times you go to the shooting range. All I'm saying is that there is a legal process in which law abiding citizens can purchase firearms and ammunition. Making it tougher for unestablished criminals to purchase weapons and ammo seems like a good thing to me, even if it's a bit annoying for those who use them for defense or as a hobby.

 

[Fern]

Good idea, bad idea, statistics shmatistics.

All irrelevant, it's about a Constitutional right; not anyone's belief in whether it's a good idea or not.

Fern

 

[daishi5]

Actually I think the biggest problem with their registration system is that its is very discretionary. The police get to make the decision, and do not have to follow many rules when making the decision. What has happened is that normal citizens have a very hard time getting the permits, but if you are famous or rich, you almost always get the permit. I do not mind a city trying to find a way to help the crime rate, but the fact is that the system treats the non-rich and non-famous citizens as if they are not as worthy of owning a weapon as the rich and famous are.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Fern
Good idea, bad idea, statistics shmatistics.

All irrelevant, it's about a Constitutional right; not anyone's belief in whether it's a good idea or not.

Fern

/thread

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shortass
That's pretty excessive, but honestly, how many bullets are you going to be registering?

Unless you're fighting an endless wave of zombies I can't imagine it being a constant registering process

, and if you were, I'm sure they would either ignore the law or they would already be a zombie themselves, in which you can simply loot whatever ammunition you can find.

You have to register your ammo every time you make an ammo purchase.

Since I live in NJ and own guns, here is the quick version:

- NJ Firearms ID required to purchase rifles & shotguns (no gun limit, ID never expires)
- Firearms ID card + Pistol permit required for each pistol you purchase (max of 4 at a time, permits expire 60 days after issue with 2 extensions allowed).
- Rifle ammo: 17 or older. Can buy in Dicks sporting goods if you want.
- Pistol ammo & reloading supplies like primers & gunpowder: Firearms ID card OR drivers license required. Seller must log D/L # or Firearms ID card # and what you bought.
- All private sales of firearms must go through FFL transfer (as with most/all states). Transfer fee + NICS check typically runs ~ $25 + $15 = $40. NICS check is required for all purchases, even at a gun store.
- No civilian AR-15s or tazers allowed. Not sure about .50 cal rifles (like the Barrett).

Aside from the pistol permit process which is a semi-hassle (takes about 60 days for background check), these laws haven't changed much in the 25+ years I've been shooting.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: daishi5
Actually I think the biggest problem with their registration system is that its is very discretionary. The police get to make the decision, and do not have to follow many rules when making the decision. What has happened is that normal citizens have a very hard time getting the permits, but if you are famous or rich, you almost always get the permit. I do not mind a city trying to find a way to help the crime rate, but the fact is that the system treats the non-rich and non-famous citizens as if they are not as worthy of owning a weapon as the rich and famous are.

If it's the cops just randomly making decisions then there should be a standard in place which treats everyone equally. I agree celeb's/rich folks can get guns and CCW licenses with ease compared to the average guy. This is true in most major cities. Someone should tell these fat donut eating cops that they should fix their system and treat people equally.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Shortass

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shortass

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: NeoV
yet violent crime in NYC has come way down....oh the discrepancies......

this guy had a gun without a permit for it - plain and simple, it's not complicated.

Explain please how the laws in NYC are ridiculous, and I'll show you a ridiculous, blind-sided example of crying about gun laws.

you can buy guns in NYC - you just have to have a few working brain cells.

Do you live in New York?

It's even worse in New Jersey. You have to register each and every bullet you purchase.

That's pretty excessive, but honestly, how many bullets are you going to be registering?

Unless you're fighting an endless wave of zombies I can't imagine it being a constant registering process

, and if you were, I'm sure they would either ignore the law or they would already be a zombie themselves, in which you can simply loot whatever ammunition you can find.

You have to register your ammo every time you make an ammo purchase.

You seem to miss the point that I was trying to make; unless you're constantly shooting at stuff and needing a constant supply of new ammo you wouldn't be forced to register so much ammo. I recognize the annoying and I do think it's a bit extreme, but for the majority of folks owning guns I imagine it wouldn't be a real issue.

Originally posted by: FallenHero
Ever heard of taking your gun to the range to practice shooting the weapon so I dunno...maybe you can defend yourself or your family if or when the time comes? I put about 200 through my gun everytime I go.

Just play counter strike, every time you kill someone it gives you money to buy bullets and every round change you get filled up. The registering process is rather painless and really consists merely of hitting a combination of B and some numbers.

But seriously, by registering every bullet I'm almost certain it's simply filling out a form for x amount of bullets, so stock up 1000 or whatever you feel is adequate and only have to buy bullets every 5 times you go to the shooting range. All I'm saying is that there is a legal process in which law abiding citizens can purchase firearms and ammunition. Making it tougher for unestablished criminals to purchase weapons and ammo seems like a good thing to me, even if it's a bit annoying for those who use them for defense or as a hobby.

First of all, it's not a hassle each time you purchase ammo - they simply log the sale.

Most responsible gun owners (well, at least every gun owner I know) practice shooting from time to time. Heck, last fall I went to go out squirrel hunting - almost all of my .22 ammo was missing - over 1000 rounds. I was amazed that my kids went through that much while target shooting; no wonder they're both better shots than me. They ask, I just let them take a box out behind the house and enjoy shooting.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: daishi5
Actually I think the biggest problem with their registration system is that its is very discretionary. The police get to make the decision, and do not have to follow many rules when making the decision. What has happened is that normal citizens have a very hard time getting the permits, but if you are famous or rich, you almost always get the permit. I do not mind a city trying to find a way to help the crime rate, but the fact is that the system treats the non-rich and non-famous citizens as if they are not as worthy of owning a weapon as the rich and famous are.

If it's the cops just randomly making decisions then there should be a standard in place which treats everyone equally. I agree celeb's/rich folks can get guns and CCW licenses with ease compared to the average guy. This is true in most major cities. Someone should tell these fat donut eating cops that they should fix their system and treat people equally.

Really NYC, Chicago and a couple of California cities are the only ones favoring the rich and famous. Pretty much all the other states have shall issue policies so that everyone is treated equally.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Shortass

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: NeoV
yet violent crime in NYC has come way down....oh the discrepancies......

this guy had a gun without a permit for it - plain and simple, it's not complicated.

Explain please how the laws in NYC are ridiculous, and I'll show you a ridiculous, blind-sided example of crying about gun laws.

you can buy guns in NYC - you just have to have a few working brain cells.

Do you live in New York?

It's even worse in New Jersey. You have to register each and every bullet you purchase.

That's pretty excessive, but honestly, how many bullets are you going to be registering? Unless you're fighting an endless wave of zombies I can't imagine it being a constant registering process, and if you were, I'm sure they would either ignore the law or they would already be a zombie themselves, in which you can simply loot whatever ammunition you can find.

If you go to the range every week, you're going to be using at least 100 rounds per week. Probably closer to 200 if you're intent on staying in practice. So, figure on registering about 5,000 rounds per year for 100% legal use.

That said, there is no ammunition serialization in NJ. Dave is wrong. You may need to present ID to buy ammunition and you may have the transaction recorded, but the individual cartridges/bullets are not serialized and are not specifically tagged to the purchaser at this time.

ZV

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: brencat

- All private sales of firearms must go through FFL transfer (as with most/all states). Transfer fee + NICS check typically runs ~ $25 + $15 = $40. NICS check is required for all purchases, even at a gun store.
- No civilian AR-15s or tazers allowed. Not sure about .50 cal rifles (like the Barrett).

1st, private sales in most states do not require a FFL transfer if the sale is face to face. If you're paying for a NICS check you are being robbed. It is a service offered by the BATF for free. The state is "taxing" you on this.

Why on Earth the AR-15 or "AK47" have been singled out as illegal is beyond me. How are they any more deadly than a Remington 700 in .300 winmag??? I'll take my chances with being shot by a 5.56 round where I have a chance of surviving. If I get shot anywhere center mass with a .300 winmag I'm dead. If i get hit in an appendage, it's most likely going to come off or be rendered useless and need to be amputated.

The idea of banning guns because they are scary is asinine.