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NY State *passes* most restrictive weapons ban ever after being rushed to a vote.

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LTC8K6 said:
There's nothing magic about how a tube fed rifle or shotgun works and how you reload the magazine.

Nor is there anything magic about an AR-15 that makes it more deadly than a hunter's BAR or Remington semi-auto rifle. The hunters will likely have the more powerful rifles.

We can take an AR-15 and make it not an "assault weapon", despite it working exactly the same as it did when it was an "assault weapon".
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Sure there is. AR15 can fire more rounds more quickly than a hunter's rifle. Hunter rifles often are bolt-action, and they don't pop 30 rounds per reload.
 
BladeVenom said:
You're claiming, 5.56 is as lethal as 7.62x54? Link? Even the rifles used in WW1 fired a more lethal round than the 5.56.
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This guy is a fucking trolling for DEM brownie points.

For all intense purposes small caliber hand gun rounds are far more deadly at the range the SB killer shot from during his killing spree. Especially due to the propensity of these rounds to break apart/or bounce around inside a target and cause a tremendous amount of internal bleeding.
 
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karmypolitics said:
Sure there is. AR15 can fire more rounds more quickly than a hunter's rifle. Hunter rifles often are bolt-action, and they don't pop 30 rounds per reload.
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Considering the average police response times in big cities, you could fire over a hundred rounds with a bolt action rifle before the police arrive.
 
HendrixFan said:
People who rape are unconcerned about rape laws. Why make rape illegal?
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Why do you fools keep trying to make these just absolutely terrible comparisons? Besides rape not being a constitutionally protected right, keeping, and bearing arms doesn't not hurt anyone, or violate anyone else's rights
 
karmypolitics said:
Sure there is. AR15 can fire more rounds more quickly than a hunter's rifle. Hunter rifles often are bolt-action, and they don't pop 30 rounds per reload.
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There are varied reasons for the continued popularity of bolt-action rifles, but semi-auto are quite common, too. The Ruger 10/22, FI, is a popular example, used as a small game and varmint rifle.
 
karmypolitics said:
Sure there is. AR15 can fire more rounds more quickly than a hunter's rifle. Hunter rifles often are bolt-action, and they don't pop 30 rounds per reload.
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There are many hunting rifles which are not bolt action. You're purposely trying to paint a false picture here so as to claim that all legitimate hunting rifles are only bolt action.
 
karmypolitics said:
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar197.htm

capacity: 4+1

Which is why it's not used in these mass killings of random people. It would take too long to reload.
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Nope. Wrong. But they were only examples of semi-auto hunting rifles that are popular.

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/...42-750-7400-10-round-magazines-prod18397.aspx

Besides, we are talking about unarmed civilians waiting for the police to arrive. Reload time is not relevant unless it's very long.

In the case of the DC sniper, how is reload time relevant? They could have used a single shot rifle.

Note the rate of fire of the manually operated lever gun, and note that the shots are aimed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyRh...krv4peezFlGYQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=11s
 
LTC8K6 said:
Nope. Wrong. But they were only examples of semi-auto hunting rifles that are popular.

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/...42-750-7400-10-round-magazines-prod18397.aspx

Besides, we are talking about unarmed civilians waiting for the police to arrive. Reload time is not relevant unless it's very long.

In the case of the DC sniper, how is reload time relevant? They could have used a single shot rifle.

Note the rate of fire of the manually operated lever gun, and note that the shots are aimed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyRh...krv4peezFlGYQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=11s
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That's still less than the ar15
 
LTC8K6 said:
Nope. Wrong. But they were only examples of semi-auto hunting rifles that are popular.

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/...42-750-7400-10-round-magazines-prod18397.aspx

Besides, we are talking about unarmed civilians waiting for the police to arrive. Reload time is not relevant unless it's very long.

In the case of the DC sniper, how is reload time relevant? They could have used a single shot rifle.

Note the rate of fire of the manually operated lever gun, and note that the shots are aimed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyRh...krv4peezFlGYQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=11s
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how about revolvers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw
 
LTC8K6 said:
Is there even any evidence that these "mass killers" even used rapid fire during their crimes?
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it's about ammo capacity. 30 rounds before stopping to reload.

Most soldiers actually set their rifles to semi fire. Auto fire is for like suppressing fire.
 
karmypolitics said:
it's about ammo capacity. 30 rounds before stopping to reload.

Most soldiers actually set their rifles to semi fire. Auto fire is for like suppressing fire.
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I carried an M16 A1 and then an M16 A2...

Do you have any evidence that rapid fire, or lack of reloading played a factor in the number of deaths in any of your referenced crimes?
 
LTC8K6 said:
I carried an M16 A1 and then an M16 A2...

Do you have any evidence that rapid fire, or lack of reloading played a factor in the number of deaths in any of your referenced crimes?
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Mass shooters choose the nearest available weapon with the biggest capacities. Nidal Hasan at Ft. Hood went to the gun shop asking for that specifically.

So yes, rapid fire leads to more deaths.
 
karmypolitics said:
it's about ammo capacity. 30 rounds before stopping to reload.

Most soldiers actually set their rifles to semi fire. Auto fire is for like suppressing fire.
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How are either of those relevant? Mass murderers do not even have the option of select fire, and the majority of them do not use high capacity magazines, even though most use weapons that can take them (including several common pistols). Some have used high capacity magazines, but ironically, there seems to be more of positive correlation between of magazines carried and murders committed, than capacity of magazines, and murders committed.

LTC8K6 said:
Is there even any evidence that these "mass killers" even used rapid fire during their crimes?
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Some apparently would shoot people several times, even after killing them. But generally, no. Those that we have accounts of, and video of, tend to be fairly slow, taking their time. A timer inside the gun limiting shots to once every few seconds wouldn't do much good, and several mass murderers have had no issues at all carrying tons of reloads.

Until someone else comes in with a gun, they're in control. The regular citizen that can't get his tight range shots when faced with a real threat is in much more danger from being forced to have very small magazines, than the murderer that is carrying around 10 or more of them, and trying to pick his shots well. The thing is, we already have good examples of that, even without magazine restrictions.
 
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karmypolitics said:
utterly completely wrong. Sandy Hook used an AR15.

It is a semi-auto rifle that takes 30+ magazines at a time. That's all that's relevant, and what makes it an "assault rifle". Hunting rifles are often bolt-action, and take 10 or fewer rounds in magazines.
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Are you saying that something in 'regular' semi-auto rifles magically keeps it from accepting 30 round magazines? By your definition, every semi-auto rifle that takes a clip is an 'assault rifle'. If it can take a 3 1/2 round magazine, it can take a 250 round one. Magazine size is not dictated by the gun, just (soon to be) the gun haters.
 
Wiki says that Lanza actually reloaded frequently, and often only used half a magazine. Giving the timing, it also seems like he was not firing rapidly, and could have used a manually operated gun.

Lanza stopped shooting between 9:46 a.m. and 9:49 a.m., after firing 50 to 100 rounds.[47] He reloaded frequently during the shooting, sometimes firing only fifteen rounds from a thirty round magazine.
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Having to reload frequently didn't bother Lanza apparently, so I think we can throw out the high cap magazine argument for Sandy hook.
 
Cerb said:
How are either of those relevant? Mass murderers do not even have the option of select fire, and the majority of them do not use high capacity magazines, even though most use weapons that can take them (including several common pistols).

Some apparently would shoot people several times, even after killing them. But generally, no. Those that we have accounts of, and video of, tend to be fairly slow, taking their time. A timer inside the gun limiting shots to once every few seconds wouldn't do much good.
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They get whatever is available. 17-19 rounds they don't need to get aftermarket stuff because that's a ton of ammo already.

Lanza shot himself when first responders arrived. Others like Columbine are like hostage situations, but others you see police arriving within minutes.

Then, slowing down rate of fire and reloads helps.
 
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