Nvidia's ULI acquisition may mean it has Chipset Problems

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
If you check my thread (I don't understand why this thread was created & I seem to recall the mods closing another + posting a warning not to open any more threads on the subject in my thread...) you'll notice I reported the nVidia interview days ago.

Originally posted by: apoppin
Looking Ahead - RD580 & Manta
. . .

. . . the SB400 south bridge was eventually designed by ULi. ULi's version of SB400 ships with all Xpress 200 motherboards available right now, but optimistic claims that within a month or so ATI's new south bridge, SB450, will start bundling with their existing and next generation core logics.

no FUD like Rollo's last post . . . just the pure facts . . expect a stable ATI SB "soon" - according to Anand's Article, ati themsselves pointed to March '06 - . . . the only weakness in an otherwise great chipset.
:thumbsup:



edited

Until all this is shipped and working as advertised it isn't fact, just speculation, and there has been plenty of positive speculations about ATi chipsets before that have turned out to have no basis in reality.

Like I said before, I'll believe it when I can see it. Hopefully ATi may get it right this time, but they are up against their own past.

i have no objection to your 'see it to believe it' attitude . . . that is normal. otoh, i object to Rollo's FUD that say it is impossible for ATi to get anything right.

This topic was posted by me purely as a "conspiracy theory" . . . "news" from theInq . . . nothing more . . . the thing that IS noted: 'ATi's chipsets went from mediocre to excellent', rather suddenly . . . rather like when they came up with their surprising and outstanding r300. . . . after rather so-so GPUs.
:Q

. . . "soon" after ATi acquired ArtX in '00.
:shocked:

You mean kinda like when ATI engineers found the problem on the R520 with the metal layer issue? The core went from "teh suck" and suddenly as if sprinkled with fairy dust, worked like it was supposed to? It would seem that you have less confidence in ATI engineering know how that most others if you think the only way they can accomplish anything and get it done right is to "purchase" outside talent. Dude, you should know better.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
If you check my thread (I don't understand why this thread was created & I seem to recall the mods closing another + posting a warning not to open any more threads on the subject in my thread...) you'll notice I reported the nVidia interview days ago.

Originally posted by: apoppin
Looking Ahead - RD580 & Manta
. . .

. . . the SB400 south bridge was eventually designed by ULi. ULi's version of SB400 ships with all Xpress 200 motherboards available right now, but optimistic claims that within a month or so ATI's new south bridge, SB450, will start bundling with their existing and next generation core logics.

no FUD like Rollo's last post . . . just the pure facts . . expect a stable ATI SB "soon" - according to Anand's Article, ati themsselves pointed to March '06 - . . . the only weakness in an otherwise great chipset.
:thumbsup:



edited

Until all this is shipped and working as advertised it isn't fact, just speculation, and there has been plenty of positive speculations about ATi chipsets before that have turned out to have no basis in reality.

Like I said before, I'll believe it when I can see it. Hopefully ATi may get it right this time, but they are up against their own past.

i have no objection to your 'see it to believe it' attitude . . . that is normal. otoh, i object to Rollo's FUD that say it is impossible for ATi to get anything right.

This topic was posted by me purely as a "conspiracy theory" . . . "news" from theInq . . . nothing more . . . the thing that IS noted: 'ATi's chipsets went from mediocre to excellent', rather suddenly . . . rather like when they came up with their surprising and outstanding r300. . . . after rather so-so GPUs.
:Q

. . . "soon" after ATi acquired ArtX in '00.
:shocked:

The success after ArtX aquisition bit has never suprised me much. ATi would have been dead and buried by now if not for that aquisition. Always puzzled me why nVidia never purchased ArtX instead of 3dfx. They were the "last batch" of ex-SGI folk and shouldn't have been allowed to fall into "enemy" hands. Instead nVidia chased 3dfx's entrails - a washed up has of a company, I personally would have let ATi have them & grabbed ArtX - a rare blunder from nVidia.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

apoppin, are you trying to get recruited to get some free hardware or somethin' Fuggin' wit ya braddah.

Originally posted by: Fox5
Oh wow, guess they just took until 2004 to get into an actual product. (though they may have had a laptop prescence)

They HAD the 320M&340M IGP chipsets variants for AMD&Intel, and for the desktop, 320&340 IGP. While as a desktop platform the chipsets weren't as impressive as nV's offerings at the time, ATI did get a chance to sell chipsets for both platforms, and as an AMD mobile chipset was unmatched. From Anand's review of the Compaaq 900

This brings us to the second stumbling block that the mobile AMD solutions have faced. As we mentioned earlier, notebook manufacturers have really only had one option in the mobile AMD chipset market. They turned to VIA's KN133 chipset to power their Athlon based notebooks, a chipset that inherently tied down the new mobile Athlon XP chips due to its PC133 memory bus and aging 3D graphics core. Although competing solutions existed, OEMs were more than a bit concerned with producing a notebook using an unproven chipset from a chipset manufacturer with a poor reputation, regardless of whether this fear has any basis or not. Because of this, many potentially fast Athlon notebooks out there have been held back by a chipset from three years ago.

Thankfully the Radeon IGP 320M changes all of that. By producing a modern mobile AMD chipset, ATI was finally to bring the full potential of the CPU to the market. In addition, OEM designers were able to go with a company that has proven itself time and time again in the OEM world: ATI. As much as we may not want to admit it, an integrated chipset makes the most sense for a mobile AMD solution. Not only are AMD notebooks typically targeted at a lower price point than Pentium 4 ones, it is in the integrated arena that the majority of notebooks are sold.

This brings us to another point we mentioned earlier. In a short time we should be seeing Radeon IGP 340M notebooks hitting the market. This would make the chipset one of only two integrated video solutions available for the Pentium 4 platform. Again, the Radeon IGP 340M's only competitor will be the SiS 650 which will face the same problems that the SiS 740 faced in the mobile world.

Overall we were pleased with the Compaq Presario 900 and the Radeon IGP 320M. Although the chipset may not be a gamers best friend, it does make for a large improvement over what is being used in mobile AMD systems now. It brings to the market reasonable 3D support, fast 2D performance, and great DVD playback.

I bought a Compaq 900z on a hot deal back in sept '02 w/XP2000+ t-bred A and still use it to this day. I have never had a single serious issue with it, am still on the original install minus bloatware, and have watched many DVDs, and other types of movie formats on it. Plus it is fine for classics like UT, Q3, HL, ect. At the time PowerNow! seemed clearly superior to speedstep IMO, and ATI's PowerPlay helps too. the original battery still holds a 2hr+ charge, F'in amazing that it even holds a charge this much later.

ATI deserves credit for their efforts in the IGP chipset area over the last 3-4yrs IMHO.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
apoppin, are you trying to get recruited to get some free hardware or somethin' Fuggin' wit ya braddah.

Originally posted by: Fox5
Oh wow, guess they just took until 2004 to get into an actual product. (though they may have had a laptop prescence)

They HAD the 320M&340M IGP chipsets variants for AMD&Intel, and for the desktop, 320&340 IGP. While as a desktop platform the chipsets weren't as impressive as nV's offerings at the time, ATI did get a chance to sell chipsets for both platforms, and as an AMD mobile chipset was unmatched. From Anand's review of the Compaaq 900

This brings us to the second stumbling block that the mobile AMD solutions have faced. As we mentioned earlier, notebook manufacturers have really only had one option in the mobile AMD chipset market. They turned to VIA's KN133 chipset to power their Athlon based notebooks, a chipset that inherently tied down the new mobile Athlon XP chips due to its PC133 memory bus and aging 3D graphics core. Although competing solutions existed, OEMs were more than a bit concerned with producing a notebook using an unproven chipset from a chipset manufacturer with a poor reputation, regardless of whether this fear has any basis or not. Because of this, many potentially fast Athlon notebooks out there have been held back by a chipset from three years ago.

Thankfully the Radeon IGP 320M changes all of that. By producing a modern mobile AMD chipset, ATI was finally to bring the full potential of the CPU to the market. In addition, OEM designers were able to go with a company that has proven itself time and time again in the OEM world: ATI. As much as we may not want to admit it, an integrated chipset makes the most sense for a mobile AMD solution. Not only are AMD notebooks typically targeted at a lower price point than Pentium 4 ones, it is in the integrated arena that the majority of notebooks are sold.

This brings us to another point we mentioned earlier. In a short time we should be seeing Radeon IGP 340M notebooks hitting the market. This would make the chipset one of only two integrated video solutions available for the Pentium 4 platform. Again, the Radeon IGP 340M's only competitor will be the SiS 650 which will face the same problems that the SiS 740 faced in the mobile world.

Overall we were pleased with the Compaq Presario 900 and the Radeon IGP 320M. Although the chipset may not be a gamers best friend, it does make for a large improvement over what is being used in mobile AMD systems now. It brings to the market reasonable 3D support, fast 2D performance, and great DVD playback.

I bought a Compaq 900z on a hot deal back in sept '02 w/XP2000+ t-bred A and still use it to this day. I have never had a single serious issue with it, am still on the original install minus bloatware, and have watched many DVDs, and other types of movie formats on it. Plus it is fine for classics like UT, Q3, HL, ect. At the time PowerNow! seemed clearly superior to speedstep IMO, and ATI's PowerPlay helps too. the original battery still holds a 2hr+ charge, F'in amazing that it even holds a charge this much later.

ATI deserves credit for their efforts in the IGP chipset area over the last 3-4yrs IMHO.

there's nothing in AGP that could tempt me.

. . . and i don't think anyone would send me a new MB. . . . acording to Rollo, my rig is PATHETIC - according to him, i need to replace my antique 9800xt with a $200 nVidia card to make it FINE.
:Q



Naw . . . this just looked interesting . . . Fact is: ATi has been making mediocre chipsets for quite awhile . . . decent but UNspectacular . . . [kinda like making GPUs - until r300 - after the ArtX acquisition] . . . then "suddenly" their chipsets get really good . . . AND THEN nVidia buys ULI . . .

so it begs the question . . . did ATi "steal" away talent from either nVidia or Intel?

my guess - in this conspiracy theory - is ati acquired it from 'Intel' and yet ATi still remained "friendly with the Giant to get huge work orders from them.

however they did it, kudos to them . . . and it looks like we will see r580 [and maybe the new SB next month or shortly thereafter].

 

[Keysplayr]

My guess: ATI did it all on their own. Nvidia aquired ULi to not only get a foothold in the Taiwanese mobo market, supplement their already excellent core logic engineers, but to also get them a piece of the Intel mobile/desktop platforms. If nvidia had any shortcomings or problems with their chipset design for Intel, then the ULi purchase made a lot of sense. Because Intel has some "kickazz" chipsets.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
My guess: ATI did it all on their own. Nvidia aquired ULi to not only get a foothold in the Taiwanese mobo market, supplement their already excellent core logic engineers, but to also get them a piece of the Intel mobile/desktop platforms. If nvidia had any shortcomings or problems with their chipset design for Intel, then the ULi purchase made a lot of sense. Because Intel has some "kickazz" chipsets.

actually you are probably right . . .

but that's no "fun" nor does it fit in with the conspiracy theory
:thumbsdown:




now you know why i really posted this . . .

. . . interesting discussion despite my best intentions.
:shocked:



:laugh:

 

[kobymu]

/* my comment on the original post */

from what i know about hardware design and production outsourcing (which isn't much, i.e. I was involved in only 2 outsourcing projects, one was a 50,000$ total, and the second was 20,000,000$ but the 2nd one was a pure software project, AND my involvement in the project was in a low key position) $52 million isn't that much considering all the gains that come with ULi acquisition

A. large scale market penetration / any market share*

B. hard experienced design team (a very big +)

C. patent and cross-patent licenses/agreements

D. distribution network** & production facilities**

* in the core-logic market, considering the low number of players in the market (Intel, Via, SiS, ATI and Nvidia itself for a total of 5, not including ServerWorks and other nitch market companies), any market share is substantial market share!

** in this specific case, very little to non existence gains.

 

[fstime]

Hm, seems like you're all still acting like losers.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Mediocre is relative, as that old article I quoted points out, when they introduced the 320M IGP/Mobility U1, it was far and away the best you could get for an AMD notebook. I found myself buying one because I got what was a pretty fast CPU at the time in the XP 2000+ t-bred with PowerNow! support, and the best power usage-to-performance mobile IGP for a good price at the time. They did couple it with the relatively whimpy ALI M1535+ SB though, probably due to cost. It had sickly memory bandwidth for a DDR2100 chipset and only USB 1.1. ATI had more feature rich SB's in the IXP 200 and the IXP 250 which would have given me the one feature I'd like in my old notebook, integrated USB 2.0.

Concerning How ATI chipsets seem to improve so much in such a short period of time, I should think recruiting talent, their years of experience in making chipsets, and a bigger R&D budget all contributed to recent success. Couldn't hurt development that they were working hard on the 360 project either. With Intel seeming to be backing off on IGP and chipsets in general, your speculation that the new talent came from Intc seems reasonable anyways.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Hm, seems like you're all still acting like losers.

Thanks. Now go away.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Hm, seems like you're all still acting like losers.

Thanks. Now go away.

i couldn't figure to whom this non sequitur post was directed to - so i ignored it . . . now that you revived it . . .

How does one "act" like a loser? where did you get your acting lessons, BouZouki?
i always thought you were way too 'natural' to be acting like one.
:Q





when i referred to older ATi chipsets as "mediocre" it was relative to their current excellent ones.

 

[apoppin]

Here's some new info to add to the Rumour mill: nVidia's C60 integrated is cancelled and it needs a new one

Nvidia works on new Pentium 4 chipset

nVidia . . . had to cancel the C60 chipset and we saw some unpleasant flaws with C51, Geforce 6150 and 6100 integrated chipsets. TV out was and still is slightly dodgy but not too many people care about that.

During its last conference call, Nvidia's CEO confirmed that the company cancelled its C60 Pentium 4 chipset project. That was supposed to be the Geforce 6150 and 6100 for Intel but as Nvidia lost Intel chipset deal to ATI, it decided to can the chipset.

I guess that it was much more than just a loss to ATI and we suspect that this chipset had some problems that they just could not override. You don?t cancel a chip that has cost you millions of dollars for nothing. But, to be fair, perhaps it was a strategic decision.

So maybe ULI can make a good chipset for the Intel market as Nvidia is happy with the AMD end of its business. Nvidia desperately needs an entry level Pentium 4 chipset as this is where the money is.

That's [maybe] why nVidia acquired ULI.
:Q

IF nVidia couldn't fix it. . . .
:shocked:


. . . for $52 million . . .

uli will