nVidia's not so "Unified" Driver Support

[BFG10K]

Write it themselves? (not bloody likely...)

This is very possible - if a customer with such a card buys Vista and finds the card is unsupported they will blame Microsoft, not ATi.

On a similar vein IIRC the initial Creative Live/SB128 PCI drivers that were built into XP were written by Microsoft, not Creative. It was only later that Creative produced their own updated versions.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Write it themselves? (not bloody likely...)

This is very possible - if a customer with such a card buys Vista and finds the card is unsupported they will blame Microsoft, not ATi.

On a similar vein IIRC the initial Creative Live/SB128 PCI drivers that were built into XP were written by Microsoft, not Creative. It was only later that Creative produced their own updated versions.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen, unlike Creative, ATi don't have the graphics market sewn up.

I'd almost look forward to such a driver though actually. It'd be the laugh of the century if Microsofts driver turned out better than ATi's own (especially given R2xx's driver history).

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
BTW: They still support the Geforce 2 MX cards....all of them, regular, 100, 200 and 400.

Maybe because those were the only cards in the Geforce 2 line to be released on PCI, and thus the only ones capable of dual monitor support? They're also newer than the rest of the cards, minus the Geforce 2 Pro and Ti.

BTW, those old cards listed make poor dual monitor cards anyhow, they all had ****** RAMDACs, so unless you have one of the few cards with DVI...well they just suck.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

heh what i dont get is that the GF4 MX doesnt appear in that list........i thought the GF4 MX WAS a rebadged double timed GF2?

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Oh nos! now you wont be able to play riddick on your TNT. :shocked:

System:
Windows XP Pro - SP2
Athlon 64 3200+ Winchester @ 260x10, 1.55v
Asus A8V
1 gig TwinMos PC3200 (2x512) @ 186MHz 2-2-2-10-1T 2.8v

Video:
BFG 6800OC, pipes and vertex shader unlocked, 360/860
19" Hitachi CM772 1280x960/32bpp @ 85Hz
19" ViewSonic E790B 1280x960/32bpp @ 85Hz
PCI TNT2 M64 16MB
17" CTX flat CRT 1024x768/32bpp @ 85Hz

Riddick on TNT2? No.
On 6800OC, yes. And oh look, they're in the same PC ^^ see poster above).

Is your sarcasm meter broken? In ashes? Good god man.

Also, there is nothing stopping you from installing the new drivers on the 6800OC, and the old working drivers on the TNT2.

curious

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Where are the nVidia trolls who were slamming ATi for not supporting less than the R3xx under Vista and thereby claiming nVidia has driver better support?

Doesnt Vista require at least a DX9 compatible card, preferably a DX10 card?

 

[Regs]

nm

 

[Gstanfor]

Vista would run (with classic or leagcy GUI) on a Cirrus Logic 5424 (if drivers existed), but Aero would not.

For the higher levels of Aero you require a DX9 capable card, it will also run, with cutback feautures on Dx8.x cards as well.

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Write it themselves? (not bloody likely...)

This is very possible - if a customer with such a card buys Vista and finds the card is unsupported they will blame Microsoft, not ATi.

On a similar vein IIRC the initial Creative Live/SB128 PCI drivers that were built into XP were written by Microsoft, not Creative. It was only later that Creative produced their own updated versions.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen, unlike Creative, ATi don't have the graphics market sewn up.

I'd almost look forward to such a driver though actually. It'd be the laugh of the century if Microsofts driver turned out better than ATi's own (especially given R2xx's driver history).

wow.. pwnage.

excellent posts Gstanfor.. you really stuck it to him.

 

[imported_BikeDude]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
On a similar vein IIRC the initial Creative Live/SB128 PCI drivers that were built into XP were written by Microsoft, not Creative.

Do you have a source for this?

I've never seen MS write drivers, beyond add support for the most basic hardware (peripherals like mice and keyboards, plus SVGA modes without any 2D acceleration whatsoever).

 

[TSS]

as far as i know, aero will be so graphic heavy that anybody with a geforce 2 wouldnt be able to run it, regardless of driver support or not. and i belive it required a Directx 8 card, preferably 9 i doubt DX10 cards will be out before vista.

ima keep my geforce4 TI 4600 displaying XP for me. vista's overrated anyway

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: TSS
as far as i know, aero will be so graphic heavy that anybody with a geforce 2 wouldnt be able to run it, regardless of driver support or not. and i belive it required a Directx 8 card, preferably 9 i doubt DX10 cards will be out before vista.

ima keep my geforce4 TI 4600 displaying XP for me. vista's overrated anyway

GeForce2 will work ... in Classic/Legacy mode. It won't work with Aero, GeForce2 is DirectX V7 hardware compliant, and only DirectX V8.x compatible.

 

[beatle]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Also, there is nothing stopping you from installing the new drivers on the 6800OC, and the old working drivers on the TNT2.

Please explain how to do this.

 

[justly]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: TSS
as far as i know, aero will be so graphic heavy that anybody with a geforce 2 wouldnt be able to run it, regardless of driver support or not. and i belive it required a Directx 8 card, preferably 9 i doubt DX10 cards will be out before vista.

ima keep my geforce4 TI 4600 displaying XP for me. vista's overrated anyway

GeForce2 will work ... in Classic/Legacy mode. It won't work with Aero, GeForce2 is DirectX V7 hardware compliant, and only DirectX V8.x compatible.

Excuse me, but in beatle thread he states the newer drivers would not work at all with his TNT. If (yes if) all the cards dropped by these new drivers experiance the same effect then a GeForce 2 will not work in vista unless XP drivers and vista drivers are one in the same. That would be the only way a GeForce 2 will work (with Nvidia drivers) and only with old drivers.

IMO this sounds like a GeForce 2 wont be limited to Classic/Legacy mode, but instead will be limited to non-functional mode in vista (unless Microsoft writes a driver for it).

 

[Gstanfor]

Assuming driver support (which I did for the sake of the argument) the GeForce2 would operate as I described. Personally I don't expect driver support for GF2 in Vista, only for DX8 and up cards.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Even graphics makers as large as ATI and nV have limited resources, so they need to direct them where they are the most effectively employed. Wouldn't be surprised if research shows the number of users with hardware that old, do not tend to upgrade to latest, greatest OS, but instead acquire it when purchasing a new system. Satisfying the needs of relatively few consumers by implementing the support for senarios like

Unless (as in another thread) they are using a PCI card for extra monitor support, in which case the card it seems won't work with newer drivers.

Isn't employing those limited resources efficiently.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: Ackmed
There are still plenty of older drivers they can use. Not a big deal to me. If someone is using one of those cards, they should worry about upgrading it, as I seriously doubt newer drivers are going to do anything for them anyways.

Unless (as in another thread) they are using a PCI card for extra monitor support, in which case the card it seems won't work with newer drivers.

I didnt think about that. Thats a pretty valid concern. Does it not work at all, or what? Not many people do this, but for the small majority who do, it sucks.

Errr, the bolded contradicts the italics?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
There are still plenty of older drivers they can use. Not a big deal to me. If someone is using one of those cards, they should worry about upgrading it, as I seriously doubt newer drivers are going to do anything for them anyways.

QFT

This had to come sooner or later as time passed and the architecture of the cards got further from the those cards. I imagine in 6-7 years we'll be reading the same about GTXs.

 

[Fox5]

Those secondary cards could still use the basic VGA drivers available in Vista, they won't have 2d acceleration (unless that becomes a standard part of the driver?) but they'll work for the people who can't pay $20 to upgrade to a supported card with a decent RAMDAC.

Anyhow, I remember back when XP came out, ATI dropped support for a lot of their cards, though it didn't matter as much since ATI didn't have a large user base at that point. Actually, it probably still doesn't matter much.

 

[beatle]

The problem here is not that I want to run newer drivers on my TNT2 - I don't. I WANTED to keep running the old drivers, but newer games apparently have problems with them. I'll say it again: if there is a way to load separate drivers for my TNT2, I'll run them. If not, nvidia is driving people to buy cards from another manufacturer for their secondary card needs. I'm certainly not coming down on nvidia for dropping future development on the TNT2. I don't think anyone out there is hoping for a few more FPS in Half-Life on their TNT2 with the newest drivers.

My Matrox was my secondary video card for a loooong time. I only installed the TNT2 because I suspected there was a driver conflict. due to random crashes. What better way to eliminate a possible driver conflict than than to use a unified driver for all of my video cards?

 

[nRollo]

You could just buy a GF3 or GF4 for $50 or less and not worry about it?

Wouldn't be worth my time for money like that?

 

[beatle]

Why didn't I think of that? Oh, yeah, $50 is nothing. I light my cigars with c-notes. It'll also have to be passively cooled, of course.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: beatle
Why didn't I think of that? Oh, yeah, $50 is nothing. I light my cigars with c-notes. It'll also have to be passively cooled, of course.

Dude, what's your time worth? It comes to a point when you just spend the money because the hours dicking around looking for fixes, patches and alternate settings aren't worth it.

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: beatle
The problem here is not that I want to run newer drivers on my TNT2 - I don't. I WANTED to keep running the old drivers, but newer games apparently have problems with them. I'll say it again: if there is a way to load separate drivers for my TNT2, I'll run them. If not, nvidia is driving people to buy cards from another manufacturer for their secondary card needs. I'm certainly not coming down on nvidia for dropping future development on the TNT2. I don't think anyone out there is hoping for a few more FPS in Half-Life on their TNT2 with the newest drivers.

My Matrox was my secondary video card for a loooong time. I only installed the TNT2 because I suspected there was a driver conflict. due to random crashes. What better way to eliminate a possible driver conflict than than to use a unified driver for all of my video cards?

I'm sure you can find a used GF4 MX PCI on the FS/FT Forums or eBay for close to nothing. Might as well.

 

[Acanthus]

well the only way i can think of doing it is installing older drivers manually, youd have to find one of the ones that came in a zip package so you can install from the .inf file using add/remove hardware.

it does, however, work.

Regardless id still say pick up a newer pci vid card because i wouldnt wanna screw around with it for hours either, pci geforce 3s and 4s are cheap as hell used.