Nvidia's laziness

[VIAN]

How dare Nvidia just release speed updates. Their problem has got be more than software. Why didn't they try something like ATI did and arrange components or make something more efficient. Seemed to me that they just released the overclocked version just to release it. And it doesn't even surpass is predecessor the 5900 ultra. This just kills me. If their next gen chip gets rocked, I'm dropping all support.

 

[Jeff7181]

You forgot </rant>

**EDIT** BTW... I think that can be explained by this reply to a thread I started... at least, an explanation can be drawn from what this quote says...

Originally posted by: DefRef
The GPU in the Xbox is like a GF3.5 and that's a DX8 part, so your logic doesn't follow thru.

There was an interesting interview with Nvidia's chief scientist that touched upon the development of Cg and HLSL. A snip:

FiringSquad: Could you give us more details on your recent decision to emphasize HLSL over Cg?

Kirk: You?re already seeing the ramifications of it as we begin to work more closely with Microsoft and optimize more and more for working with HLSL but let me give you a little history. Go back, say around two to three years when we started working on the FX architecture, we began to realize that complex programmable pipelines were going to require a high level language, and at that time there was no HLSL and we were working with other people in the industry including Microsoft to try and promote a programming language but we were not able to get any interest. So we started our own effort to develop Cg because we knew it would be required, whether or not anyone else thought it was important or not.

As we started out with Cg it was a great boost to getting programmers used to working with programmable GPUs. Now Microsoft has made a major commitment and in the long term we don?t really want to be in the programming language business and that?s not where our expertise is but its something we had to do, there was no other choice available. I think now that we have the opportunity to work collaboratively with Microsoft on HLSL for DirectX that?s a much more efficient way for us to work than to do it on our own.

It sounds like Nvidia tried to take the lead in the development of high-level languages and got clipped for trying to blaze the trail rather than follow along. Unfortunately, being first doesn't necessarily equal winning the race.

 

[VIAN]

I read about that, very interesting stuff. But CG is like HLSL but with special commands for Geforce cards only I heard.

 

[DefRef]

Originally posted by: VIANHow dare Nvidia just release speed updates. If their next gen chip gets rocked, I'm dropping all support.

Um....isn't the 9800XT just an OCed 9800? Also, you've been thoroughly on the record as an ATI supporter, so I sincerely doubt Nvidia was gonna lose a sale.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: VIAN
I read about that, very interesting stuff. But CG is like HLSL but with special commands for Geforce cards only I heard.

Which is why when MS set the HLSL standard, and GeForce FX cards were designed around CG, their HLSL performance isn't up to par with ATI's, which IS designed aroudn HLSL. I take that response to that question to mean that nVidia created something MS didn't see a need for... and when MS saw the need, they created it, and we all know how much of an influence MS has on the rest of the computing world. So that left nVidia with a GPU already half designed for CG, and now MS wants to use HLSL as the standard... oops. Also from that response, I assume nVidia's next offering will be extremely competative since now MS has set a standard for everyone to adhere to.

 

[VIAN]

I had a Geforce4 and I use the Nforce2. both Nvidia products and ATI is more efficient it seems but I have not lost all faith in Nvidia and I do not trust ATI completely either. As this is just one success and one screw up. But at the moment I do favor ATI for their efficiency. If Nvidia doesnt' shape up, I might not buy any of their products again from lack of trust which has already started.

If what Jeff says is true, then next gen is gonna be a battle. -blood pumps- Let's hope, for Nvidia's sake Jeff is right, I don't want to see them fail. Nvidia is like the 3dfx of my generation.

 

Nvidia should hire you VIAN, you seem to have energy to burn. Go fill out an application and tell them how you can make their company better. Tell them I sent you. :evil:

 

[DefRef]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181I take that response to that question to mean that nVidia created something MS didn't see a need for... and when MS saw the need, they created it, and we all know how much of an influence MS has on the rest of the computing world.

Not quite. Remember when 3dfx used to mock everything Nvidia did? "Who needs 32-bit color? Who needs T&L? What uses AGP?" and so on. Nvidia saw that for GPUs to work better, they needed a high-level language and decided to create one where none existed and no one seemed to care. AFTER they took the lead, M$ decides to promote HLSL and make it different from what Cg was doing. M$ could've simply adopted Cg as the official HLSL, but they didn't. What I didn't quote was him saying that Cg is still useful for OpenGL and CAD applications that DirectX doesn't support.

 

Shady said it best when he said, "These are just filler cards." Meaning ATI and Nvidia's way of milking us like cows for more money and negligable performance. These cards dont even deserve to be on shelves. Little or no performance gain from either of them.

I wish I could stop everyone from buying any of them, just to show ATI and Nvidia that we are not a bunch of morons that will buy anything you guys put out. I wouldnt buy anything more than the 9800np or 5900nu at this moment.
Both will do nicely until the next CORE REVISION GPU's come out.

GM

 

[VIAN]

yes thats very true.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: gorillaman
Shady said it best when he said, "These are just filler cards." Meaning ATI and Nvidia's way of milking us like cows for more money and negligable performance. These cards dont even deserve to be on shelves. Little or no performance gain from either of them.

I wish I could stop everyone from buying any of them, just to show ATI and Nvidia that we are not a bunch of morons that will buy anything you guys put out. I wouldnt buy anything more than the 9800np or 5900nu at this moment.
Both will do nicely until the next CORE REVISION GPU's come out.

GM

Why shouldn't they squeeze every last drop of performance they can out of their current design? If you don't want to buy it then DON'T FRIGGIN BUY IT. Not everybody already has a top of the line card.

 

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: gorillaman
Shady said it best when he said, "These are just filler cards." Meaning ATI and Nvidia's way of milking us like cows for more money and negligable performance. These cards dont even deserve to be on shelves. Little or no performance gain from either of them.

I wish I could stop everyone from buying any of them, just to show ATI and Nvidia that we are not a bunch of morons that will buy anything you guys put out. I wouldnt buy anything more than the 9800np or 5900nu at this moment.
Both will do nicely until the next CORE REVISION GPU's come out.

GM

Why shouldn't they squeeze every last drop of performance they can out of their current design? If you don't want to buy it then DON'T FRIGGIN BUY IT. Not everybody already has a top of the line card.

Ok, BoberFett. Lets say that you own ( for examples sake ) a Radeon 9700pro. I present to you two new cards and give you an option to buy one of them. The 9800XT at 499.00 or 9800np at 250.00. You decide that you dont think it is worth the upgrade because your 9700pro already kicks butt. But now change the card you own to an Radeon 8500. I present you with the same two cards. Which would you buy if those were your only choices and considering the minimal performance gain with going for the extra 250 dollars and the 9800XT.

Dude, what I am saying is, these cards shouldn't even be here. They don't care about sqeezing every last drop of performance they can out of their current design! The care about squeezing every last drop of money out of your bleeding hands.

This is my opinion. Respect it because I respect yours. Thanks
:beer:

 

[Pete]

Look at it this way: ATi is offering, for the same price, a slightly faster card. What's wrong with that? Incremental progress has given us the 3.2GHz P4 and 3200+ Athlon (not to mention the GF->GF2->GF3->GF4 and 8500->9700), so I don't see why the R360, NV38, RV360, and NV36 are rip-offs.

If you have $400 to spend today, you're going to get more for your money than if you had it to spend last year or even last spring. That's progress, baby! It may not be a huge leap like from the GF3 to the 4600, or the 4600 to the 9700P, but those leaps really only happen with significantly revamped chips. Sure, the NV40 and R420 will be more exciting, but the XT ain't too shabby. Dynamic OCing should be interesting, too. Cat 3.8's are due within a week or so, so we'll see what that feature does for XT performance in Part II of Anand's article.

 

[modedepe]

While I agree that the performance increase you'll get from a 9800xt doesn't justify the price, this is nothing new. This is the exact same case with the current top end cards. Just look at the 9800 pro 256mb. Its performance doesn't justify the price either, but people still buy it. If people want to blow $500 on a video, I say go ahead. It's their money, not mine.

 

[Jeff7181]

This has just got me curious... in the X2 benchmark, my overclocked FX5900 kicks everything else's butt by almost 50%... I ran the benchmark at 490/950... which I would assume is an attainable speed for 75% of FX5900's, seeing as how mine will go even higher. How would an overclocked 9800 Pro compare? ANAND... DO SOME OVERCLOCKING BENCHIES!!!

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: gorillaman

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: gorillaman
Shady said it best when he said, "These are just filler cards." Meaning ATI and Nvidia's way of milking us like cows for more money and negligable performance. These cards dont even deserve to be on shelves. Little or no performance gain from either of them.

I wish I could stop everyone from buying any of them, just to show ATI and Nvidia that we are not a bunch of morons that will buy anything you guys put out. I wouldnt buy anything more than the 9800np or 5900nu at this moment.
Both will do nicely until the next CORE REVISION GPU's come out.

GM

Why shouldn't they squeeze every last drop of performance they can out of their current design? If you don't want to buy it then DON'T FRIGGIN BUY IT. Not everybody already has a top of the line card.

Ok, BoberFett. Lets say that you own ( for examples sake ) a Radeon 9700pro. I present to you two new cards and give you an option to buy one of them. The 9800XT at 499.00 or 9800np at 250.00. You decide that you dont think it is worth the upgrade because your 9700pro already kicks butt. But now change the card you own to an Radeon 8500. I present you with the same two cards. Which would you buy if those were your only choices and considering the minimal performance gain with going for the extra 250 dollars and the 9800XT.

Dude, what I am saying is, these cards shouldn't even be here. They don't care about sqeezing every last drop of performance they can out of their current design! The care about squeezing every last drop of money out of your bleeding hands.

This is my opinion. Respect it because I respect yours. Thanks
:beer:

I don't respect yours because it's the opinion of an ignoramus. They can charge whatever they want for the fastest hardware they can produce. If you don't like it DON'T FRIGGIN BUY IT.

You think that NOBODY should buy ANY card from these companies because their most expensive card costs $500? You're a first class fool.

Edit: To clarify further, it's not like they've quit producing all other cards. The $500 card is not the only option. If it was, perhaps your argument would have merit. But as it stands, there's still the option of an entire range of cards from either major graphics card company which fit just about any budget. You don't have to go straight from an 8500 to a 9800XT. The 9800NP is still available so your vitriol is completely unfounded. Even worse for your argument is the fact that bringing out slightly faster cards generally pushes the price down on the models underneath it, making more power more affordable for more people.

In short, you're a dimwit.