Nvidia to blame for its 600 shortage?

[jzmagic]

The fact that GTX 660 Ti won't be out until another 6 months would seem to corroborate their yield and design issues. Early reports said they were supposed to release around this time. Another 6 months seems like a long time for "just" waiting on TSMC.

 

[Olikan]

Sounds good, but, what is a "a fair number" of cards? Charlie is of by 2x what is actually shipping? 5x the true number? 10x the real number? More?

impossible to say....

but the 680 don't appear in steam survey, so it's more shortage because yields than demand

 

[3DVagabond]

Those people who needed Charlie to tell them there's issues that only apply to nVidia are the same people who wouldn't believe him if he said the sky is blue.

We need the 660 for competition in that category. Hopefully we won't have to wait as long as we did for the 460. Also hoping that it influences the market like the 460 did as well. 7850's for <$200 and 7870'S FOR ~$220 would be nice.

 

[Jaydip]

Those people who needed Charlie to tell them there's issues that only apply to nVidia are the same people who wouldn't believe him if he said the sky is blue.

We need the 660 for competition in that category. Hopefully we won't have to wait as long as we did for the 460. Also hoping that it influences the market like the 460 did as well. 7850's for <$200 and 7870'S FOR ~$220 would be nice.

Thats impossible,it would be a foolish move from AMD to price 7870 so close to 7850.I think 7850 @ 199$ and 7870 @ 249$ will be more closer to reality.

 

[Genx87]

Not surprising if true. nvidia had difficulty on 40nm at its inception as well. 680 so far has been a soft launch, considering the still poor state of availability 6 weeks after launch.

They all do. AMD did as well when they first started shipping their latest chips. Why this is news is beyond me.

 

[Keysplayr]

They all do. AMD did as well when they first started shipping their latest chips. Why this is news is beyond me.

Enough time passes by, then the info is "re-introduced" as new info. The hope springs eternal that nobody will bother to dig up the original info and dates.

IMHO.

 

[Subyman]

What shortage? I got mine on launch so I haven't noticed

 

[ocre]

and the thread completely ignored your post:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile..._for_Inability_to_Make_Enough_28nm_Chips.html

And let me quote it:

-demand for its latest Snapdragon S4 application processors and made using 28nm technology exceeds TSMC's ability to manufacture the chips using the latest process tech.
-Although the manufacturing yields are progressing per expectations, there is a shortage of 28nm capacity. We are working closely with our partners to bring additional capacity online. However, the constraints on 28nm supply are limiting our potential revenue upside this fiscal year.

- kinda reminds me of nvidia lowering its revenue forcast?? anyone else?

-Qualcomm will outsource production of 28nm devices to other foundries.
-Qualcomm confirmed that it is working with its other partners among contract makers of semiconductors to manufacture the Snapdragon S4 and potentially S5 products at their capacities.

kinda exactly an echo of nvidia:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...samsung-fab2c-ibm2c-globalfoundries-next.aspx

- NVIDIA passed the point of impatience with their main foundry, Taiwanese TSMC.
- NVIDIA talked to Samsung about a trial run of Tegra chips. The engineering work required for this task took a lot of effort from NVIDIA and Samsung, but we received word that very recently, NVIDIA received chips from Samsung.

What would you know. Just a tiny bit of research shows that its pretty clear that TSMC isnt delivering. Nvidia has turned to other foundries, this would be at an extremely high cost. Qualcomm is doing the same. If the issue was design related why would nvidia be investing in other fabs? None of what charlie says adds up.

Its a lot more likely charlie is in need of page hits and he will say whatever he can to get them. This article isnt even worth the time to read.

 

[Keysplayr]

None of what charlie says adds up.

Its a lot more likely charlie is in need of page hits and he will say whatever he can to get them. This article isnt even worth the time to read.

He is a waste of oxygen when it comes to Nvidia news. If you want a rosier than red selection of possible outcomes for AMD, Charlie is your man.

 

[3DVagabond]

Thats impossible,it would be a foolish move from AMD to price 7870 so close to 7850.I think 7850 @ 199$ and 7870 @ 249$ will be more closer to reality.

I don't want the gap to be necessarily any closer than you do. I just want the prices to be a bit less.

7850's for <$200 and 7870'S FOR ~$220 would be nice.

I want less than 200. I'm not just talking $1.00 less. Then I said for about $220. I never meant exactly $200 and $220.

 

[Arzachel]

and the thread completely ignored your post:

And let me quote it:

- kinda reminds me of nvidia lowering its revenue forcast?? anyone else?

kinda exactly an echo of nvidia:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...samsung-fab2c-ibm2c-globalfoundries-next.aspx

What would you know. Just a tiny bit of research shows that its pretty clear that TSMC isnt delivering. Nvidia has turned to other foundries, this would be at an extremely high cost. Qualcomm is doing the same. If the issue was design related why would nvidia be investing in other fabs? None of what charlie says adds up.

Its a lot more likely charlie is in need of page hits and he will say whatever he can to get them. This article isnt even worth the time to read.

This is comparing apples to oranges. Qualcom produces SoCs on the 28nm. As you all know, the SoC market has very slim margins but a huge demand, so for them supply has a much bigger impact on their bottom line.

On the other hand, GPUs command far larger margins. Nvidia could coast selling higher priced 680s before going on to launch the rest of their lineup, that has lower margins, when yields and supply gets better.

Now the question is: 4 months later why does AMD have their whole desktop lineup released while Nvidia is struggling to keep the GTX680 in stock? You might say that the 680 has plenty of stock in europe but I'm guessing that is mostly because 100-150$ over the 7970 that already costs 550-600$ is a pretty tough pill to swallow. My guess is that the shortages are caused by a combination of Nvidia spending most of their wafers trying to meet laptop OEM contracts and a design issue with the GK104 causing poor yields.

He is a waste of oxygen when it comes to Nvidia news. If you want a rosier than red selection of possible outcomes for AMD, Charlie is your man.

That's pretty ironic, considering that Charlie was the one saying that GK104 is going to beat Tahiti in every metric(which ended up being not quite true) and disagreed with the fixed function Physx hardware rumor, instead saying that the increased Physx performance comes from architectural changes(which ended up being true).

 

[ShintaiDK]

The question is why read S/A and any of their BS?

You would get more precise answers if you asked an 8ball.

 

[3DVagabond]

The question is why read S/A and any of their BS?

You would get more precise answers if you asked an 8ball.

You might be surprised at the knowledge base that hangs at S/A's forum. They also run a pretty tidy ship. No flame wars, name calling etc...

Whether Charlie is going to be right or not about anything? I don't think he's that far off usually. He just hates nVidia. Some people can't deal with that part of his online persona.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You might be surprised at the knowledge base that hangs at S/A's forum. They also run a pretty tidy ship. No flame wars, name calling etc...

Whether Charlie is going to be right or not about anything? I don't think he's that far off usually. He just hates nVidia. Some people can't deal with that part of his online persona.

I usually see him make about 20 articles stating different things. Then if he gets something right, he shows one of those articles and sas see, I told you so.

He is so useless it hurts. And all he does is to make some navie people keep clicking his ads so he can continue doing so.

As said, I got more faith in an 8ball.

 

[3DVagabond]

I usually see him make about 20 articles stating different things. Then if he gets something right, he shows one of those articles and sas see, I told you so.

He is so useless it hurts. And all he does is to make some navie people keep clicking his ads so he can continue doing so.

As said, I got more faith in an 8ball.

Nah. You're confusing him with someone else. Someone who edits their articles after they are shown to be wrong. You're entitled to your opinion though. There's certainly nothing of major importance in Charlie's articles that you need to worry about missing, that's for sure.

 

[KompuKare]

I don't know why some many bash Charlie all the time. He may not like Nvidia but he's hardly the only journalist with a grudge. And he does manage to get the dirt a lot times. Sure SA (and the Inquirer) are mud-racking, sensationalistic tabloit sites but that doesn't mean the don't manage to find out stuff.

With his one big expose (bump failures with G84s and G86s etc.), Charlie was very very correct. In fact if I had been paying more attention to Charlie's rants and less to the tame journalism which passes on other sites, I would never have bought a G92, never have had it fail on me due to substandard design and wouldn't have to keep pointing out to people why I will never buy Nvidia again...

The real relevant question which should be asked of all tech sites is who is more important to them: their readers or their advertisers / corporate relations. For consumers, Charlie handled Nvidia's defect very well: most other tech sites barely touched the issue. In fact Intel's Cougar Point Chipset failure got a lot more publicity despite being far minor and Intel doing the right thing for its customers. Strange.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

These shortages are only in USA. Not in Europe or Asia. In India the 680 sells for like $650-700 and the 7970 for the same price and neither is ever out of stock once they are available for the first time

 

[krumme]

2012:
NV issues an earning warning
Nobody of comparable interest does


2011:
Some moron at TSMC gave "super ego biceps in t-shirt, with wood screws flying around, mumbling all things about pilots between teams" a working die price

Now the time is different.
Is anyone surprised it takes time for TSMC to ramp proces. The make a soft ramp exactly like planned and exactly like before. Its not a steep ramp like GF used to do?
Is anyone surprised everyone and his brother wants 28nm?

NO NO - all knows, and nvidia knew before most. It just takes years not months to adapt if you had your technology focus other places like say arm market and just missed some importants parts of your technology development. The result is lower yield. It happens for all.

Then they have marketing. NV marketing, that makes all other look like amateurs. The result: they manage to make a paper launch 690 into something called "limited numbers" because its in the thousands - as say if. 2000 within a month makes a difference. Then the reviewers dont label it a paper launch. Work done well, thats what they are paid to do, and thats why they get their pay again.

 

[Lonbjerg]

2012:
NV issues an earning warning
Nobody of comparable interest does


2011:
Some moron at TSMC gave "super ego biceps in t-shirt, with wood screws flying around, mumbling all things about pilots between teams" a working die price

Now the time is different.
Is anyone surprised it takes time for TSMC to ramp proces. The make a soft ramp exactly like planned and exactly like before. Its not a steep ramp like GF used to do?
Is anyone surprised everyone and his brother wants 28nm?

NO NO - all knows, and nvidia knew before most. It just takes years not months to adapt if you had your technology focus other places like say arm market and just missed some importants parts of your technology development. The result is lower yield. It happens for all.

Then they have marketing. NV marketing, that makes all other look like amateurs. The result: they manage to make a paper launch 690 into something called "limited numbers" because its in the thousands - as say if. 2000 within a month makes a difference. Then the reviewers dont label it a paper launch. Work done well, thats what they are paid to do, and thats why they get their pay again.

You sound mad..over a very loose term "paper launch".
Shall I dig up a review of a paperlaunch so you can learn the difference?

 

[Selenium_Glow]

These shortages are only in USA. Not in Europe or Asia. In India the 680 sells for like $650-700 and the 7970 for the same price and neither is ever out of stock once they are available for the first time

Not sure if there are many people in India buying a card at that price. And if not many people are buying it here, then I can assume that the shops still have the first batch shipped to them by NV.

For the price of one GTX680 the average Indian would buy a laptop with a graphics card and game on low resolution (Counter Strike, DoTA, NFS:MW and some games whose pirated version is easily available). Enthusiasts who'd actually shell off money to buy top notch stuff are far too few here... at least far too few in New Delhi/NCR, where I saw boxed 680s last week only.

 

[Arzachel]

http://www.techpowerup.com/165707/TSMC-Gives-NVIDIA-Priority-for-28-nm-Manufacturing.html

Seeing how Qualcomm has already said that they're displeased with how TSMC been operating, I wouldn't be surprised if GF/Samsung would be getting new clients in the nearest future.

 

[ShintaiDK]

http://www.techpowerup.com/165707/TSMC-Gives-NVIDIA-Priority-for-28-nm-Manufacturing.html

Seeing how Qualcomm has already said that they're displeased with how TSMC been operating, I wouldn't be surprised if GF/Samsung would be getting new clients in the nearest future.

GF is a disaster. And Samsung cant follow up either. None of the 2 can deliver 28nm. It will only expand over time. Intel will get further ahead, TSMC will be half between Intel and the rest.

So in short, for Qualcomm, nVidia, AMD there is only TSMC. Unless they want to use inferiour processnodes. Why do you think nVidia is basicly begging to Intel to allow usage of the foundries?

Remember AMD payed a large sum to get out of a GF contract. Simply because GF cant even deliver enough 32nm chips.

 

[SirPauly]

I think you might be mistaken. While the 680 is a very desirable product, the likelihood it's in greater demand than the 7850 is slim to none. We're talking the best midrange card on the market right now. While some models of 7800/7900 go OoS, I've yet to go to Newegg and find any of them all sold out.

What proof do you have? I can make the point using some data -- not official -- certainly not Mercury Research or Jon Peddie but based on steam data the GTX 680 is out there in numbers much more than the entire 78XX series.

 

[Stuka87]

What proof do you have? I can make the point using some data -- not official -- certainly not Mercury Research or Jon Peddie but based on steam data the GTX 680 is out there in numbers much more than the entire 78XX series.

This seems highly unlikely. A high end card has never outsold a mid range card. Simple economics shows that there is a LOT more people willing to pay 200-300 for a video card than 500+. I would like to know just where you have this unofficial data that states a just released, limited quantity, top end card is outselling a cheaper, higher quantity, mid range card.

 

[blastingcap]

GF is a disaster. And Samsung cant follow up either. None of the 2 can deliver 28nm. It will only expand over time. Intel will get further ahead, TSMC will be half between Intel and the rest.

So in short, for Qualcomm, nVidia, AMD there is only TSMC. Unless they want to use inferiour processnodes. Why do you think nVidia is basicly begging to Intel to allow usage of the foundries?

Remember AMD payed a large sum to get out of a GF contract. Simply because GF cant even deliver enough 32nm chips.

NV dismissed the idea of sourcing from GloFo in 2009, but times change: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=33356836&postcount=19