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NVIDIA Stereovision on morning news(!)
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ArchAngel777
Diamond Member
That is a good website though. BFG writes some articles there, extremely thorough and well done. Apop has some great articles too.
I've known keys to spend $600 on a toy, and you know I do.
I don't object to anything negative being said, I object to people nitpicking lines out of articles that have "I love this!" as their conclusion to try and paint a negative picture of what is very fun tech to play with.
My guess is people with $600 to blow on a toy for the most part aren't going to be saying "Oh noes! I have to turn the bloom off in FC2- I want my bloom!".
If they're like me they'll think "Hmmm, while I have to turn the bloom and DX10 off, it looks 1000% better three dimensional , so that's probably a fair trade."
Most people don't realize that what this adds to a game eclipses the piddly IQ enhancements of yesteryear by a large margin.
Also, I'm guessing people with $600 to spend on a toy for the most part will just keep their old monitor and have all the advantages of having it both ways. If you're buying $600 toys odds are you haven't been waiting till 2009 to buy an LCD anyway.
I agree most people have to think twice about spending $600 on a toy. However, a lot of people (self included) don't, so that doesn't make this a bad deal.
A fishing rod costs me around $250 and I'm not even buying the high end ones. My favorite shotgun costs $1300 these days. It cost me over $100 to fill the tank on my main fishing boat last summer. It cost another $100 to fill the truck to pull it to the lake. It cost me $1500 to put together a dusty little jon boat to leave on the shore at my shack. The motherboard I bought in December cost me $1700. The new ice shanty and heater I bought in December cost $400.. The canoe I bought in October cost $800, and was pretty cheap as far as they go. Etc ad inifinitum.
You act like $600 for a hobby is some stratospheric sum and it's just a middle of the road expenditure if you have hobbies that require equipment, as is illustrated above.
This isn't like 3d movies, this is way better in my opinion. (although I'd pay $600 to watch my movies in 3d too!)
ArchAngel777
Diamond Member
To be fair, Rollo makes some valid, legitamate points. Although I will say I am initially dissapointed by the reviews. If I had extra money, I would maybe consider it, but the trade-offs at this point are too much to consider. Even with my 280GTX, I don't think I could play some of these titles that I want at the resolutions and AA/AF that I like. I don't mind turning down some in game options down to see 3D, but cutting my frame rate in half is like putting me back in my 8800GTS 512MB, which by all rights was still a decent card, but not for the most recent titles.
Biggest draw back for me personally
1) Sensative Eyes
2) $$$
3) Performance cut in half
Two of those are specific to myself, so not eveyone will be held back, the third is basically universal. But if you are rich like Rollo or are given free graphics cards and can do 280GTX Tri Sli, then the 3rd drawback is a non issue too. So, I guess in Rollo's situation, I have to agree with him. For him, this really is a kick butt thing. He has everything he needs to run it properly.
Biggest draw back for me personally
1) Sensative Eyes
2) $$$
3) Performance cut in half
Two of those are specific to myself, so not eveyone will be held back, the third is basically universal. But if you are rich like Rollo or are given free graphics cards and can do 280GTX Tri Sli, then the 3rd drawback is a non issue too. So, I guess in Rollo's situation, I have to agree with him. For him, this really is a kick butt thing. He has everything he needs to run it properly.
apoppin
Lifer
miffed? no way .. i have also played with the tech .. and here is something for you that is face value ...
OK .. now we have *the question*
--Are you BUYING it for yourself ?
. . . anytime soon ?
that to me speaks more than anything one says .. actions DO speak louder than words
How did you get to preview it without receiving glasses?
😕
But that's just it. It's not just $600 for my computer gaming hobby. I've already spent hundreds on a nice monitor, hundreds on a fast CPU, a hundred dollars on memory, a hundred for a nice PSU, hundreds on a nice motherboard, hundreds for games, etc.
You act as if $600 is the entire sum. But it's $600 for just 3D gaming. I can get enjoyment out of my games just fine without 3D stereoscopic glasses. It isn't a necessity to purchase these glasses, it's very optional. And I doubt I would get $600 worth of enjoyment out of them compared to spending that $600 on something else in my life.
No, as the reviewers and people in this thread have said, they're simply not worth $600 to most of us.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
What is it about this particular $600 dollars that is different than all the previous hundreds you say you've spent on computer hardware? Is money different now? Is it the only $600 dollars you'll ever have again? Is it a different kind of 600 dollars than say the 600 dollars you spent on a CPU, a new monitor and some RAM? Surely you didn't need to do all of that, but you opted to do so. Surely part of the reason you did it so you can play your games a bit better? Creig, what you don't really quite grasp here, is that nobody is forcing your hand to purchase a 120MHz Monitor and glasses. Some people look at the cost and say, "Hmm, maybe I'll look into getting this. Depends on my tax return or how much Christmas bonus money I have left." Some others will say, "I am so there as soon as this hits the shelves. That's a great price!" And lastly, others will say, "It's way too expensive for me.
"I'll say I can get enjoyment out of my games just fine without stereoscopic glasses. It isn't a necessity to purchase these glasses, it's VERY optional."
Well of COURSE it's optional. For everyone. 🙂
nOOky
Diamond Member
The technology looks interesting, I'd love to try it firsthand myself before passing judgment. I wouldn't want to buy all the first generation hardware until the quirks are ironed out and prices decline though. I applaud the effort by nvidia. It does seems like an economically challenging time to introduce this type of hardware, especially when most of us are getting used to $200 almost-top-of-the-line video cards.
@keys
what he is probably saying is that most of those part he bought not only benefited his gaming needs but his other multimedia needs ex. browsing, photo editing, encoding and almost anything you could possibly do on your computer unlike those glasses thus the bolded "just". btw i do think that the entrance fee is a bit too high but if it is as great as some of you say, since i have no experience whatsoever with this thing, it might just be worth it (if and only if).
what he is probably saying is that most of those part he bought not only benefited his gaming needs but his other multimedia needs ex. browsing, photo editing, encoding and almost anything you could possibly do on your computer unlike those glasses thus the bolded "just". btw i do think that the entrance fee is a bit too high but if it is as great as some of you say, since i have no experience whatsoever with this thing, it might just be worth it (if and only if).
dug777
Lifer
Absolutely 🙂
However, I have the greatest respect for the AT reviewers, and given this is a very subjective matter (not a straight 'how many fps does card x get with driver y' type of review), I admit that I weight the AT review very heavily.
I shall wait until I can try it instore or at a mate's place before I plonk that kind of coin down however. Photography is my expensive hobby for the moment :beer:
I read something many years ago in a book, a small book about "going racing." What it took, how much it cost, what it was really like, etc....
[Paraphrasing here, from a book I haven't read for years, but I think this is the gist of it:]
The author was asked, at some point, how much it cost to buy a set of tires for his Formula Ford, and he replied "about $400, and they'll only be good for a couple of weekends of racing before they are shot."
"Good Grief!" was the reply. "I can buy a new refrigerator for $400! That's ridiculous!"
"True," he said, "but the moments I spend racing are really the pinnacle moments of my life. I'll remember those moments fondly too for the rest of my life, but I won't remember a new refrigerator. So for me, it's worth it."
-------------
For me, I think it might be worth it too. I can't afford to race cars in real life, so I do all my racing on the PC, and invest quite a lot of time, thought, and a fair bit of money in it (if it wasn't for sim-racing, I don't think I'd ever buy a new PC, in fact).
I'm so enamored with the possibility of building one of these new (stripped), LCD panels into a large-format projector, in fact, that I'm finally considering buying a copy of Vista,* just so I can use the new drivers and glasses with it.
[*This is something I thought I would never consider until now, but I finally have a reason to want to build a Vista PC instead of a XP PC. I'll use it ONLY for simming/gaming, mind you (I use Linux for most everything else), so I can probably live with Microsoft spying on my every move (WGA)...but I still won't like it much.]
k
[Paraphrasing here, from a book I haven't read for years, but I think this is the gist of it:]
The author was asked, at some point, how much it cost to buy a set of tires for his Formula Ford, and he replied "about $400, and they'll only be good for a couple of weekends of racing before they are shot."
"Good Grief!" was the reply. "I can buy a new refrigerator for $400! That's ridiculous!"
"True," he said, "but the moments I spend racing are really the pinnacle moments of my life. I'll remember those moments fondly too for the rest of my life, but I won't remember a new refrigerator. So for me, it's worth it."
-------------
For me, I think it might be worth it too. I can't afford to race cars in real life, so I do all my racing on the PC, and invest quite a lot of time, thought, and a fair bit of money in it (if it wasn't for sim-racing, I don't think I'd ever buy a new PC, in fact).
I'm so enamored with the possibility of building one of these new (stripped), LCD panels into a large-format projector, in fact, that I'm finally considering buying a copy of Vista,* just so I can use the new drivers and glasses with it.
[*This is something I thought I would never consider until now, but I finally have a reason to want to build a Vista PC instead of a XP PC. I'll use it ONLY for simming/gaming, mind you (I use Linux for most everything else), so I can probably live with Microsoft spying on my every move (WGA)...but I still won't like it much.]
k
Keysplayr
Elite Member
There are wants, and there are needs. If you want a better computer (CPU, mobo, RAM, GPU, PSU) to make previously unplayable games playable, then you need to purchase these things. Doesn't matter what you get, as long as it makes your gaming experience satisfying. The hundreds of dollars spent on the games alone (average price per game is 45 bucks) is a fairly big expense if you add them all up. Now an opportunity to experience many of those games in an entirely new way presents itself. You have spent hundreds and hundreds on these games. Now there is a way to get more enjoyment and squeeze more of your money's worth out of them with Stereovision. Now, this is a want, and should be weighed accordingly by each individual. Suddenly, tons of games can be replayed with a whole new level of immersion, as well as new titles that come out. You have to decide if this is what you want, and if it's worth it to yourself.
Statements like this:
"And I doubt I would get $600 worth of enjoyment out of them compared to spending that $600 on something else in my life. "
can only be made by guessing. Creig doesn't know. How could he. He doesn't understand or have the faintest clue what it is like, and it's an Nvidia product to boot, so he'll shun it, as demonstrated, and says things like the above. And it's absolutely his right to misguide himself like that.
It's kind of why I was questioning the 600 dollars and how he is behaving like it's the only 600 dollars he will ever have again, and has to spend it the wisest way he possibly can.
Stereovision is cheap. "Already in my shopping cart, now for some overnight shipping!"
Stereovision is affordable. "This looks cool, maybe I can get this in a month or two."
Stereovision is too damn expensive. "All this stuff should be free!"
Which one are you?
The people who are now in the market for a new monitor, and are looking to upgrade from a 17, 18,19,20 and even CRT's may have the advantage of looking into this. If they were going to spend hundreds on a new LCD monitor, why not go for this 120MHz 3D montior?
And they don't have to purchase the glasses right away either. The expense could be spread out a bit, as many people often do to reduce the impact of the expense.
Everyone is different.
I think the key here is that this is a hard tech to discuss unless you've actually used it.
NVIDIA is also working with Hollywood on developing 3d versions of movies which can be watched through the glasses on the monitors or on big screen tvs with the Texas Instruments 3d chip.
Also, your in game screenshots can be viewed in 3d.
Hopefully stores like Best Buy will be setting up demo machines so more people make an educated choice about this. It's not something where you can just read the review and say "Hmm the framerate seems lower, I'd better avoid this".
Also, I have to wonder if any of the people who are knocking the lower framerates thought HDR+AA was "the thing to have" back when that launched. (not like that helped framerates, and I know for a fact it did do 1/1000th of what this does for immersion)
NVIDIA is also working with Hollywood on developing 3d versions of movies which can be watched through the glasses on the monitors or on big screen tvs with the Texas Instruments 3d chip.
Also, your in game screenshots can be viewed in 3d.
Hopefully stores like Best Buy will be setting up demo machines so more people make an educated choice about this. It's not something where you can just read the review and say "Hmm the framerate seems lower, I'd better avoid this".
Also, I have to wonder if any of the people who are knocking the lower framerates thought HDR+AA was "the thing to have" back when that launched. (not like that helped framerates, and I know for a fact it did do 1/1000th of what this does for immersion)
I benched the GTX295 with Left 4 Dead and UT3 this morning in stereovision, and have decided SLi and stereovision are pretty much made for each other. I had not tried this up until this point because a. with the pre-release drivers, GTX295/Vista 64/3dvision did not play nice (reminded me of some college...errr..."experiments"....) b. the GTX260Core216 was doing a good job so it wasn't at the top of my "to do" list.
In any case, obviously the GTX295 keeps 3dVision at a pretty steady 60fps at 16X10, play was lightning fast and silky smooth.
GTX295 + 3DVision benches
In any case, obviously the GTX295 keeps 3dVision at a pretty steady 60fps at 16X10, play was lightning fast and silky smooth.
GTX295 + 3DVision benches
apoppin
Lifer
Well you sure avoided my question
Are YOU *buying* the glasses and a 120hz LCD for yourself?
it it worth $600 to you .. right now?
- or it is too 'expensive' for you ?
i get sick of gimmicks and new half-launched tech .. and even watching 3D movies with the latest glasses are exhausting, if not instantly headache-inducing, as they used to be .. even the latest movies like they showed at Nvision; only the U2 concert was tolerable for me
i think perhaps one might take advantage of the 30-day money back satisfaction guarantees that some B&M retailers offer to truly know if one wants to LIVE with it - or not 😉
Keysplayr
Elite Member
Originally posted by: apoppin
Well you sure avoided my question
Are YOU *buying* the glasses and a 120hz LCD for yourself?
it it worth $600 to you .. right now?
- or it is too 'expensive' for you ?
i get sick of gimmicks and new half-launched tech .. and even watching 3D movies with the latest glasses are exhausting, if not instantly headache-inducing, as they used to be .. even the latest movies like they showed at Nvision; only the U2 concert was tolerable for me
i think perhaps one might take advantage of the 30-day money back satisfaction guarantees that some B&M retailers offer to truly know if one wants to LIVE with it - or not 😉
I'm sorry, but avoided a question? I believe this is the first time you have asked me if I will buy the monitor and glasses, is it not? Believe me Apoppin, you're not someone I need to avoid. If Nvidia does not send me a monitor and glasses to check out, I will most likely purchase them on my own. Becuause I can, or can just budget for them. But why would this ever concern you in a million years? I see no reason for you to ask this question as it pertains to only me. And I'm here speaking how everyone is different, and not singling anyone out as you appear to be doing. Is there a method to your madness? Or do you just think there is?
Let me know when you figure it out.
:camera::clock::heart::gift::lips::wine::sun:
apoppin
Lifer
i figured it out already and you confirmed it for me
.. thank-you .. your methods and agenda is all too clear
i asked you already - look back a few posts - and you did not reply .. i also asked you how you got to preview this tech if you did not get the HW sent to you
the reason i asked is to see if you felt it was worth $600 to you
- it is very pertinent IF you have experienced this tech
i have .. and i would not spend even $400 *extra* on it now .. but of course i would love to "play" with it .. mostly to see how long i could actually live with it - gaming 100% of the time - hours a day - with 3-D glasses; i simply cannot say
- i tend to think it falls in the category of "new gimmick" now .. like 3D movies which are still not very good after many more years of being in existance
.. for example, just because your movies are all ABLE to be watched in 3D does not mean you would want to 😛
.. thank-you .. your methods and agenda is all too clear
i asked you already - look back a few posts - and you did not reply .. i also asked you how you got to preview this tech if you did not get the HW sent to you
the reason i asked is to see if you felt it was worth $600 to you
- it is very pertinent IF you have experienced this tech
i have .. and i would not spend even $400 *extra* on it now .. but of course i would love to "play" with it .. mostly to see how long i could actually live with it - gaming 100% of the time - hours a day - with 3-D glasses; i simply cannot say
- i tend to think it falls in the category of "new gimmick" now .. like 3D movies which are still not very good after many more years of being in existance
.. for example, just because your movies are all ABLE to be watched in 3D does not mean you would want to 😛
SonicIce
Diamond Member
I love my eDimentional LCD shutter glasses. But I think nVidia isn't fixing the biggest of the problems that always plagued 3D. One of the biggest issues with LCD shutter glasses is one eye seeing a ghost of the image the other eye is supposed to see. I have rerason to beleive this will be worse on LCD monitors because they're not able to swap views fast enough.
Then theres the games. Every game needs a profile. I know the driver is supposed to work in any game but 80% of the time you need to tweak the frustum, backplane, screen depth, laser sight, separation, and convergance. It's a pain in the ass and in the old drivers if you messed it up there was no undo! Maybe they fixed that. The only way 3D is ever going to work in games is if all of the game developers design thier games with stereoscopic 3D in mind from the beginning.
Why do they cost $200? My eDimentional glasses were like $35. It's just a little box that syncs up to the vertical sync pin on the VGA connector and the glasses are just two solid black LCD's.
I think if they just get rid of the whole glasses idea 3D might catch on. Theres nothing new this time around. 3D has come and gone countless times over the last few decades. I'll give it a year before nVidia abandons the whole thing again.
Then theres the games. Every game needs a profile. I know the driver is supposed to work in any game but 80% of the time you need to tweak the frustum, backplane, screen depth, laser sight, separation, and convergance. It's a pain in the ass and in the old drivers if you messed it up there was no undo! Maybe they fixed that. The only way 3D is ever going to work in games is if all of the game developers design thier games with stereoscopic 3D in mind from the beginning.
Why do they cost $200? My eDimentional glasses were like $35. It's just a little box that syncs up to the vertical sync pin on the VGA connector and the glasses are just two solid black LCD's.
I think if they just get rid of the whole glasses idea 3D might catch on. Theres nothing new this time around. 3D has come and gone countless times over the last few decades. I'll give it a year before nVidia abandons the whole thing again.
If you're ready to get off your high horse, you could go back through my posts and see that I already own, and have used, technology that is identical to what Nvidia is offering today. The ELSA Revelator glasses work exactly the same. In fact, the only reason they wouldn't work in place of the current Nvidia glasses is that Nvidia has dropped driver support for them. I'm one of the few people here with long-term experience with these style glasses, so don't sit there with your Nvidia sponsored attitude and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about in an attempt to discredit my viewpoint. If anybody here is misguided, it's you and Rollo with your constant praise of anything and everything Nvidia related just to keep those freebies rolling in.
Once again you show who is really the misguided one here. Your last statement should read:
Stereovision is too damn expensive. "It needs to be cheaper before I'll consider purchasing it."
What's so wrong with saying that? Nvidia does have a history of pricing their products well above their cost to manufacture. $650 GTX280 ring a bell? It's my opinion that IR shutter glasses that sold for $80 ten years ago should be no more than $100 today, in my opinion. In fact, I think they should be even cheaper than that as the cost to produce the LCD lenses must surely have dropped since then. But I would probably spend up to $100 for them as long as I already had a compatible display and a fast enough Nvidia video card.
Well, right now 120Hz monitors are nearly twice as expensive as their 60Hz counterparts. That cost also has to factor the whole 3D stereovision package. So even if someone needs a new monitor anyhow, they'll have to spend $200 on the glasses, plus around $200 extra for the 120Hz capability. If you don't suffer any problems using a regular 60Hz LCD, then there's no reason to spend the extra money to get a 120Hz display unless you intend to purchase the Nvidia glasses as well. If you do decide to get the 120Hz monitor and the glasses, now you're still looking at $400 minimum, more if you need a video card as well. That's still a good chunk of change to enable a single gaming feature.
Once 120Hz monitors become mainstream and 60Hz sets are naturally phased out, then the price of admission for 3D stereoscopic gaming will drop. Not to mention that hopefully the cost of the glasses themselves will have dropped as well.
It's so nice to know that everybody is allowed their own opinion, except for me.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
"It's so nice to know that everybody is allowed their own opinion, except for me."
Everyone means everyone, Creig. That includes you. And by the way, why would I not be talking highly of Nvidia's offerings? They have excellent GPU's, CUDA, PhysX, and now Stereovision. They have pretty much always had great GPU's since the beginning, so whats not to like? CUDA, PhysX and Stereovision are new technologies introduced by NV in the past year. What has ATI done that's anywhere near this magnitude of accomplishment? You don't think for one instant that any of this is impressive? Why not?
Everyone means everyone, Creig. That includes you. And by the way, why would I not be talking highly of Nvidia's offerings? They have excellent GPU's, CUDA, PhysX, and now Stereovision. They have pretty much always had great GPU's since the beginning, so whats not to like? CUDA, PhysX and Stereovision are new technologies introduced by NV in the past year. What has ATI done that's anywhere near this magnitude of accomplishment? You don't think for one instant that any of this is impressive? Why not?
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