Nvidia Shield Console was and still is the only handheld gaming device in the world?

zaza

Member
Feb 11, 2015
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The Shield portable failed miserably in sales cause everyone was like "it's just a phone with a controller", which is true when you look at both the hardware specs and the software. But there's one thing everyone forgot to mention, one thing that set the shield apart from all other handheld gaming devices and phones, it has active cooling. Shield portable is the only handheld gaming console in existence to have a cooling fan. It's a cheap cooling fan that probably cost less than a dollar to put in the device, but the fact that it's there makes all the difference.
You can't play graphically intense games on any phone before it starts thermal throttling and the fps drops, some last 5 minutes some last 20, but they all throttle. I had an exynos galaxy s5 that would last no more than 1 minute with a game like Nova 3 before the fps went from 60 to 6. It has a supposedly powerful octacore CPU including one low-performance quad core at 1.3GHz and a high-performance quad core at 1.9Ghz. After a minute of gamelay all the high performance cores had been disabled as well as two of the low-performance cores, and the remaining two low-performance cores were running at 500MHz. The Mali GPU throttled from 530Mhz to 173.

Phone manufacfurers are all misleading. For example Qualcomm would advertize a super fast CPU that runs at 2.7 GHz when in reality it can only run at that speed for a few minutes. The heat builds up inside a plastic shell that is the phone and has nowhere to escape.

Apple seems to be the only one who's somewhat honest, they clock their CPU much lower than their competitors, like 1.4Ghz, their phones still throttle but less than others. So the real life performance you get with them is closer to the advertized speed, in contrast to Samsung and Qualcomm.

Nvidia shield is the only handheld device where instead of throttling and ruining your gaming experience it kicks the fan into action and maintains stable performance indefinitely. But it looks like nobody gave a shit.
 
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Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
22,043
875
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So, just use an app to maintain a slower CPU speed. Problem solved. And for the record, the shield failed because it sucked.
 

zaza

Member
Feb 11, 2015
130
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So, just use an app to maintain a slower CPU speed. Problem solved. And for the record, the shield failed because it sucked.
So run the game at 10 fps from the start instead of dropping from 60 to 10 over a few minutes?
Why didn't I think of that?
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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So, just use an app to maintain a slower CPU speed. Problem solved. And for the record, the shield failed because it sucked.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that the Shield handheld "sucked", but that it was a bit too niche. It also suffered from the same problem that all handhelds do -- it becomes outdated. Now, with phones, that's not necessarily the biggest problem, because most non-gaming apps still work fairly well regardless of whether your phone is a few years old or brand new. However, you aren't always that lucky with games. Newer, graphically intensive, 3D games may just not run well on older hardware or even run at all.

I think that the Vita has the same issue. It's pretty much a smartphone-like device with a built-in controller, but its hardware is becoming more and more dated. Now, you may ask, "What about the 3DS?" In some ways, I think Nintendo avoided it by not targeting the high-end to begin with.

Anyway, what's interesting is that the Shield Handheld actually has a decent second-hand market. I sold mine a few months ago for MSRP. Yes, I sold an old Android device that was outdated for MSRP. That's practically unheard of! D:
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Shield failed because it was incredibly awkward for a portable. They basically slapped a display on an Xbox controller.

They're starting to do things about dissipating heat on mobile devices more now. Some phones have heatpipes and there's some other things they've been working on (I think there's some Chinese OEM that was working on a sorta liquid cooling setup).

There's a lot of issues with mobile insofar as gaming, which is why anyone that actually wants to game on the go will use a laptop, tablet, or a dedicated gaming system like one of Nintendo's. Actually Nintendo has shown that graphics don't matter that much.
 

zaza

Member
Feb 11, 2015
130
1
0
Shield failed because it was incredibly awkward for a portable. They basically slapped a display on an Xbox controller.

They're starting to do things about dissipating heat on mobile devices more now. Some phones have heatpipes and there's some other things they've been working on (I think there's some Chinese OEM that was working on a sorta liquid cooling setup).

There's a lot of issues with mobile insofar as gaming, which is why anyone that actually wants to game on the go will use a laptop, tablet, or a dedicated gaming system like one of Nintendo's. Actually Nintendo has shown that graphics don't matter that much.
They don't evacuate the heat from the phone! Those heatpipes and liquid coolings only transfer the heat from hot parts of the phone to cold parts, but the heat stays inside the phone and builds up just like before. The only difference these heatpjpes can make is the performance will last 15 minutes instead of 10. The shield is the only handheld device on which you can game till the battery dies.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
So run the game at 10 fps from the start instead of dropping from 60 to 10 over a few minutes?

That isn't how it is though.

The problem with Android gaming is outside of the titles Nvidia pays to bring to the platform there isn't many really high end games. Most freemium Android games shoot for Tegra 2 or 3 levels of power in order to get as many players as possible. Even the more premium games don't use any more power than a Galaxy S4 has. Unlike in iOS there isn't this army of developers waiting to max out new hardware as soon as it hits. There probably isn't a single game on the Google Play Store that uses even 80% of the Shield Tablet's GPU power. That is why Nvidia had to push all the shadow play stuff.

So it isn't about running the game at 10 vs 60 fps. It is about the game running at 60 fps (yes even after GPU throttling due to heat) vs the game running at 300fps that is cut down to 60fps because of the cap on Android's refresh rate.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,846
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They don't evacuate the heat from the phone! Those heatpipes and liquid coolings only transfer the heat from hot parts of the phone to cold parts, but the heat stays inside the phone and builds up just like before. The only difference these heatpjpes can make is the performance will last 15 minutes instead of 10. The shield is the only handheld device on which you can game till the battery dies.

First, you really need to stop saying that as it's just plain wrong. I can play games on Nintendo handhelds fine. Pretty sure the PSP and Vita both can as well. I'm reasonably confident you could game quite well all the way through an iPad's battery life.

Dissipating the heat helps quite a bit. Yes a fan helps even more, but it adds to the size constraints which is a major issue for phones and smaller devices, and no one cares about phones throttling as they want them more for reasons other than gaming, which is why no one is bothering to address your concern. It's simply not worth it for the state that mobile platform gaming is at. And it's why, despite the rest of the hardware being good/fine, the Shield Portable failed. Because it just wasn't a great portable device as it focused its design around games when the platform wasn't ready for it. Even with the moves that Apple and Android have made for gaming it still isn't.

Actually even Nintendo is basically successful in spite of themselves. Their platform isn't great, they aren't the most developer friendly company, their hardware isn't great, but they have compelling games that make it worth it. Pretty much all of the good games for mobile platforms are available elsewhere, often with advantages over the mobile versions. There are some that make good use of the hardware but those aren't typically very in depth games.

The best hope you'd have is if Microsoft does a big push to turn Windows into a real gaming platform, leveraging a lot of the work put into Xbox, and enabling OEMs to make a variety of devices. Then maybe an updated version of the Shield Portable would make good sense.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
They don't evacuate the heat from the phone! Those heatpipes and liquid coolings only transfer the heat from hot parts of the phone to cold parts, but the heat stays inside the phone and builds up just like before. The only difference these heatpjpes can make is the performance will last 15 minutes instead of 10. The shield is the only handheld device on which you can game till the battery dies.

Wth are you talking about?
 

Zodiark1593

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2012
2,230
4
81
In lieu of active cooling, a dedicated handheld console will necessarily have to be less powerful than a smartphone to run at it's maximum speed until it dies.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,345
7,415
136
Wouldn't be terribly hard to build a case with its own fan designed to draw heat off the device. They've sold similar things for laptops for ages.

The Shield only existed because NVidia needed something to do with all of the Tegra chips that no one else wanted to buy.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
That isn't how it is though.

The problem with Android gaming is outside of the titles Nvidia pays to bring to the platform there isn't many really high end games. Most freemium Android games shoot for Tegra 2 or 3 levels of power in order to get as many players as possible. Even the more premium games don't use any more power than a Galaxy S4 has. Unlike in iOS there isn't this army of developers waiting to max out new hardware as soon as it hits. There probably isn't a single game on the Google Play Store that uses even 80% of the Shield Tablet's GPU power. That is why Nvidia had to push all the shadow play stuff.

So it isn't about running the game at 10 vs 60 fps. It is about the game running at 60 fps (yes even after GPU throttling due to heat) vs the game running at 300fps that is cut down to 60fps because of the cap on Android's refresh rate.

Android faces a double whammy of sheer hardware fragmentation and an general unwillingness of game devs push graphics for the platform. Rampant app piracy kills the market for AAA-esque games, the F2P ones need to reach as much potential audience for ad revenues and thus cannot afford to ignore low-end hardware, not to mention those devs won't have the budget to push graphics to begin with. Either way, the potential of high-end SoC simply goes to shit thanks to economics 101.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,832
37
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I game on this and its under $150. I haven't had any noticeable issues running Android games but I mostly play emulators and it even runs Dreamcast games. I got a 128 gig micro SD card on it full of old console roms.

7-Quad-Core-Game-Console-Player-tablet-pc-JXD-S7800B-S7800-gamepad-Android-4-4-4.jpg



However I don't think portable gaming these days is ever going to be like it once was with the old Gameboy's. People invest too much into their phones to bother plus they can opt to get bluetooth controllers or gamepads that attach to their phones.

Like these...there's just too many other options these days, including larger battery packs for longer gaming.

gamelip-555.jpg

logitech-MFi-game-controller-iphone-2.png

&

smart-phone-gaming-controller-300x250.jpg

GameCase-First-Game-Controller-for-iOS-7-Mobile-Platform-1.jpg
 
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poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
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Android faces a double whammy of sheer hardware fragmentation and an general unwillingness of game devs push graphics for the platform. Rampant app piracy kills the market for AAA-esque games, the F2P ones need to reach as much potential audience for ad revenues and thus cannot afford to ignore low-end hardware, not to mention those devs won't have the budget to push graphics to begin with. Either way, the potential of high-end SoC simply goes to shit thanks to economics 101.

I honestly don't see it completely as a bad thing. It simply devalues the GPU in the Android space, which is great in the year of the 810 vs the 808.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,310
687
126
There is no mobile SOC that do not throttle under load, including Apple's. The OP complains about the phone manufacturer's allegedly misleading advertisement tactics but s/he seems to be engaged in a similar conduct.

iPhone-6-charts.016.png


http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/09/iphone-6-and-6-plus-in-deep-with-apples-thinnest-phones/3/

Granted iPhone 6/6+ do quite a bit better than S800, but that was not always the case with the previous A-series SOCs. I reckon that other SOCs will pay more attention in this area in the future, especially after the S810 fiasco of this year.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
How dumb is this title?

Very. The answer is an emphatic NO.
I also wouldn't bother getting into a technical discussion OP. Post history suggests no such ability.

/thread
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,140
138
106
I played Modern Combat 5 on my S6 for about 4 hours before it gave me a low battery warning. Never got overly hot, and I didn't feel like it was throttling because the gameplay was smooth and fluid the whole time.. I don't think it was pushing 60 (gotta remember it's running at a native 2560x1440), but it had to be doing at least 40.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
Shield Portable was a great emulator device, at least as far as Android goes. It's a lot better than cheaper alternatives from JXD or GPD, or using an external controller with another Android device.

The total number of console emulator installations on Android have to be in the tens of millions, possibly over 100 million, but it seems most users are content with using touch controls for this. Something that IMO makes the whole thing unbearable.
 

Zodiark1593

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2012
2,230
4
81
Shield Portable was a great emulator device, at least as far as Android goes. It's a lot better than cheaper alternatives from JXD or GPD, or using an external controller with another Android device.

The total number of console emulator installations on Android have to be in the tens of millions, possibly over 100 million, but it seems most users are content with using touch controls for this. Something that IMO makes the whole thing unbearable.

Depends on the game. For your beloved old-school jrpg, touch controls work well enough.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
There are times when I consider an Android TV device just so I can use emulators on the TV.

Nexus Player was half off recently, and I was tempted. Maybe I'll see what Google has in store next week.
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
Did I wake up this morning in a world where the Game Boy never existed? 3DS, Vita, those are still things, right?

Does OP specifically refer to Android/IOS?