Nvidia says Goodbye to XFX

[n0x1ous]

I have been wondering about this since they announced they weren't releasing any Fermi cards. It was interesting then because they had product mock up's and pictures of their cards leading up to the launch of GF100 and then it never happened. The *hit must have hit the fan right before then.

But they still had 200 series Nvidia products up until this point.

Here's the article from Kyle

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2010/10/05/xfx_gets_boot_from_nvidia

They still have Nvidia products on their site.......

 

[thilanliyan]

Booo. So is this only for Europe?

 

[blastingcap]

I have been wondering about this since they announced they weren't releasing any Fermi cards. It was interesting then because they had product mock up's and pictures of their cards leading up to the launch of GF100 and then it never happened. The *hit must have hit the fan right before then.

But they still had 200 series Nvidia products up until this point.

Here's the article from Kyle

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2010/10/05/xfx_gets_boot_from_nvidia

They still have Nvidia products on their site.......

Article is ambiguous as to whether this affects only Europe or if it's worldwide, and for how long. Initial rumor was that XFX was banned from distributing Fermi cards but would be allowed back in the fold with the next generation of GPUs.

 

[n0x1ous]

It is interesting that this comes up again on the same day the news breaks on Nvidia's Best Buy situation....

 

[OCGuy]

It is interesting that this comes up again on the same day the news breaks on Nvidia's Best Buy situation....

 

[SickBeast]

Weren't BFG and XFX two of the biggest manufacturers for NV, along with EVGA?

This is looking worse and worse for NV. I really hope they don't go under. I suppose their IP will not be lost regardless, but we need competition in the discreet GPU market. It probably wouldn't take intel too long to release *something*, but it would take them years to come up with something competitive at the high end.

 

[blastingcap]

It probably wouldn't take intel too long to release *something*, but it would take them years to come up with something competitive at the high end.

If NV went under and 100s or 1000s of GPU-related engineers suddenly needed work, what makes you think that ATI would get all--or even most--of them? INTC isn't that far from NVDA; the employees wouldn't even have to sell their homes and move.

 

[SickBeast]

If NV went under and 100s or 1000s of GPU-related engineers suddenly needed work, what makes you think that ATI would get all--or even most--of them? INTC isn't that far from NVDA; the employees wouldn't even have to sell their homes and move.

That's quite possible, but it's not the same as getting all of NV's intellectual property. It would take intel some time to get things together, and then even once they did, it won't be the same as if NV had done it themselves.

I think that the doomsday scenarios are premature, but they are within the realm of possibility at this point, so discussing them is interesting.

 

[n0x1ous]

Weren't BFG and XFX two of the biggest manufacturers for NV, along with EVGA?

This is looking worse and worse for NV. I really hope they don't go under. I suppose their IP will not be lost regardless, but we need competition in the discreet GPU market. It probably wouldn't take intel too long to release *something*, but it would take them years to come up with something competitive at the high end.

No doubt, they were 2 pillars of the big 3 exclusive NV board partners. Though the article seems to point to Nv getting rid of XFX rather than XFX bailing on Nv.

Of course you could say XFX selling Radeon's was XFX doing the original bailing on NV.

Certainly with the way things are for NV right now, they must not have felt XFX was that important anymore. EVGA, Galaxy and themselves just get a bigger slice now.

 

[RussianSensation]

It's one thing for NV to move into the retail channel, but another to lose XFX which had transferable lifetime warranty. I hope XFX North America still has a deal with NV (but seems it's inevitably going to follow)

 

[bryanW1995]

nvidia has plenty of board partners. didn't you notice that galaxy is upping their warranty game now? they appear to be going after the #2 slot slot that bfg/xfx vacated. I wouldn't worry about nvidia as long as evga and/or galaxy remain in the fold, plus msi/asus/gb could definitely take up any slack created by another lost partner or 3.

added: @ russian: I don't know what galaxy did, but I did read somewhere that their warranty is much improved now. they are clearly getting strong treatment from nvidia now. xfx turned their back on nvidia when nvidia actually needed the support, nvidia isn't going to do them any favors going forward. having said all of that, let's wait until the fermi refresh and 28nm comes out before saying that xfx/nvidia are done for good. things can change pretty rapidly in this market as we all know.

 

[SickBeast]

It seems like every company that offers a lifetime warranty goes broke anyways. 3 years is plenty. I can replace my 2+ year old G80 card for under $60 at this point when certain cards go on sale. If my G80 died I wouldn't cry about it. I'd probably save $60 on my electric bill over the course of a year or two by using a modern low power card anyways.

 

[Axon]

Not shocking, given that XFX has become such a popular AMD partner. Wouldn't count them out forever, though - as we all know, when there's money to be made, hard feelings can be set aside.

 

[blastingcap]

Not shocking, given that XFX has become such a popular AMD partner. Wouldn't count them out forever, though - as we all know, when there's money to be made, hard feelings can be set aside.

Yeah, if JHH can change his mind and use GloFo anyway, anything can happen. Then again, he might change his mind AGAIN... anyway, point is that XFX might carry NV GPUs again in the future.

November 2009: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/...ys_No_to_Globalfoundries_Microprocessors.html

"Just months after confirming negotiations with Globalfoundries, semiconductor joint-venture between Advanced Micro Devices and Advanced Technology Investment Company, chief executive officer of Nvidia said that the company had no plans to outsource part of its manufacturing to the contract maker of chips.

“Globalfoundries is an AMD fab, right? Globalfoundries is AMD's fab. Our strategy is TSMC,” said Jen-Hsun Huang, chief exec of Nvidia, in an interview with Cnet News web-site.

Earlier this year Mr. Huang said that Globalfoundries was a leading silicon foundry with “advanced and outstanding process technology” and Nvidia was “seriously evaluating and discussing” the possibilities of working with them."

September 2010: http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/09/21/nvidia-signs-global-foundries/

"After a year or so of negotiations, it looks like Nvidia has finally signed with Global Foundries. The deal is still somewhat shaded in mystery, but it is unlikely to be for GPUs, sources say it is almost assuredly for Tegra and other ARM based chips."

 

[OCGuy]

Weren't BFG and XFX two of the biggest manufacturers for NV, along with EVGA?

This is looking worse and worse for NV. I really hope they don't go under. I suppose their IP will not be lost regardless, but we need competition in the discreet GPU market. It probably wouldn't take intel too long to release *something*, but it would take them years to come up with something competitive at the high end.

Again, I am sure nV is just throwing in the towel here. What will they do without XFX?

Its almost as if they don't have a plan....a direction....as if they know all hope is lost (even though they are still shipping 50% of discreet cards). Like an animal that goes off to die...

http://www.vizworld.com/2010/09/nvidia-product-roadmap-fermi-kepler-maxwell/

If AMD can survive putting out CPUs that are two generations behind, as well as the 3XXX v G80/G92 debacle, nV will survive not having the top single GPU again for a few months.

The "Doom and Gloom" crowd is more hopeful than factual. If the 6XXX gains arent substantial on the first supposed new architecture since 3XXX, then they might be in trouble a year from now. Who knows? Not us.

 

[dzoner]

Not shocking, given that XFX has become such a popular AMD partner. Wouldn't count them out forever, though - as we all know, when there's money to be made, hard feelings can be set aside.

There is no future for Nvidia in the consumer graphics business.

Maybe they'll hang on for a few years, maybe not. Fusion will eating up the chain of their bread and butter oem markets, 6xxx and 7xxx will keep their profits in the mid and high end pared to the bone, even if they kill off their AIBs and start selling their own boards. Nvidia saw this coming years ago. There's a reason JHH closed his eyes and rolled the dice on Fermi, a new, massive and complex architecture on a new, troubled 40nm process. A massive gamble that crapped out. That means he didn't win his bet.

It is what it is, Nvidia has no future in the x86 hardware market. In seven years there will be a pure Intel APU ecosystem and a pure AMD APU ecosystem. Long before then it will have become economically infeasible for Ndivia to continue to compete in that market.

 

[dzoner]

If AMD can survive putting out CPUs that are two generations behind, as well as the 3XXX v G80/G92 debacle, nV will survive not having the top single GPU again for a few months.

The "Doom and Gloom" crowd is more hopeful than factual. If the 6XXX gains arent substantial on the first supposed new architecture since 3XXX, then they might be in trouble a year from now. Who knows? Not us.

Whistling past the graveyard. The future for Intel and AMD is APUs. That's FACT. That's a MASSIVE paradigm shift in the computer processor market. Past rules of thumb no longer apply. THE GPU MARKET IS GOING TO DISAPPEAR starting next year with the low end oem and retail cards.

Lordy, it's REALITY. It doesn't have to be 'good', it doesn't have to be 'bad', it just has to be what it *IS*.

 

[OCGuy]

Whistling past the graveyard. The future for Intel and AMD is APUs. That's FACT. That's a MASSIVE paradigm shift in the computer processor market. Past rules of thumb no longer apply. THE GPU MARKET IS GOING TO DISAPPEAR starting next year with the low end oem and retail cards.

Lordy, it's REALITY. It doesn't have to be 'good', it doesn't have to be 'bad', it just has to be what it *IS*.

Chipmaker says "best days" are ahead for graphics cards

AMD has said it plans to continue GPU development after its Fusion range of combined CPU/GPU chips appear.

Writing on the AMD blog, AMD client technology unit director Godfrey Cheng wrote "I believe that the best days of the GPU are ahead of it," before citing new Mercury research indicating that the Intel and Nvidia competitor is now the market leader in discreet graphics and stating that the company intends to expand the lead further.

http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/34201/AMD-says-future-of-GPUs-is-secure


I don't know what kind of real graphics computing Sandy/Fusion and their successors are going to be able to do. I can barely get the graphics performance I want out of the 2 current-gen cards I have. (480, 5850).

Intel already owns the majority of the graphics market. They will gain some more with SB. But nV isnt going anywhere, and AMD didnt acquire ATi just to kill it off.

 

[thilanliyan]

@dzoner
There will still be the discrete market but I'm not sure how much of profit that accounts for.

 

[Will Robinson]

I don't know what kind of real graphics computing Sandy/Fusion and their successors are going to be able to do.

Most likely they are going to do the mainstream console market.
High end GPUs will still be there for PC gaming but console level graphics on your mainboard processor makes for a much cheaper alternative than a new XBox or Wii.
It probably will only take a few years.

 

[FalseChristian]

The developers of Crysis said that their engine will be the top standard for years to come. What happens when AMD and nVidia put out a GPU that gets 400 fps in Crysis at 2560x1600 with 8xaa and 16xAF? GPUs will then become redundant and new GPUs will not come out. We may not see this scenario for a few years but it's inevitable. Will you buy a GPU that gets 1000 fps in Crysis when you already have one that gets 400? I doubt it.

 

[ArchAngel777]

The developers of Crysis said that their engine will be the top standard for years to come. What happens when AMD and nVidia put out a GPU that gets 400 fps in Crysis at 2560x1600 with 8xaa and 16xAF? GPUs will then become redundant and new GPUs will not come out. We may not see this scenario for a few years but it's inevitable. Will you buy a GPU that gets 1000 fps in Crysis when you already have one that gets 400? I doubt it.

You seriously do not believe this, do you? Do I even comment that engine development does not remain static? Or that the current Cry Engine is capable of being tweaked to the point of bringing even a Tri SLI down to single digit fps? What makes you think that today's graphics are as good as they will ever get and that there will not be a continuing need for more graphics power?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Again, I am sure nV is just throwing in the towel here. What will they do without XFX?

Its almost as if they don't have a plan....a direction....as if they know all hope is lost (even though they are still shipping 50% of discreet cards). Like an animal that goes off to die...

http://www.vizworld.com/2010/09/nvidia-product-roadmap-fermi-kepler-maxwell/

If AMD can survive putting out CPUs that are two generations behind, as well as the 3XXX v G80/G92 debacle, nV will survive not having the top single GPU again for a few months.

The "Doom and Gloom" crowd is more hopeful than factual. If the 6XXX gains arent substantial on the first supposed new architecture since 3XXX, then they might be in trouble a year from now. Who knows? Not us.

I also think the stories of Nvidia's upcoming demise are exaggerated. But, there are some differences between AMD in the 2xxx and 38xx days vs. Nvidia's 8xxx/9xxx cards.

Back when the 2xxx and 3xxxx were sucking it up, Nvidia practically took a generation off. They felt moving from the fantastic 8xxx cards to the 9xxx cards needed to be nothing more than a sticker change. They gave AMD room. Rumor has it that AMD has already handily outsold Nvidia this generation, and looks like they might have their next gen parts coming out before Nvidia could even get their entire Fermi line up out. AMD isn't rebadging the 5xxx cards and calling it a day. They're moving forward while it seems Nvidia is still treading water.

Nvidia released a chip that's about as big as it can go and about as power hungry as it can go on the current technology. AMD's smaller chip seems to have given them room to move forward on the same process. I'm not saying Nvidia can't do the same, but it seems like they don't have as much flexibility. Combine that with Tegra's lack of sales and Nvidia's chipset business dwindling, there are some reasons for concern.

Again, I don't think they're going anywhere, but they have some real challenges that are different than AMD's situation in the 29xx/38xx days. I think Nvidia knows this, that's why we see them pushing CUDA and the HPC market so hard. While gaming cards may not make them profit like professional parts, it still makes them a lot of revenue, money they use for R&D so they can build these fantastic GPU's. While I don't think they're going out of business, I do think in five years the GPU market is going to look a lot different than it does now.

 

[Lonyo]

The developers of Crysis said that their engine will be the top standard for years to come. What happens when AMD and nVidia put out a GPU that gets 400 fps in Crysis at 2560x1600 with 8xaa and 16xAF? GPUs will then become redundant and new GPUs will not come out. We may not see this scenario for a few years but it's inevitable. Will you buy a GPU that gets 1000 fps in Crysis when you already have one that gets 400? I doubt it.

Crysis is already 3 years old. Give it another 2 before the next gen consoles come, that's 5 years at the top. That's quite a while.

 

[BenSkywalker]

This is looking worse and worse for NV. I really hope they don't go under.

At nV's current cash burn rate they could not sell anything at all and still be sitting on more cash then AMD come 2012.

I'm not saying Nvidia can't do the same, but it seems like they don't have as much flexibility.

Billions of dollars in cash can give you all sorts of flexibility, particularly for a company as relatively small as nV.

In the fantasy world of anti nV rhetoric, it appears that it is indeed a dire situation. In the real world, nVidia has about enough cash to buy 1/2 of AMD outright at the moment(they also have a ~$2Billion dollar edge in market capitalization). People on these forums like to look at benchmark charts and think they auto translate into business stability- the 3dfx loyalists saw their triumph over nV looming until the week they went bankrupt.

If you want to compare how the players are doing as companies, I suggest spending a lot more time combing over financials and a whole lot less time looking at benchmark charts.