Nvidia ,Rtx2080ti,2080,2070, information thread. Reviews and prices September 14.

[realibrad]

I have to wonder if these cards will command MSRP for long. Clearly they are trying to capture more of the mining craze profits rather than letting the retailers gouge like crazy. With mining dieing down for the moment we can hope these will be discounted to where they should have been priced in a few months.

I disagree. I think they are trying to price these well above the current cards to help clear out inventory. They want to price these higher so they do not compete with their other price segments while still selling new chips until they pump out the 7nm chips

 

[Midwayman]

I disagree. I think they are trying to price these well above the current cards to help clear out inventory. They want to price these higher so they do not compete with their other price segments while still selling new chips until they pump out the 7nm chips

If that were the case it would be far easier to sit on the new release for a couple more months. I'll agree they don't seem competitive with Pascal at least.

 

[Malogeek]

Something like this would be the reference card

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=n82e16814500436

It's $50 above MSRP which isn't too bad during silly preorder period.

 

[moonbogg]

If that were the case it would be far easier to sit on the new release for a couple more months. I'll agree they don't seem competitive with Pascal at least.

A lot of people may have been waiting for the new cards to come out. Now that they're out and so expensive that only Jensen can afford one, maybe a lot of people will give up on the new stuff and buy a Pascal card. The good news is 1080Ti's are in stock and below MSRP in many cases. I saw some for $660. I'd expect a lot of X70 buyers to grab a 1070 or 1070Ti now that they realize their upgrade was priced at a hilarious $600. Like seriously, milk through the nose funny these prices are.

People holding out for the new cards now have two choices; buy a Pascal card or wait another year to see what happens. I guess they could always just buy a 2000 series, lol. I feel like such a cruel bastard even suggesting that's an option. Its like suggesting that people have the "option" to drink bleach or something. Just doesn't feel right saying it.

 

[realibrad]

If that were the case it would be far easier to sit on the new release for a couple more months. I'll agree they don't seem competitive with Pascal at least.

Why do that when you can release a new product that grows a new technology that you hope to dominate? You get sales from a segment that is not price sensitive, you continue to sell to a segment that is with the older products that now look more appealing. You clear out inventory and make your partners that bought a bunch of your old stuff happy.

 

[sze5003]

This guy says he was at one of the events and he say bf V with rtx on with what seemed like 1440p and fps was above 100..

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/com...80ti_performance_i_was_at_the_event/?sort=new

If I want to go to a 4k monitor what type of refresh rates are out there right now? Just dont know if it would be worth it over 1440p yet.

 

[Dribble]

No, FE came with 1000 series GPUs. Before, it was just a reference card. The "Founder's Edition" became the reason for the modern pricing problem. Reference cards were on the lowest range of pricing, and they were MSRP. With FE, they introduced a fancy name, but made it $100 higher than MSRP. That meant now a crappier cooler/circuitry reference edition was at the very high end of its pricing. And AIBs knowing this, rarely, if ever price it at MSRP. Why should they when the reference card(Oh, sorry, "Founder's Edition") cost $100 more than the so-called MSRP?.

But it wasn't crappier - it was in fact more reliable. The clocks/circuitry/etc were designed to make a very reliable reference card. The cooling design was so you could use it Sli easily. The reason being the FE is meant for Dell/etc to stick in machines and never go wrong so they don't have to waste money doing warranty fixes. Combine that with a card that is guaranteed to be available for the lifetime of the product so you only have to evaluate it once and you have a winner (as far as Dell is concerned).

The same is true for the 20 series, the founders edition is still meant for PC building companies not you or I. It will have been redesigned according to their needs which were probably "Sli no longer so important", "make it quieter", and "I want to be able to stick o/c'd on the label" while still staying as reliable as the previous one.

Us hobby builders are going to go for 3rd party designs not FE.

 

[maddie]

I disagree. I think they are trying to price these well above the current cards to help clear out inventory. They want to price these higher so they do not compete with their other price segments while still selling new chips until they pump out the 7nm chips

A case can be made for this.

How many would have bought Pascal cards knowing that the next gen would be out soon, and at what most assumed, would be a small price premium at worse. This price shock has us recommending Pascal. Imagine that.

Very high prices relative to the previous generation. The jump is the highest ever, if I'm not mistaken.
A surprising, based on history, reluctance to release unequivocal performance information.
No cards shipping for a least a month.
Dropping prices on older stock.

Problems can arise however,in the very same high prices, as they will kill sales. In each price bracket, there will be consumers who reject the "If not us, then who" argument that Nvidia is basically using. On the other hand, if they drop the price too soon as old stock is cleared, then you get a lot of angry early adopters. Very risky.

 

[realibrad]

A case can be made for this.

How many would have bought Pascal cards knowing that the next gen would be out soon, and at what most assumed, would be a small price premium at worse. This price shock has us recommending Pascal. Imagine that.

Very high prices relative to the previous generation. The jump is the highest ever, if I'm not mistaken.
A surprising, based on history, reluctance to release unequivocal performance information.
No cards shipping for a least a month.
Dropping prices on older stock.

Problems can arise however,in the very same high prices, as they will kill sales. In each price bracket, there will be consumers who reject the "If not us, then who" argument that Nvidia is basically using. On the other hand, if they drop the price too soon as old stock is cleared, then you get a lot of angry early adopters. Very risky.

The high prices are because they want this to not be a huge volume product. Get Ray Tracing out there, grow that technology, and when 7nm comes you have a huge perf jump. Anyone with a 1080ti will suddenly be low end, not have RT.

The risk is also reduced because they are not only the market leader, but effectively the only option mid-range and above now. As the current cards shift down, AMD will have nothing.

This also positions them very well for a while against Intel. Intel is pointing a huge gun at Nvidia right now in hopes of eating some of that GPU cake. Intel has deep pockets that are going to help in ways that AMD never had. Buy some IP, build your own and then go for it.

But, in the short run, Nvidia is positioned well against everyone.

 

[MrTeal]

I disagree. I think they are trying to price these well above the current cards to help clear out inventory. They want to price these higher so they do not compete with their other price segments while still selling new chips until they pump out the 7nm chips

If that's their hope, they better pray the slide in crypto prices doesn't continue. I haven't been following much, but profitability calculators are saying that someone with four 1080Tis and $0.05/kWh are only clearing a couple bucks a day. If the bleeding continues they might be in a situation similar to AMD had a few years ago where they're trying to launch a new gen but competing against their own massively discounted previous gen cards flooding the used market.

 

[USER8000]

So just like Vega launch, I will be taking screenshots and showing them to the know it all crowd who just like to baselessly crap on any Turing news for no good reason except AdoredTV and AMD friendlies said so.

So he is attacking his own viewership and readership now?? So he went and saw some figures from Nvidia and took them as 100% totally believable before he tested the cards.

No other website who saw the briefings mentioned anything,so he deffo got permission to break NDA on that one.

Also,I saw this mentioned elsewhere:

So on the launch day he was telling people to "you need an RTX2080TI" on a trip paid for him by Nvidia.

Also,if the cards are 40% to 60% faster SKU to SKU,they cost nearly the same extra in cost over the previous generation.

If things went like that in a couple of years a top tier gaming card would cost a few grand. But I assume for dorks on a forum,that is acceptable just like all those people on social media who will spend $10s of 1000s on plastic surgery to look like a celeb.

 

[HurleyBird]

As far as a new much more powerful card in 6 months, dream on. IMO there is about ZERO chance of that happening. Exactly who are they in a hurry to beat? Chip designs cost close to a hundred Million dollars these days, so companies want to amortize/milk them as long as possible, with 18-24 months in the norm in recent years for top GPUs. The aren't going to suddenly shift from a two year cadence to 6 months. That is nonsensical.

6 months? Yeah, very little chance. But make no mistake, this will almost certainly be a very short generation. They're releasing 12nm cards when 7nm is already available, and the ray tracing stuff, while absolutely freaking awesome, looks like it's too slow to be all that useful. I do expect performance to increase a bit by the time games are released, but the 2080 Ti struggling at 1080p is not a good sign. Even with lack of competition, there are plenty of internal reasons for a 7nm refresh relatively soon. It's not like Nvidia prefers selling huge dies bloated with ray tracing hardware of questionable usability for early adopters in the consumer space. And ray tracing works as the enormous game changer and killer feature it should be only if it's performant enough to actually use. Ideally for Nvidia, they should get to that spot before AMD produces a card with its own similar ray tracing features.

 

[sze5003]

So he is attacking his own viewership and readership now?? So he went and saw some figures from Nvidia and took them as 100% totally believable before he tested the cards.

No other website who saw the briefings mentioned anything,so he deffo got permission to break NDA on that one.

Also,I saw this mentioned elsewhere:

So on the launch day he was telling people to "you need an RTX2080TI" on a trip paid for him by Nvidia.

Also,if the cards are 40% to 60% faster SKU to SKU,they cost nearly the same extra in cost over the previous generation.

If things went like that in a couple of years a top tier gaming card would cost a few grand. But I assume for dorks on a forum,that is acceptable just like all those people on social media who will spend $10s of 1000s on plastic surgery to look like a celeb.

I've heard these guys are very pro Nvidia in general and that they got these cards handed to them free so of course they will say you need it. They can't say anything objective really or it would be bad business for the future.

I can't wait for actual third party reviews.

 

[moonbogg]

This guy says he was at one of the events and he say bf V with rtx on with what seemed like 1440p and fps was above 100..

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/com...80ti_performance_i_was_at_the_event/?sort=new

If I want to go to a 4k monitor what type of refresh rates are out there right now? Just dont know if it would be worth it over 1440p yet.

If it performs at 1440p, 100fps with raytracing, then honestly that can only be a great thing. It means 7nm GPU's will be just that much better. The prices kill the cards though. It doesn't matter how well they perform IMO. There's nothing they could do to justify the price for me. It plays games. It's not worth it. I'd have to have disposable income just laying around everywhere to justify that. Buying this card means my cats already sleep on a bed of hundred dollar bills. Right now they are making due with twenty's.

Regarding 4K, you really only have two monitors at 144hz. They are $2000 and have HDR tech. Would go nice with raytracing. Better get two 2080Ti's though because you'll need the power.

 

[sze5003]

If it performs at 1440p, 100fps with raytracing, then honestly that can only be a great thing. It means 7nm GPU's will be just that much better. The prices kill the cards though. It doesn't matter how well they perform IMO. There's nothing they could do to justify the price for me. It plays games. It's not worth it. I'd have to have disposable income just laying around everywhere to justify that. Buying this card means my cats already sleep on a bed of hundred dollar bills. Right now they are making due with twenty's.

Regarding 4K, you really only have two monitors at 144hz. They are $2000 and have HDR tech. Would go nice with raytracing. Better get two 2080Ti's though because you'll need the power.

Considering rtx isn't fully fleshed out I think these cards should have been $899 and that's FE price. Because FE pricing has been used as bait and switch from their MSRP price lately. But now every aftermarket and AIB partner will start off at $1199 +/- $50.

I'm with you that it's expensive and what I'm waiting for is reviews for sure. I could just upgrade to a 4k 60hz monitor now and keep my 1080ti if performance isn't as great on the 2080ti. I only want to go to 4k if performance is substantially better but then what's the point if I'm not willing to spend 2k for the 100hz.

 

[maddie]

If it performs at 1440p, 100fps with raytracing, then honestly that can only be a great thing. It means 7nm GPU's will be just that much better. The prices kill the cards though. It doesn't matter how well they perform IMO. There's nothing they could do to justify the price for me. It plays games. It's not worth it. I'd have to have disposable income just laying around everywhere to justify that. Buying this card means my cats already sleep on a bed of hundred dollar bills. Right now they are making due with twenty's.

Regarding 4K, you really only have two monitors at 144hz. They are $2000 and have HDR tech. Would go nice with raytracing. Better get two 2080Ti's though because you'll need the power.

Things have worked out super. Going from stealing their food to bedding them on cash. Well done.

 

[PeterScott]

6 months? Yeah, very little chance. But make no mistake, this will almost certainly be a very short generation. They're releasing 12nm cards when 7nm is already available, and the ray tracing stuff, while absolutely freaking awesome, looks like it's too slow to be all that useful. I do expect performance to increase a bit by the time games are released, but the 2080 Ti struggling at 1080p is not a good sign. Even with lack of competition, there are plenty of internal reasons for a 7nm refresh relatively soon. It's not like Nvidia prefers selling huge dies bloated with ray tracing hardware of questionable usability for early adopters in the consumer space. And ray tracing works as the enormous game changer and killer feature it should be only if it's performant enough to actually use. Ideally for Nvidia, they should get to that spot before AMD produces a card with its own similar ray tracing features.

I bet you won't see a new 3000 series for 1.5 years. IOW the shorter of recent release schedules.

Though they could have 7nm models slip into the 2000 series later next year, but I wouldn't expect anything in 2019 to substantially surpass 2080Ti performance. They might just start 7nm at 2050 level. A super small die to test the 7nm waters before embarking on a serious performance uplift for early 2020.

I am betting 3000 series will be a Feb/March 2020 release. By then 7nm will have the bugs worked out, and yields up for bigger dies, to make a serious performance uplift.

 

[wanderica]

So he is attacking his own viewership and readership now?? So he went and saw some figures from Nvidia and took them as 100% totally believable before he tested the cards.

No other website who saw the briefings mentioned anything,so he deffo got permission to break NDA on that one.

Also,I saw this mentioned elsewhere:

So on the launch day he was telling people to "you need an RTX2080TI" on a trip paid for him by Nvidia.

Also,if the cards are 40% to 60% faster SKU to SKU,they cost nearly the same extra in cost over the previous generation.

If things went like that in a couple of years a top tier gaming card would cost a few grand. But I assume for dorks on a forum,that is acceptable just like all those people on social media who will spend $10s of 1000s on plastic surgery to look like a celeb.

He also said "RTX 2070 ($499) is higher performance than Titan Xp ($1199) Wow!" It reads like an advertisement, for crying out loud. Maybe he just got swept up in the hype, but as an independent reviewer, I expect better. I can understand Nvidia saying things like that. It's their product, and they want us to buy it, but I thought better of Hardware Canucks than that.

This whole thing has exploded into ridiculous. As a bored night shift employee, I get lots of tech drama to read through, I suppose, but actual reviews can't come fast enough. The new tech looks amazing, but I'm not paying $1200 based on only a salesman's promise. That's a bad purchase for any product, let alone a product in something as cutthroat as the tech industry. I guess we'll see, but something tells me I'll, personally, want to wait until 7nm to replace my 1080Ti.

 

[PeterScott]

He also said "RTX 2070 ($499) is higher performance than Titan Xp ($1199) Wow!" It reads like an advertisement, for crying out loud. Maybe he just got swept up in the hype, but as an independent reviewer, I expect better. I can understand Nvidia saying things like that. It's their product, and they want us to buy it, but I thought better of Hardware Canucks than that.

That is pretty much what JH said, word for word during the keynote. But Context is important. In a show focused on Ray Tracing, he said that right around when he showed the slide on comparative 2000 vs 1000 family performance, but that slide was RTX OP performance.

It would be a Wow! if it was actually true in the general case for all games, but I am pretty sure that it was only about very specific cases, likely just RT.

Hence the need for independent reviews to get to the heart of performance in current games.

 

[moonbogg]

I guess we'll see, but something tells me I'll, personally, want to wait until 7nm to replace my 1080Ti.

Oh for sure it's 7nm for me. No way am I buying anything else at 16/12nm anyways, not with 7nm so close. Even if prices were normal, I'd personally still pass up the 20-30% increase. There's no "wow" factor in that for me. I want more than that, because less is just boring.

Considering rtx isn't fully fleshed out I think these cards should have been $899 and that's FE price. Because FE pricing has been used as bait and switch from their MSRP price lately. But now every aftermarket and AIB partner will start off at $1199 +/- $50.

I'm with you that it's expensive and what I'm waiting for is reviews for sure. I could just upgrade to a 4k 60hz monitor now and keep my 1080ti if performance isn't as great on the 2080ti. I only want to go to 4k if performance is substantially better but then what's the point if I'm not willing to spend 2k for the 100hz.

I'm sure you've considered the 3440x1440 ultra wide monitors. I love mine so much I had to make sure you thought about them. They have 100-120hz these days. There are HDR versions at 200hz (VA panel though) supposed to come out in Q4 this year, so maybe watch for those, but I wouldn't hold my breath for them. They've been delayed forever and will certainly be very expensive as well, so not sure if it's worth the wait. Justifying a high price for a monitor is easier for me personally than for a GPU, but at $2000 my eyes start to roll pretty hard. You can get a badass ultra wide for half that cost right now.

 

[RichUK]

Maybe the pricing strategy is a ploy to get people to buy up the remaining pascal chips before then dropping the price of Turing.

 

[alcoholbob]

But it wasn't crappier - it was in fact more reliable. The clocks/circuitry/etc were designed to make a very reliable reference card. The cooling design was so you could use it Sli easily. The reason being the FE is meant for Dell/etc to stick in machines and never go wrong so they don't have to waste money doing warranty fixes. Combine that with a card that is guaranteed to be available for the lifetime of the product so you only have to evaluate it once and you have a winner (as far as Dell is concerned).

The same is true for the 20 series, the founders edition is still meant for PC building companies not you or I. It will have been redesigned according to their needs which were probably "Sli no longer so important", "make it quieter", and "I want to be able to stick o/c'd on the label" while still staying as reliable as the previous one.

Us hobby builders are going to go for 3rd party designs not FE.

The question is this a new type of dual fan blower or is it an open air reference card? Because if its the latter it won't work too well with OEM designs, especially cramped small mid-towers or smaller boxes.

 

[sze5003]

Oh for sure it's 7nm for me. No way am I buying anything else at 16/12nm anyways, not with 7nm so close. Even if prices were normal, I'd personally still pass up the 20-30% increase. There's no "wow" factor in that for me. I want more than that, because less is just boring.



I'm sure you've considered the 3440x1440 ultra wide monitors. I love mine so much I had to make sure you thought about them. They have 100-120hz these days. There are HDR versions at 200hz (VA panel though) supposed to come out in Q4 this year, so maybe watch for those, but I wouldn't hold my breath for them. They've been delayed forever and will certainly be very expensive as well, so not sure if it's worth the wait. Justifying a high price for a monitor is easier for me personally than for a GPU, but at $2000 my eyes start to roll pretty hard. You can get a badass ultra wide for half that cost right now.

I've seen them but I'd have to get like a 34 inch model and I dunno if that will fit on my desk nicely. Or at least a 32 but I've been used to the 27 inch I have now. I'll have to look around so more which I hate doing.

 

[moonbogg]

Maybe the pricing strategy is a ploy to get people to buy up the remaining pascal chips before then dropping the price of Turing.

It would be awesome if Nvidia dropped the prices 50% across the board about 1 week after everyone received their preorders. Call me evil, but I'd be in heaven if that happened. I'd be like, "That'll teach 'em not to preorder this overpriced garbage!"

 

[PeterScott]

The question is this a new type of dual fan blower or is it an open air reference card? Because if its the latter it won't work too well with OEM designs, especially cramped small mid-towers or smaller boxes.

Looking at the teardown of the dual fan founders edition, the fins run the wrong direction to blow air out of the case. So it will nearly all exhaust inside the case.

I really prefer the blower concept. I wish more effort was made to make better blower cards. Or half and half cards with dual fans, where the back fan blows out of the case, while the front exhaust into the case. Exhausting heat out of the case is a very sound concept.