Nvidia ,Rtx2080ti,2080,2070, information thread. Reviews and prices September 14.

[ub4ty]

If it has 18.6 billion transistors and isn't much faster than the 1080 Ti then they've done something wrong. I'm expecting at least 25% faster, probably closer to 35%. That's obviously not worth the price but that has never stopped people in the past.

Meme learning cores and raytracing cores appear to take up 1/3rd or more of the die. So, that's where it all went.

 

[majord]

If it has 18.6 billion transistors and isn't much faster than the 1080 Ti then they've done something wrong. I'm expecting at least 25% faster, probably closer to 35%. That's obviously not worth the price but that has never stopped people in the past.

Tensor and RT cores do nothing for legacy performance but take up half the transistor budget

 

[DaveSimmons]

Tensor and RT cores do nothing for legacy performance but take up half the transistor budget

I was thinking of replacing my 980 ti this fall or winter, but "hardware PhysX all over again" in place of useful gaming performance gains does not excite me at all.

 

[PeterScott]

Tensor and RT cores do nothing for legacy performance but take up half the transistor budget

I don't think boxes drawn in the presentations were meant to represent die area. Just that the functionality was present, so we don't know how much transistor budget is devoted to each function. We have no idea what the RT HW is at all.

But if someone has definitive info on that, I would love to see it.

 

[gdansk]

Meme learning cores and raytracing cores appear to take up 1/3rd or more of the die. So, that's where it all went.

Meme learning is pretty cool, potentially useless for a gaming card though.

Tensor and RT cores do nothing for legacy performance but take up half the transistor budget

I suppose that's true, but it can't take up half the transistors: it still has more FLOPs with about 50% more transistors.

 

[ub4ty]

All comes down to performance and game support for me. My 1080 is completely fine at 1440p for every game as far as i can tell -- I don't mind turning down a few settings that make ~1% of a visual difference.

If Ray Tracing is the real deal, and the 2070/2080 really crush it then I'll be upgrading. Not interested in more performance in current games, as they've all looked the same for 5 years.

And Nvidia isn't pricing anyone out of anything -- they'll be a 2060, 2050, 2030. Does not matter if the top end 2080TI is a million dollars. Its not about your e-peen -- its about the games.

Nvidia's gotta find a new market and its struggling to do so.
They tried to charge a super premium for meme-learning cores which are nothing but a string of ALUs.
They then dropped an already proven ray core pipeline in which is a string of simple ALUs.

If they wanted to change the nature of gaming big league, they would have went full court press on launch.
Instead, we get this weak spirited presentation almost praying for somebody to come up with a use case to validate the cards... and then comes the pricing which says loudly : Our new segment for the consumer is the old quadro pricing and we've went enterprise pricing on our quadro line.

This is straight out of intel's handbook and begging for AMD to absolutely pummel them. If AMD launches correctly at a sound price point, Nvidia could very well be finished in 2019 and that extends into meme-learning and other premium segments as well. AMD is already on HBM 2.0 memory and these guys deliver on GDDR6 and limousine pricing. I had a 2080 in my cart with my CC info typed in. My intention was to resell this for a profit on fleebay. Then it hit me : what if I can't get a price above profitability on this card after fees? I truly felt like there would be no problem with inventory come September. There's nothing that excites me about the card.. $800. That's double what I paid for a 1070. This is literally what 1080s were going for at peak crypto mania on fleebay. They literally locked in the criminal prices people were forced to pay during the peak crypto mining mania .. Almost attempting to assure shareholders they could preserve the profit margins premiums they received in a prior quarter.

This has long term consequences. More than anything, i've spent time trying to understand the ray tracing hardware pipeline as Nvidia wasn't the first to create it and I see nothing of extreme complexity requiring a decade of work and billions of R&D. A super small startup did this almost a decade ago. I have no doubt AMD is already on top of this.

2019 it is... Closing up the hardware books.
DDR prices crash and I can double my sys memory footprint
7nm gets delivered and I can shrink my power utilization foot print and lock in a longer lasting platform.
AMD delivers next gen zen on 7nm
AMD delivers next gen GPUs on 7nm.

2017 was an epic year. 2018 has been a snooze. 2019 should be on fire.

 

[sze5003]

Nvidia's gotta find a new market and its struggling to do so.
They tried to charge a super premium for meme-learning cores which are nothing but a string of ALUs.
They then dropped an already proven ray core pipeline in which is a string of simple ALUs.

If they wanted to change the nature of gaming big league, they would have went full court press on launch.
Instead, we get this weak spirited presentation almost praying for somebody to come up with a use case to validate the cards... and then comes the pricing which says loudly : Our new segment for the consumer is the old quadro pricing and we've went enterprise pricing on our quadro line.

This is straight out of intel's handbook and begging for AMD to absolutely pummel them. If AMD launches correctly at a sound price point, Nvidia could very well be finished in 2019 and that extends into meme-learning and other premium segments as well. AMD is already on HBM 2.0 memory and these guys deliver on GDDR6 and limousine pricing. I had a 2080 in my cart with my CC info typed in. My intention was to resell this for a profit on fleebay. Then it hit me : what if I can't get a price above profitability on this card after fees? I truly felt like there would be no problem with inventory come September. There's nothing that excites me about the card.. $800. That's double what I paid for a 1070. This is literally what 1080s were going for at peak crypto mania on fleebay. They literally locked in the criminal prices people were forced to pay during the peak crypto mining mania .. Almost attempting to assure shareholders they could preserve the profit margins premiums they received in a prior quarter.

This has long term consequences. More than anything, i've spent time trying to understand the ray tracing hardware pipeline as Nvidia wasn't the first to create it and I see nothing of extreme complexity requiring a decade of work and billions of R&D. A super small startup did this almost a decade ago. I have no doubt AMD is already on top of this.

2019 it is... Closing up the hardware books.
DDR prices crash and I can double my sys memory footprint
7nm gets delivered and I can shrink my power utilization foot print and lock in a longer lasting platform.
AMD delivers next gen zen on 7nm
AMD delivers next gen GPUs on 7nm.

2017 was an epic year. 2018 has been a snooze. 2019 should be on fire.

Ha so you are one of those that will buy one and sell it on eBay for double the profit. Not gonna lie I thought about that too but Nvidia beat us to it.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Well, I just got a 1080TI FTW3 for $729. I may get another if I see them for that again. Until I see benchmarks, no way would I pay $1200 for a 2080TI, that like 66% more for what I see as possibly 30% performance improvement.

Edit: directly from EVGA I can get the FTW3 DT (100 mhz slower) for $649 right now. And the regular FTW3 is $729 right now for Elite members.

You can almost here the collective sigh of relief of resellers with significant stock of Pascals... There were starting to be some interesting deals with 1080ti card being bundled with nice PSU's at certain websites over the last several weeks. They've suddenly all gone away...

They've got a lot of confidence launching at these prices, scant on details about a new feature-set, and void of comparative benchmarks. I was expecting them to try to sell me on it and it was more or less like they were convinced that everyone was just going to begin buying them or that they didn't necessarily want to sell volume. This is above the pricing of some Quadros.. Which I predicted was their eventual goal. The issue comes down to whether or not you get Quadro level access to the cards which I doubt. So, a month from actual launch and this is what everyone has to go by.. On just about every forum and site on the internet everyone is shocked by the pricing and lack of details.

This is what got Intel into its current troubles. The same patterns.

I just hope AMD or Intel can do it faster than the 12 or so years between Core 2 duo and Ryzen...

 

[ub4ty]

Ha so you are one of those that will buy one and sell it on eBay for double the profit. Not gonna lie I thought about that too but Nvidia beat us to it.

I didn't occur to me to become this guy until I was in desperate need of one at the height of coin mania and after a week got a hold of one at MSRP. Then I became a flipper out of rage for what had happened to the market.

Not gonna lie I thought about that too but Nvidia beat us to it.

Yep, They literally have priced the 2080 at the price point of the near peak price people were paying for 1080s during coin mania. I had a nasty feeling this was going to be the longterm end result after people continually bought the cards at such heightened prices. They showed Nvidia there was a market willing to pay such prices and now like any good business, Nvidia's moving in for the kill.

 

[sze5003]

I didn't occur to me to become this guy until I as in desperate need of one at the height of coin mania and after a week got a hold of one at MSRP. Then I became a flipper out of rage for what had happened to the market.


Yep, They literally have priced the 2080 at the price point of the near peak price people were paying for 1080s during coin mania. I had a nasty feeling this was going to be the longterm end result after people continually bought the cards at such heightened prices. They showed Nvidia there was a market willing to pay such prices and now like any good business, Nvidia's moving in for the kill.

Yup I would have been pissed had my 1080ti died during that crypto phase. I called it too, at one point. Sitting there thinking people set the prices. Something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.

With the crazy mining boom months ago, people had set the prices. You would be a fool to think nvidia is going to be nice and save the gamers. Nope they are a company and the point of any company is to make money. So they come up with this software and praise the whole presentation on promises that Ray tracing is what the future is about. Now I know it may pick up later but what I fear now is games will be made to look dumb without it, and suddenly if you have one of these cards it looks great.

It's like the full autonomous autopilot for Tesla. You pay for it up front when you buy the car but it may as well be vaporware because it's far from being done and will be implemented incrementally.

 

[ozzy702]

Nvidia's gotta find a new market and its struggling to do so.
They tried to charge a super premium for meme-learning cores which are nothing but a string of ALUs.
They then dropped an already proven ray core pipeline in which is a string of simple ALUs.

If they wanted to change the nature of gaming big league, they would have went full court press on launch.
Instead, we get this weak spirited presentation almost praying for somebody to come up with a use case to validate the cards... and then comes the pricing which says loudly : Our new segment for the consumer is the old quadro pricing and we've went enterprise pricing on our quadro line.

This is straight out of intel's handbook and begging for AMD to absolutely pummel them. If AMD launches correctly at a sound price point, Nvidia could very well be finished in 2019 and that extends into meme-learning and other premium segments as well. AMD is already on HBM 2.0 memory and these guys deliver on GDDR6 and limousine pricing. I had a 2080 in my cart with my CC info typed in. My intention was to resell this for a profit on fleebay. Then it hit me : what if I can't get a price above profitability on this card after fees? I truly felt like there would be no problem with inventory come September. There's nothing that excites me about the card.. $800. That's double what I paid for a 1070. This is literally what 1080s were going for at peak crypto mania on fleebay. They literally locked in the criminal prices people were forced to pay during the peak crypto mining mania .. Almost attempting to assure shareholders they could preserve the profit margins premiums they received in a prior quarter.

This has long term consequences. More than anything, i've spent time trying to understand the ray tracing hardware pipeline as Nvidia wasn't the first to create it and I see nothing of extreme complexity requiring a decade of work and billions of R&D. A super small startup did this almost a decade ago. I have no doubt AMD is already on top of this.

2019 it is... Closing up the hardware books.
DDR prices crash and I can double my sys memory footprint
7nm gets delivered and I can shrink my power utilization foot print and lock in a longer lasting platform.
AMD delivers next gen zen on 7nm
AMD delivers next gen GPUs on 7nm.

2017 was an epic year. 2018 has been a snooze. 2019 should be on fire.

Agreed with all this except the timeline. AMD isn't doing jack shit on the GPU front until at least 2020 and hasn't released anything remotely impressive since the 7970 (praise be it's name for the BTC is made so many of us). It's going to take time for AMD to funnel money and talent into GPUs and 2019 is simply too soon for their efforts to be anything but a blip on the radar. 2020, yeah, maybe? Lets face it, AMD is focussing where they need to focus and doing a fabulous job at it. GPU competition will come in time but I think you're way too optimistic on the timeline. It wouldn't surprise me if AMD doesn't have a competitive GPU for the high end until 2021.

 

[alcoholbob]

If it has 18.6 billion transistors and isn't much faster than the 1080 Ti then they've done something wrong. I'm expecting at least 25% faster, probably closer to 35%. That's obviously not worth the price but that has never stopped people in the past.

A lot of that hardware isn't gaming related, kind of like how Kepler was. In this case you are looking at around 21% more shader cores. Outside of Maxwell, you can go back over 10+ years and see the IPC improvements have generally been either 0, or a few percentage points per generation--the gains have more or less all been due to shader core increases. 25% will be probably the absolute best clock for clock improvement with the 2080 Ti over 1080 Ti.

 

[frowertr]

Hoping that AMD comes along to save us gamers from NV prices is silly. Nvidia has such a head start it’s not even funny. The talent gap is too large...

 

[ub4ty]

Agreed with all this except the timeline. AMD isn't doing jack shit on the GPU front until at least 2020 and hasn't released anything remotely impressive since the 7970 (praise be it's name for the BTC is made so many of us). It's going to take time for AMD to funnel money and talent into GPUs and 2019 is simply too soon for their efforts to be anything but a blip on the radar. 2020, yeah, maybe? Lets face it, AMD is focussing where they need to focus and doing a fabulous job at it. GPU competition will come in time but I think you're way too optimistic on the timeline. It wouldn't surprise me if AMD doesn't have a competitive GPU for the high end until 2021.

No arguments against this. I bought a Vega to evaluate and then later flipped it because the drivers and OpenCL dev stack was a hot mess. That and the shiny marketed features didn't turn out to be what they sold the card on. I'm not in praise of any company so you could very well be right and by their GPU group's performance it seems on par. That being said, I'm not buying another piece of hardware until these prices come back down to earth. I'm stocked up and will even buy older hw if this persists.

 

[Brahmzy]

Bring ma eVGA 2080 Ti !!

 

[PeterScott]

Hoping that AMD comes along to save us gamers from NV prices is silly. Nvidia has such a head start it’s not even funny. The talent gap is too large...

It's too bad AMD is so far behind, because there is something of a potential opportunity here.

If they were close on perf/area, AMD could release a pure gaming card with no die area wasted on RT or Tensor, they could pull ahead.

As is it currently looks, NVidia can waste area on RT/Tensors and still have the conventional gaming performance lead in the bag.

 

[LTC8K6]

I'll just wait for good benchmarks. Right now I just can't tell how fast the new cards are compared to Pascal cards when ray tracing is left out.

 

[maddogmcgee]

All comes down to performance and game support for me. My 1080 is completely fine at 1440p for every game as far as i can tell -- I don't mind turning down a few settings that make ~1% of a visual difference.

If Ray Tracing is the real deal, and the 2070/2080 really crush it then I'll be upgrading. Not interested in more performance in current games, as they've all looked the same for 5 years.

And Nvidia isn't pricing anyone out of anything -- they'll be a 2060, 2050, 2030. Does not matter if the top end 2080TI is a million dollars. Its not about your e-peen -- its about the games.

He was talking about the excitement of being young and working some crappy job for months just to get a PC you knew was awesome. If not THE best you could buy then very close. With overclocking maybe even FASTER than the best you could buy from a store. I think that's the experience that leads many of us to get into this hobby in the first place. But that experience is impossible now that a single top tier video card is 1900 AUD at RRP. That's over 6 weeks of my mortgage repayment!

Sure there will be a 2030, but I don't think the experience of opening up a game and turning down settings till you get a decent frame rate is the same as eagerly opening up a game and checking you can max everything.

I mostly play strategy games so really cant switch to console but if I was a FPS player I would make the switch in an instant. To me there are so many more exciting things to spend my money on. Even the 1080 is 1200 AUD RRP. That's a flight for the weekend with my wife, accomodation and dinner at a nice restaurant or 2.

 

[ub4ty]

He was talking about the excitement of being young and working some crappy job for months just to get a PC you knew was awesome. If not THE best you could buy then very close. With overclocking maybe even FASTER than the best you could buy from a store. I think that's the experience that leads many of us to get into this hobby in the first place. But that experience is impossible now that a single top tier video card is 1900 AUD at RRP. That's over 6 weeks of my mortgage repayment!

Sure there will be a 2030, but I don't think the experience of opening up a game and turning down settings till you get a decent frame rate is the same as eagerly opening up a game and checking you can max everything.

I mostly play strategy games so really cant switch to console but if I was a FPS player I would make the switch in an instant. To me there are so many more exciting things to spend my money on. Even the 1080 is 1200 AUD RRP. That's a flight for the weekend with my wife, accomodation and dinner at a nice restaurant or 2.

Time for new companies to enter the market and the beginning of the accelerator card age... again..

 

[badb0y]

Hoping that AMD comes along to save us gamers from NV prices is silly. Nvidia has such a head start it’s not even funny. The talent gap is too large...

Yea, yea people used to say the same crap about Intel, look where we at now.

 

[Markfw]

Yea, yea people used to say the same crap about Intel, look where we at now.

What ? We finally have competition in the CPU world, and prices are good, and Intel is finally making some better products as well as AMD.

What is your point ? It would be great if AMD could make a competing product to Nvidia, then this crap wouldn't be happening.

 

[Malogeek]

What is your point ? It would be great if AMD could make a competing product to Nvidia, then this crap wouldn't be happening.

His point is that everyone wrote off AMD and now they're very competitive with an arguably superior product for the price.

 

[n0x1ous]

I mostly play strategy games so really cant switch to console but if I was a FPS player I would make the switch in an instant. .

? Going from KB/M to potato controller and you would make the switch in an instant? I dont know how all these peasants can aim with those freaking analog sticks

 

[Flacco]

I feel bad (very bad) right now for the average enthusiast gamer. I'm talking about the high school kid or young college kid who saved their money for that badass new gaming rig or GPU upgrade. Or the young dad with kids who still loves gaming but can't justify the expensive big cards due to other priorities. Those people always had the second tier card to look forward to which was almost as good as the X80 class, they had the X70 card at $3-400. Well, a large portion of those people no longer have that card now because it's been priced at $500 minimum.

I also am very bothered by the ray tracing demos they showed. They showed with ray tracing on, and it looked pretty good I guess, but then they turned it off and all the effects, reflections, and in some cases, shadows, were gone completely! He gave an excuse and said, "Without RTX, these shadows are SO HARD to do, the developers just don't do them at all!". That's a nice BS way to try and force people to buy your card. Make the game look like crap, on purpose, unless you unlock the graphics features with the new GPUs, or make it lag so bad on old cards as to be unplayable.

I feel bad for a lot of people right now who probably feel like PC gaming is no longer for them. Nvidia is alienating a massive audience at this moment and they are relying on those with deep pockets almost exclusively. When competition returns and if the competing products are half way decent, I think Nvidia may find they've lost a lot of good will and mind share over this. They are turning into Intel, and we all saw how eager people were to buy a Ryzen, in many cases just to give Intel the finger. I think it could be worse for Nvidia.

I have cash set aside for a GPU upgrade, but I won't be spending it on a 2000 series regardless of how well they perform. I won't buy one. I won't buy one out of solidarity with fellow gamers. Straight up. If they don't get one, I don't get one. Not this time anyway. I would say it's too expensive and not worth it, but the reality is if I want an upgrade from a 1080Ti, this is what it will cost, and that's what I'd pay. But I won't do it.

This pretty much captures exactly how I feel. I feel for those people since at one time I was that young high school / college age kid building my PC and getting the mid level cards but it still being enough and enjoying the entire process. Sure I can afford these cards at these price points, however it is vary hard to justify it and if I can I'm going to try and hold off. My problem now is that I don't have the luxury of having a 1080ti and can wait. I have a 970 which puts me in an awkward position. I don't want to support Nvidia at these prices. But I also don't really want to purchase a card that is already 2+ years into its lifespan. At this point I guess its just wait and see for reviews and what prices the cards are actually selling for.

I mostly play strategy games so really cant switch to console but if I was a FPS player I would make the switch in an instant. .

As a FPS gamer, I can't even consider playing them on console with a controller. I'd play pretty much everything else, but a FPS? No thanks.

 

[jpiniero]

I'll just wait for good benchmarks. Right now I just can't tell how fast the new cards are compared to Pascal cards when ray tracing is left out.

Pretty clear it's going to disappoint because of the "removed" SMXes due to fitting in the RT cores. They are already by far the biggest x102 and x104 dies also.

It'd be insane due to the design costs but a straight shrink to 7nm would otherwise make sense and lower prices. Could release it basically whenever Navi shows up.