Nvidia ,Rtx2080ti,2080,2070, information thread. Reviews and prices September 14.

[krumme]

While it's a nice bonus they can use some of the same chips for gaming and pro markets, I don't think that is the real reason behind having the HW on gaming GPUs.


I think they want to make Ray Tracing in games, the next big thing. If they succeed, that puts AMD even further behind for gaming. It will probably take years for AMD to get some dedicated Ray Tracing that makes a good showing while not violating any NVidia patents.

It's all about crushing AMD under their boot, or kicking them when they are down.

Meh. Nvidia will do the same for the pc as Intel did. These prices is killing the market long term.
Lets see at the next gen consoles to see how smart it was.

 

[CakeMonster]

NV is outdoing Intel IMO.

 

[krumme]

Huh?
In these PC times, maybe I'll leave it at that.

"Just ordered a 2080. Cost me excactly twice as much as the launch day price i got a vega 56 for to one of the kids."
"This is not consumer rip off. Its consumer rape in full public."

What do you want me to do?

I take nv shareholder rape to less fps. I am not going to pretend i dont know i was cheated. But i am a gamer.

These prices on a depreciated 12nm line is obviously historical high. No amount of raytrace whatever marketing nonsense can hide that.

 

[Det0x]

While it's a nice bonus they can use some of the same chips for gaming and pro markets, I don't think that is the real reason behind having the HW on gaming GPUs.


I think they want to make Ray Tracing in games, the next big thing. If they succeed, that puts AMD even further behind for gaming. It will probably take years for AMD to get some dedicated Ray Tracing that makes a good showing while not violating any NVidia patents.

It's all about crushing AMD under their boot, or kicking them when they are down.

This is probably the intended market with Turing.

07:55PM EDT - NVIDIA wants a bigger piece of the pie in the visual effects industry

07:58PM EDT - "Large render farms". Now imagine if they were full of Quadros instead of Xeons...

That's a new 250B market they did not have access to before Turning, with its ray-tracing engines.

Ray-tracing in games with gimpworks is likely a afterthought..

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13215/nvidia-siggraph-2018-keynote-live-blog-4pm-pacific

 

[PeterScott]

This is probably the intended market with Turing.

That's a new 250B market they did not have access to before Turning, with its ray-tracing engines.

Ray-tracing in games with gimpworks is likely a afterthought..

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13215/nvidia-siggraph-2018-keynote-live-blog-4pm-pacific

It can be both.

If RT had no place in gaming they would make separate Gaming chips. Just like they did for the first deep learning chips.

They could also have revealed non Real Time ray tracing years ago, for the professional markets, but I think it is telling that they waited until they got to the point that they can do it in real time RT for games before making a push.

IMO the Ray tracing push for gaming is as, if not more important than for the pro market.

It's another moat they will have against AMD in gaming. It strengthens NVidias near monopoly in gaming, and gaming is still their biggest revenue generator.

 

[Christopher Bohling]

It can be both.

If RT had no place in gaming they would make separate Gaming chips. Just like they did for the first deep learning chips.

They could also have revealed non Real Time ray tracing years ago, for the professional markets, but I think it is telling that they waited until they got to the point that they can do it in real time RT for games before making a push.

IMO the Ray tracing push for gaming is as, if not more important than for the pro market.

It's another moat they will have against AMD in gaming. It strengthens NVidias near monopoly in gaming, and gaming is still their biggest revenue generator.

Yeah, but most games still won't be developed with ray tracing as a core feature, because most games are cross-platform and the PS5 won't have a strong ray tracing GPU lol. I'm not worried about my GTX 1080 falling behind too quickly lol

 

[StinkyPinky]

Well that was underwhelming.

 

[krumme]

Good for Intel NV dont have a x86 license...not to mention amd.

 

[ub4ty]

NV is outdoing Intel IMO.

That big arse monolithic die is likely kicking their but on manuf cost just like intel.

 

[maddie]

What do you want me to do?

I take nv shareholder rape to less fps. I am not going to pretend i dont know i was cheated. But i am a gamer.

These prices on a depreciated 12nm line is obviously historical high. No amount of raytrace whatever marketing nonsense can hide that.

OK, serious answer here.

What if these cards came out next year? Would you still enjoy gaming in the intervening period?

If yes, then you don't need it.

To state the blindingly obvious, people buying these, fuels the price increase with positive feedback. What do most here think would happen, with even a 3-4 month refusal to buy at these prices, from the average gamer.

 

[krumme]

Well that was underwhelming.

Due to the crazy prices. Lots of perspective imo for gaming.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well that was underwhelming.

We didn't get any sort of a useful benchmark.

 

[PeterScott]

Yeah, but most games still won't be developed with ray tracing as a core feature, because most games are cross-platform and the PS5 won't have a strong ray tracing GPU lol. I'm not worried about my GTX 1080 falling behind too quickly lol

I think you are ignoring how easy it is to do Ray Tracing from a Dev perspective. It's Tons of work to fake out lighting/shadows/reflections with rasterization, but Ray tracing is more like turn it on and it works.

An unfortunate thing that might happen is that devs spend less time tweaking all faked out rasterized stuff to perfection, when they can just do "good enough" for rasterized, and say turn on Ray Tracing if you want the best effects.

 

[darkswordsman17]

While it's a nice bonus they can use some of the same chips for gaming and pro markets, I don't think that is the real reason behind having the HW on gaming GPUs.


I think they want to make Ray Tracing in games, the next big thing. If they succeed, that puts AMD even further behind for gaming. It will probably take years for AMD to get some dedicated Ray Tracing that makes a good showing while not violating any NVidia patents.

It's all about crushing AMD under their boot, or kicking them when they are down.

I disagree. I don't think Nvidia even concerns themselves much with AMD's GPU stuff right now. They're doing their own thing. Frankly, I think they're probably more concerned on what Intel might be doing over AMD for the time being, until AMD gives them a reason to (which I think AMD is just plain focusing on other markets). Actually I'd guess that Nvidia might be most concerned with Apple now that they're doing their own GPU, and seeing how quickly Apple advanced their CPU. Tablets and smartphones already dwarf console and PC sales, and Nvidia has not made much traction in that market despite being in it for several years. Apple will almost certainly start rolling out big infrastructure (server) setups in the future too, and they could absolutely look to use their own hardware there. And they have more pull with fabs than anyone, and the money to be able to do whatever they want.

I wouldn't be so sure that AMD will be left out so much (but I don't know that we'll see them going to the level Nvidia is for a couple of years). The reason I say that is that Microsoft is actually a big player in the push for ray-tracing (actually aren't they the ones even dictating the standards that Nvidia is using for their hardware for games? They had the ray-tracing announcement awhile back and its being baked into DX12), and Microsoft works with AMD on the Xbox, so I'm sure AMD has an idea of the type of hardware they'll need. While I personally think we'll see limited ray-tracing hardware in consoles before they basically become streaming boxes, I do think Microsoft has an interest in making sure that Nvidia isn't the only player for the cloud processing so that they can try and keep costs from going totally bonkers and so Microsoft can keep control over where things go.

I wonder if we might not see AMD do their real push for ray-tracing when they move to their multi-die/chiplet setup. Have chips that are focused on their task and tailor the whole chip to that. And then that would let you adjust to different markets. More of a certain type of processing, the higher those chips ratio to the others, or adjust their relatives sizes depending on what the market dictates.

 

[krumme]

OK, serious answer here.

What if these cards came out next year? Would you still enjoy gaming in the intervening period?

If yes, then you don't need it.

To state the blindingly obvious, people buying these, fuels the price increase with positive feedback. What do most here think would happen, with even a 3-4 month refusal to buy at these prices, from the average gamer.

The average gamer will not pay 600 usd for a 2017. The 1070 was clearly a stretch and people went to 1060 6gb. 970 was spot on for price.
Dont worry. Nv will see.

Btw i -need- this card for bf1 bf5 4k or it simply will not work at that res even at lower settings and my min fps will go low. So not waiting.

Will change again at 7nm. Hopefully world is changed then.

 

[sze5003]

Just got an email from Newegg. Asus reference 2080Ti is $1239..why? What makes $200 more. It's the FE but Asus version I guess you pay for the brand.

 

[Ranulf]

Jensen be all about dem gigarays. When will we get real perf numbers? About 4 weeks. Stay tuned folks, and preorder! Also, $499 for AIB 2070 cards, while we have new 1080's at $450 or so. GTX 2060 will be out in November much like the delay with the 960 cards.

But hey, these prices will help them move the glut of older cards out first. Certainly has me watching 1080 and 1080 ti prices. I doubt we'll see stable pricing near msrp till after the holiday season.

 

[ub4ty]

While it's a nice bonus they can use some of the same chips for gaming and pro markets, I don't think that is the real reason behind having the HW on gaming GPUs.


I think they want to make Ray Tracing in games, the next big thing. If they succeed, that puts AMD even further behind for gaming. It will probably take years for AMD to get some dedicated Ray Tracing that makes a good showing while not violating any NVidia patents.

It's all about crushing AMD under their boot, or kicking them when they are down.

Luckily ray tracing in hardware was done 10 years before now and fully detailed.
It's not something that was miraculously introduced by Nvidia from the ground up and its not something that can't be replicated by others. The big issue with this is that I am seeing DirectX all over it. AMD also supports Real time ray tracing through it in their current line of cards. So, it comes down to specs/performance which this presentation was light on. Not a sign of confidence IMO.

> Hey we got this new tech and cards.. Here's some videos of it in action
> Pre-order please.
> We'll give you performance details later...
HUH? LOL, If the performance details are so good, give them to me now.

I was only intending on buying one to flip it on fleebay for double MSRP. I even decided against that as I don't think it will garner that much interest. $800+ tax for a video card w/ no performance benchmarks? LOL. They better detail and benchmark every last detail to the T and there better be zero disparity between hardware access of these ray tracing/tensor cores through API/SDKs as there is with the quadro line and Nvlink as well. If this was detailed, maybe i would have pre-ordered. But, as it stands, you've got to be kidding me? This is like a paper launch

 

[Christopher Bohling]

I think you are ignoring how easy it is to do Ray Tracing from a Dev perspective. It's Tons of work to fake out lighting/shadows/reflections with rasterization, but Ray tracing is more like turn it on and it works.

An unfortunate thing that might happen is that devs spend less time tweaking all faked out rasterized stuff to perfection, when they can just do "good enough" for rasterized, and say turn on Ray Tracing if you want the best effects.

Yeah I understand that, but my point is they're still going to spend time "tweaking all the faked out rasterized stuff to perfection" because they have to release a game that looks good on console, and the next-gen consoles likely aren't going to have a GPU that's great for ray tracing.

 

[ub4ty]

Jensen be all about dem gigarays. When will we get real perf numbers? About 4 weeks. Stay tuned folks, and preorder! Also, $499 for AIB 2070 cards, while we have new 1080's at $450 or so. GTX 2060 will be out in November much like the delay with the 960 cards.

But hey, these prices will help them move the glut of older cards out first. Certainly has me watching 1080 and 1080 ti prices. I doubt we'll see stable pricing near msrp till after the holiday season.

There's no way prices are going to elevate higher above these already insane MSRPs.
I'm maybe thinking about the 2070 but with no performance details that's still questionable. If what I hear is correct 2070 has no nvlink you can just about forget it. $800 is ridiculous for an nvlink'd 2080 that I am still unsure about the hardware access gimping. $1200 for a 1080ti is outright comedy .

This is what got Intel into trouble and I'm sure come 2019, Nvidia is going to be a steep price.
12nm ... being phased out by 7nm in one year and this is the way you launch a product you need people to critically adapt? KEK

I'd have bought one if I thought they'd be unavailable, prices would rise, and I'd be able to charge some pleb double msrp on ebay.. I don't think that is even possible or profitable after fees.

No way prices go above MSRP. The 2070 is the only reasonable card. However, if 2070 has no Nvlink, its DOA.

1080/1080ti are still in stock for pre-order as one would expect at these prices after hours sitting on Nvidia's website

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think you are ignoring how easy it is to do Ray Tracing from a Dev perspective. It's Tons of work to fake out lighting/shadows/reflections with rasterization, but Ray tracing is more like turn it on and it works.

An unfortunate thing that might happen is that devs spend less time tweaking all faked out rasterized stuff to perfection, when they can just do "good enough" for rasterized, and say turn on Ray Tracing if you want the best effects.

I'm not buying that its that simple. I know devs have been doing a lot of work to implement tricks to try an accomplish similar things, but there will be other factors that will play a role in what they can accomplish as well. They're basically going to be looking at a rework of their whole rendering setup to really take advantage of ray-tracing, and from what I recall, the reason they went the "approximate using tricks" approach was because other benefits to how they program games, made it worth going that route vs wanting to do ray-tracing where they'd have to give up a good amount of features that made for more realistic games overall. I'm not sure that this ray-tracing hardware is as spectacularly tailored for it as they're acting like it is.

Now, maybe is the time to do it and that's why Microsoft is pushing it as well, figuring, they're already doing a lot or rework to take advantage of DX12 features, why not in the process of doing that look at reworking to implement ray-tracing? Or maybe Microsoft is pushing ray-tracing to try and get more developers to put in the work for DX12. Let's not forget how that was supposed to be easy free performance.

 

[maddie]

There's no way prices are going to elevate higher above these already insane MSRPs.
I'm maybe thinking about the 2070 but with no performance details that's still questionable. If what I hear is correct 2070 has no nvlink you can just about forget it. $800 is ridiculous for an nvlink'd 2080 that I am still unsure about the hardware access gimping. $1200 for a 1080ti is outright comedy .

This is what got Intel into trouble and I'm sure come 2019, Nvidia is going to be a steep price.
12nm ... being phased out by 7nm in one year and this is the way you launch a product you need people to critically adapt? KEK

I'd have bought one if I thought they'd be unavailable, prices would rise, and I'd be able to charge some pleb double msrp on ebay.. I don't think that is even possible or profitable after fees.

No way prices go above MSRP. The 2070 is the only reasonable card. However, if 2070 has no Nvlink, its DOA.

1080/1080ti are still in stock for pre-order as one would expect at these prices after hours sitting on Nvidia's website

My thoughts exactly.
We need to get this popular ASAP, let's screw em with the price anyhow.

 

[maddie]

The average gamer will not pay 600 usd for a 2017. The 1070 was clearly a stretch and people went to 1060 6gb. 970 was spot on for price.
Dont worry. Nv will see.

Btw i -need- this card for bf1 bf5 4k or it simply will not work at that res even at lower settings and my min fps will go low. So not waiting.

Will change again at 7nm. Hopefully world is changed then.

Fair enough, the < 1 %.

 

[Muhammed]

Yeah, but most games still won't be developed with ray tracing as a core feature,

NVIDIA is pushing 21 games right now:
https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/98vwif/games_supporting_rtx/

 

[PeterScott]

. Actually I'd guess that Nvidia might be most concerned with Apple now that they're doing their own GPU, and seeing how quickly Apple advanced their CPU.

Not much of a worry for NVidia, since they haven't sold GPUs to Apple for years. That is much bigger worry for AMD, because Apple is probably one their most significant GPU buyers.

The reason I say that is that Microsoft is actually a big player in the push for ray-tracing (actually aren't they the ones even dictating the standards that Nvidia is using for their hardware for games? They had the ray-tracing announcement awhile back and its being baked into DX12), and Microsoft works with AMD on the Xbox, so I'm sure AMD has an idea of the type of hardware they'll need. While I personally think we'll see limited ray-tracing hardware in consoles before they basically become streaming boxes, I do think Microsoft has an interest in making sure that Nvidia isn't the only player for the cloud processing so that they can try and keep costs from going totally bonkers and so Microsoft can keep control over where things go.

The DX12 ray tracing announcement, was in March GDC announced together with NVIdia RTX. All the demos were NVidia Demos. The Microsoft raytracing dev kit HW was NVidia Volta. This is pretty much a Microsoft/NVidia partnership, and NVidia would have been driving the APIs in favorable directions to work the actual HW it was building.

NVidia has a huge lead in real-time Raytracing.