Nvidia Q3 Financial Results

[BenSkywalker]

AMD's dual core C-50 processor has a 9 watt TDP right now. You're overestimating ARM's power consumption advantage.

Underestimating? Tegra3 can decode 1440p mkv using less then a quarter of that power, the C-50 can't handle 1080p mkv. In terms of power consumption x86 is very, very poor right now. A trivial task the C-50 can't do is handled with ease using significantly less power under the ARM architecture. It is fully possible that x86 may make huge strides, but the C-50 gets trounced, badly.

The move to APUs by both Intel and AMD was a pretty substantial leap forward, improving the ratios of performance to power consumption and price.

That leap still leaves them behind ARM SoCs, by quite a bit too.

All may be true but betting against intel and its fabs isn't real smart.

StrongARM? Larrabee? Betting against Intel most of the time is very smart. There is the one game they have utterly dominated, x86 CPUs, and that's about it(well, fabrication technology, even spotting them that though they still get destroyed when they try and exit the x86 market).

Microsoft is moving Windows to ARM, Windows 8 native interface is one designed to work on ARM systems first and foremost. I don't care for that direction at all, but that is the way things are going. x86 right now is falling off a cliff in terms of mind share in the broader computing world. They lost the high end to nVidia, they lost the low end to ARM, and now MS is helping push ARM into the middle ground. As of right now, more ARM processors ship then x86 by quite a bit, at the current sales trends nVidia will sell more *CPUs* then AMD by 2013. x86 isn't about to die, but it has long lost its' place as the dominant computing platform. Right now it has already been moved down to minority, the question at this point is how long can hold on to its' relevance. Typical users don't need as much power as an i7 has, those that need far more, are moving to GPGPUs as they are far more poweful. x86 is holding on to a middle ground that is being eroded from about and below. I still love gaming on my PC, so I don't want to see x86 go away, but they are headed in that direction quickly and it doesn't look like they are making any real progress in preventing it atm.

It will probably take a few months at least for Tegra 3 devices to hit the market.

Asus already said the Transformer Prime is shipping in December.

 

[ocre]

And btw, i have a C-50 laptop, its slow and doesnt impress me in any way. it struggles at lord of the rings in the lowest settings. Heck i havent found a single game that i wanted to play on it. it is way slower than you might think. I own one and I just gave it to my 4yr old, no joke!

My friend has an asus transformer tegra2. I got to use it for an extended time a few weeks ago. OMG it is impressive. Its so snappy, anything you do with it opens instantly. Movies, internet browsing. Endless apps. Android everything, all open in a snap. It is fresh and new. I was massively impressed with the tablet. It left me in awe! I cannot help but want the transformer 2. I am hooked

You can tell me all day long the c50 is more powerful but its a slow peice of crap compared to the asus tablet i used. everything opens instantly and it was like wow, snap snap snap. The games were instant and looked extremely good, better than i would ever expect. But they played so smooth. All this x86 more powerful stuff gets thrown out when you actually have a new tablet in your hand. One that does everything instantly. one that plays videos for 6 hrs straight in a car ride and still had battery left. Not only that but HD without a shudder.

I have been in PCs my whole life, since the 8088 days. It takes a lot to wow me, especially like that tablet did. I am telling you, I am waiting impatiently for the asus transformer2. had i not seen the first one or used it, i wouldnt even have known anything about it.

My wife is like "you just go that laptop" and i am like i got it for our son"; lie
I cannot say much more except that ARM has got a lot going for it, and a c50 was a boring PC experience for me in every single way possible.

 

[Red Hawk]

Are we here again? Okay then Llano is king, Arm is doomed. Why is anyone using ARM CPUs? Tegra 3 is a joke.

As far as performance, Tablets boot in seconds and the apps load nearly instantly. Tegra 3 isnt as week as you may think. One cannot cross compare these different platforms easily or accurately. Llano is not good enough to compete in the ARM space, not by a long shot. Intel still hasnt broke into that market. And before you claim SW, ask yourself why the SW followed ARM like it has? Why is the software gonna continue to follow ARM and its massive user base

X86 has been around forever, its not very hard to get software for it. Your not seeing the big picture, Arm has a huge footing in their own markets, x86 hasnt made a single dent there. If its power advantages or not, this is how it is. I am inclined to believe that it doesnt matter much at all now at this point. There is too much established for ARM at this time.

I also see that x86 is still trying to cut back power, so maybe you could tell them its good enough, arm dont have much of a power advantage. They could save some money if they knew it wasnt a big deal like you seem to be sure of.

It matters little, ARM is already well established. Its user base is growing at record breaking speeds. Llano will do nothing to slow down ARM. Many things factor into play here, power usage is just part of it. The massive success of ARM is guaranteed. Its already happening. When x86 or llano starts taking some of ARMs market we can talk about it, until then you can claim whatever you like. I dont see it happening like you say.

You are welcome to your own prediction. What i see is ARM dominating in their markets and those markets are overspilling into low powered x86 spaces. When that changes, i will take note. X86 market shrinking to a crawl, ARM markets doubling in less than a yr. When this changes, i will take note. Arm CPUs are also doubling in performance in less than a yr, x86 inching 15 to 20% each yr. (minus AMD). When this changes, i will take note. I dont see Llano as a magic chip doing much at all. But if it does happen to change the world, I will take note.

Tegra 3 is a joke when it comes to comparatively priced x86 processors at performance, sure. It will fit a niche of quality low-powered devices, though.

The startup speed difference can be attributed to efficiencies in the OS, not the processor. Android starts up faster than Windows 7. Windows 8 starts up just as fast as Android, though -- and they demonstrated this using a laptop.

I should point out that AMD's graphics cards doubled in power between generations. The Radeon HD 4890 had 800 shader processors, while its successor the 5870 had 1600 shader processors. What's holding back x86 development now is the switch to a new manufacturing process. ARM has this limitation as well. By the time Tegra 4 comes out we'll have a Llano successor with at least 480 shader processors (like a Radeon HD 6570) if not 800 (like a 5770/6770). If you want a high performance tablet, x86 will beat ARM every time. Period.

You're talking about established technology...isn't that x86's advantage, though? x86 has been in laptops a lot longer than ARM tablets and smartphones have been around. If there is an established technology to dethrone, it's x86, not ARM.

Underestimating? Tegra3 can decode 1440p mkv using less then a quarter of that power, the C-50 can't handle 1080p mkv. In terms of power consumption x86 is very, very poor right now. A trivial task the C-50 can't do is handled with ease using significantly less power under the ARM architecture. It is fully possible that x86 may make huge strides, but the C-50 gets trounced, badly.

Since I can't find any working examples of a Tegra 3 device on the market, can you provide a source for that?

Asus already said the Transformer Prime is shipping in December.

Fine then, they barely make it by 2011. What's the price of this going to be?

 

[BenSkywalker]

Since I can't find any working examples of a Tegra 3 device on the market, can you provide a source for that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIPPKDur14k

Tegra 3's video decoder can accelerate 1080p H.264 high profile content at up to 40Mbps, although device vendors can impose their own bitrate caps and file limitations on the silicon.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5072/nvidias-tegra-3-launched-architecture-revealed/2

The YouTube link shows 1440p video running on Tegra 3.

What's the price of this going to be?

$499 for the 32GB model. That's the same price as the Inspiron Duo(only remotely comparable x86 device I could find).

 

[Red Hawk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIPPKDur14k



http://www.anandtech.com/show/5072/nvidias-tegra-3-launched-architecture-revealed/2

The YouTube link shows 1440p video running on Tegra 3.

Hmm. I wonder what amount of RAM is attached to that. The C-50 is usually crippled by having only 1 GB of RAM along with it.

$499 for the 32GB model. That's the same price as the Inspiron Duo(only remotely comparable x86 device I could find).

Comparable as in performance, power consumption, or a combination? Because there are plenty of Llano laptops at that price point.

I will say that the collision of x86 and ARM will likely result in the elimination of the netbook. That is, the netbook will become indistinguishable from tablets with keyboards.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I wonder what amount of RAM is attached to that. The C-50 is usually crippled by having only 1 GB of RAM along with it.

Tegra3 has 1GB on its' SoC, ARM platforms are *far* more efficient then x86.

Comparable as in performance, power consumption, or a combination?

Functionality. Touchscreen form factor is considerably more complex then those used by your run of the mill net/notebooks. Battery life?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4444/amd-llano-notebook-review-a-series-fusion-apu-a8-3500m/7

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4277/asus-eee-pad-transformer-review/7

The Transformer lasts longer playing back 720p video then Llano notebook lasts *at idle*. To say that x86 isn't remotely competitive is a huge understatement. It is very difficult to compare performance directly right now as Android is *significantly* faster then Windows so any comparison you do is going to make the Windows device seem significantly slower. When Win8 hits we will be able to do direct comparisons on comparable hardware.

 

[Red Hawk]

Tegra3 has 1GB on its' SoC, ARM platforms are *far* more efficient then x86.

By the same token, then, it's not upgradeable?

Functionality. Touchscreen form factor is considerably more complex then those used by your run of the mill net/notebooks. Battery life?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4444/amd-llano-notebook-review-a-series-fusion-apu-a8-3500m/7

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4277/asus-eee-pad-transformer-review/7

The Transformer lasts longer playing back 720p video then Llano notebook lasts *at idle*. To say that x86 isn't remotely competitive is a huge understatement. It is very difficult to compare performance directly right now as Android is *significantly* faster then Windows so any comparison you do is going to make the Windows device seem significantly slower. When Win8 hits we will be able to do direct comparisons on comparable hardware.

Touchscreen? I never even brought up that functionality. My point is mostly tied to performance, and that point remains. ARM is not going to surpass x86 performance anytime soon. As far as currently available chips go, AMD's C-50 and E-350 chips are less expensive than Tegra 2 devices with comparable performance and TDP. Llano leaves them in the dust regarding performance at the same price point. Tegra 3's almost here, but Fusion chips have been here for almost half a year. Tegra 3 probably still won't beat Llano at sheer performance. Give AMD another 6 months or so and they'll have a refined iteration of Fusion.

But you are correct that we need Windows 8 to make direct hardware comparisons.

 

[BenSkywalker]

By the same token, then, it's not upgradeable?

Correct.

Touchscreen? I never even brought up that functionality.

Reality exists if we want it to or not. You can say that ARM parts aren't shipping in what you are looking for in terms of form factor and there wouldn't be any room to debate that point. I compared devices with comparable functionality.

My point is mostly tied to performance, and that point remains.

You are correct. In the rather trivial case of high profile 1080p decode the C-50 *fails* where the Tegra 3 does it with ease. On a straight performance basis, x86 is getting smacked about the head in no uncertain terms in this not unusual consumer task. The C-50 also consumers *more* then 300% of the power to offer that inferior performance. Huge, power hungry and slow- all very valid point concerning the engineering travesty that is the C-50. In any real world performance metric we can use right now, the ARM platforms obliterate the, err, remotely kind of somewhat by x86 standards power efficient chips. In real world standards, they are insanely power hungry, hot, and slow.

 

[ocre]

Touchscreen? I never even brought up that functionality. My point is mostly tied to performance, and that point remains. ARM is not going to surpass x86 performance anytime soon. As far as currently available chips go, AMD's C-50 and E-350 chips are less expensive than Tegra 2 devices with comparable performance and TDP. Llano leaves them in the dust regarding performance at the same price point. Tegra 3's almost here, but Fusion chips have been here for almost half a year. Tegra 3 probably still won't beat Llano at sheer performance. Give AMD another 6 months or so and they'll have a refined iteration of Fusion.

But this is what i tried to bring up. You can tell me all day long a c-50 is more powerful but do you even own one? I have a c50 (net book)and i found it very slow and was so disappointed with just about everything. Loading was slow. Battery was yuck. Watching HD movies was just not something you wanted to do. Everything it did was slow. And about its graphics being good enough, I dont know if it was just the slow CPU or what, but i found not a single PC game that was acceptable to play for me. I wanted to like it, dont get me wrong, I bought it. Now its my sons.

My friend has an Asus transformer. I believe its only the tegra2. Anyway it blew my mind. You have no idea the difference between the two. No one using both would call the ARM system slow. No one. Its snappy as can be. I didnt want it to be that way, it just was. Now i am getting rid of my C50 and waiting for the Transformer2. Its that amassing. I am more excited about it than seeing the 7000series.

You can claim all day till your blue in the face that the C50 is superior but its just your blind faith. I didnt want to like the ARM device better but it impressed me on every front. I cannot tell you how nice it was to have everything snap open in a split second. Everything. Even multiple Apps were all with ease. I am a believer, ARM has a ecosystem that works like that. These C50 laptops look incredibly slow in comparison.

All may change when Win8 hits the shelves. But somehow i doubt it. Spend some time using these devices (c50 netbook, Asus transformer) and i promise you will have a big change in heart.

 

[Nemesis 1]

By the same token, then, it's not upgradeable?



Touchscreen? I never even brought up that functionality. My point is mostly tied to performance, and that point remains. ARM is not going to surpass x86 performance anytime soon. As far as currently available chips go, AMD's C-50 and E-350 chips are less expensive than Tegra 2 devices with comparable performance and TDP. Llano leaves them in the dust regarding performance at the same price point. Tegra 3's almost here, but Fusion chips have been here for almost half a year. Tegra 3 probably still won't beat Llano at sheer performance. Give AMD another 6 months or so and they'll have a refined iteration of Fusion.

But you are correct that we need Windows 8 to make direct hardware comparisons.

Your in a losing battle . Nv faithful. As for AMD and its faithful they be just as die hard . Intel needs to close its doors . They be doomed with their pityful graphics and antiquated fabs and miserable xtors.

http://www.mydemocraticstore.com/TrueBlue I just quit intel LOL

 

[SirPauly]

Intel is a giant and very formidable but when it comes to the PC gamer and the performance mind-set, and why there are nVidia and AMD/ATI faithful. It would be neat to see Intel enter the fray and put those immense resources to work some more.