NVIDIA preparing dual-GPU GF110

[sandorski]

I would not jump to that conclusion yet.. see how cayman goes first.

Even with Cayman(unless it's a 100% improvement or something), Nvidia at least has something to work with now.

 

[sandorski]

I think this is part of the real answer, but even more importantly, Quadro. Professional graphics + HPC + gaming graphics all use the same basic design, so they can spread around the R&D costs more easily. AMD meanwhile basically has no real answer to Teslas and its pro graphics division has pathetic market share (under 20%).

Worse, ATI is chained to AMD, which struggles to make a profit. So ATI (graphics) is probably subsidizing AMD (CPU) to some extent.

There is no ATI.

 

[blastingcap]

There is no ATI.

 

[Silverforce11]

I think this is part of the real answer, but even more importantly, Quadro. Professional graphics + HPC + gaming graphics all use the same basic design, so they can spread around the R&D costs more easily. AMD meanwhile basically has no real answer to Teslas and its pro graphics division has pathetic market share (under 20&#37.

Worse, ATI is chained to AMD, which struggles to make a profit. So ATI (graphics) is probably subsidizing AMD (CPU) to some extent.

Last i read ATI turned a slight profit this year, on top of expanding and hiring hundreds of engineers. I would say that's pretty good. Now, we can speculate on what those hundreds of geeks are doing at ATI, i would think it has something to do with the one market they can't penetrate, and thats HPC. Or, they could be working on making drivers that work *heh*.

I can understand NVs model, Huang is obviously not stupid. Given that NVs large dies, even if its low yielding is subsidized, that means as long as NV has monopoly on the HPC market, they can make dies >50% larger than ATI can and still be a profitable outfit. As more dx11 features penetrate games and apps, GPUs with compute abilities will no longer be inefficient in terms of perf/mm2. I can see them dominate ATI in the future if they retain HPC monopoly.

Oh, when we refer to ATI, we mean AMD's graphics division. I still like to call it ATI.

Edit: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/...essful_GPU_Can_Become_an_HPC_Accelerator.html

Interesting "insights" from NV. They are claiming their single design is what enables them to be profitable, as R&D costs are huge. But i don't agree with them saying intel is not a threat. Intel's CPU business can easily subsidize their GPU-HPC division, they are a much bigger entity than NVs consumer GPU business.

 

[RussianSensation]

Whats funny is I'm the first to admit that I'm completely Nvidia bias. I ditched my 4890 to go to a 8800GT.

*edit*

Wow Ben, that makes no sense. 4890 has better 3D performance, better 2D image quality, and it destroys GTX580 in modern GPGPU computing like Collatz Conjecture and MilkWay. I would have traded you my 8800GTS 320mb for the 4890 if you were that desperate to go back to NV lol. Next time you "accidentally" buy an HD6990, just PM me and i'll trade you my GTX470 for your AMD card. I'll be very fair and won't ask you for any $$ on top off the 470 trade-in.

 

[RussianSensation]

Nvidia has certainly recovered from a generally crappy year in the Vidcard Market.

Depends on what you consider the "videocard market".

If you are talking about desktop discrete units, then NV was always in the lead anyway. Right now they have a 59% market share on the desktop. There is no way to get 59% market share from just selling GTX460s alone. This means NV had a competitive lineup in a lot of other segments throughout the whole year.

If you are talking about the notebook/mobile discrete segment of GPUs, then NV is so far behind AMD, they'll need a P4--> C2D type of turn-around in that segment. ^_^

There is no ATI.

And that's sad. If ATi was a stand-alone company and didn't have to give up its profits to support that mismanaged CPU company, who knows how good their videocards could have been. AMD's total market cap right now is worth less than what they paid for ATI on acquisition. If Bulldozer doesn't at least match Core i7 gen1 in performance/clock performance, I have no hope for their CPU division. I remember how disappointed I was when Phenom launched after the spectacular A64.

 

[Silverforce11]

Getting offtopic, but i have to agree that if bulldozer don't perform it will be very very tough for AMD. They have nothing (except ATI heh) to subsidize their huge CPUs, selling 6 cores to counter intel's much smaller 4 cores.

 

[Ben90]

Wow Ben, that makes no sense.

From a performance point, your absolutely right. My 4890 smokes my 8800GT in absolutely everything except for folding at home, which I don't do anymore.

The drivers more than make up for that, for me at least. As long as I'm not GPU bound, the 8800GT is able to force a higher refresh rate on my monitor ultimately achieving a higher displayed framerate. When you play at 1024x768 using nearly the lowest possible visual settings on Quake III, your GPU isn't the bottleneck very often.

 

[sandorski]

Depends on what you consider the "videocard market".

If you are talking about desktop discrete units, then NV was always in the lead anyway. Right now they have a 59% market share on the desktop. There is no way to get 59% market share from just selling GTX460s alone. This means NV had a competitive lineup in a lot of other segments throughout the whole year.

If you are talking about the notebook/mobile discrete segment of GPUs, then NV is so far behind AMD, they'll need a P4--> C2D type of turn-around in that segment. ^_^



And that's sad. If ATi was a stand-alone company and didn't have to give up its profits to support that mismanaged CPU company, who knows how good their videocards could have been. AMD's total market cap right now is worth less than what they paid for ATI on acquisition. If Bulldozer doesn't at least match Core i7 gen1 in performance/clock performance, I have no hope for their CPU division. I remember how disappointed I was when Phenom launched after the spectacular A64.

AMD isn't mismanaged, in fact they are managed very well. They are just the small fish in their primary Market.

 

[RussianSensation]

AMD isn't mismanaged, in fact they are managed very well. They are just the small fish in their primary Market.

The markets for GPUs and CPUs are massive. Athlon 64 was so much better than P4 or Prescott. Athlon XP+ was better than Williamette P4s too. What happened to that leadership?

 

[sandorski]

The markets for GPUs and CPUs are massive. Athlon 64 was so much better than P4 or Prescott. Athlon XP+ was better than Williamette P4s too. What happened to that leadership?

What could they have done differently? Just achieving those was good management.

 

[blastingcap]

The markets for GPUs and CPUs are massive. Athlon 64 was so much better than P4 or Prescott. Athlon XP+ was better than Williamette P4s too. What happened to that leadership?

Hector Ruiz happened to it.

Also, Intel woke up and stopped being to complacent. They listened to their Israeli engineers working on mobile Pentium chips and ran with it. And lastly, of course, Intel basically cajoled and/or bribed people to keep buying their chips, eventually leading to a >$1billion settlement with AMD. But too little too late; the momentum AMD had in ~2005 melted away. If Intel had played fair, the situation today probably wouldn't be QUITE as dire for AMD, since they might have remained competitive had they had more revenue coming in for R&D.

 

[lyssword]

rofl, women gossip about people, men gossip about video cards

 

[Arkadrel]

I think this is part of the real answer, but even more importantly, Quadro. Professional graphics + HPC + gaming graphics all use the same basic design, so they can spread around the R&D costs more easily. AMD meanwhile basically has no real answer to Teslas and its pro graphics division has pathetic market share (under 20%).

Worse, ATI is chained to AMD, which struggles to make a profit. So ATI (graphics) is probably subsidizing AMD (CPU) to some extent.

QFT.

Amd saves by makeing high performance/mm^2.
Nvidia saves by spreading around R&D costs.

 

[tweakboy]

How much will it cost on release date. $799 ??? If a 580 is 500 dollars then this is 700 dollars at least if not more...

 

[SolMiester]

It's not about AMD not caring blast, its about NV being very desperate because they have to be. When you are the underdog, you strive to achieve more, it's just natural.

However, I can't see Huang being happy selling 530mm+ gtx470 for $250. He does it because he has to when the 255mm2 competitor is nipping at his toes. But then again, perhaps NV doesn't care because its HPC can subsidize its large monolithic GPU designs.

Edit: Ark, two separate PCBs often draw more power than 2 GPUs on 1 PCB. Factor in specially binned low vcore GPUs, it'll fit in the 375W specs. Just as long as throttling functions to prevent "power viruses" from draw max load.

I LOL'd....NV are and have been many things, underdog was never one of them!

 

[Silverforce11]

See those gtx480 prices drop? How about the their only good product the gtx460, still dropping. Then the coup de grace, gtx470 going for under $250. I'd say theres a reason they are forced to price drop, and its not because ATI is the underdog.

 

[SolMiester]

See those gtx480 prices drop? How about the their only good product the gtx460, still dropping. Then the coup de grace, gtx470 going for under $250. I'd say theres a reason they are forced to price drop, and its not because ATI is the underdog.

Yes, price dropping to get rid of stock ahead of 560 and 570 releases.....you think they are dropping because.....?

 

[Ares1214]

Yes, price dropping to get rid of stock ahead of 560 and 570 releases.....you think they are dropping because.....?

You do realize they lost the market share crown for the first time in years...and were late to the DX11 party...and AMD still holds 75-80% of the DX11 market, right?

 

[Will Robinson]

You do realize they lost the market share crown for the first time in years...and were late to the DX11 party...and AMD still holds 75-80% of the DX11 market, right?

Realizing and admitting are two vastly different things

 

[nOOky]

From a performance point, your absolutely right. My 4890 smokes my 8800GT in absolutely everything except for folding at home, which I don't do anymore.

The drivers more than make up for that, for me at least. As long as I'm not GPU bound, the 8800GT is able to force a higher refresh rate on my monitor ultimately achieving a higher displayed framerate. When you play at 1024x768 using nearly the lowest possible visual settings on Quake III, your GPU isn't the bottleneck very often.

Wait a minute, people still play Quake 3?! As long as you hold 120 fps in that game you're good, so the 8800GT is definitely enough!

 

[Skurge]

Wait a minute, people still play Quake 3?! As long as you hold 120 fps in that game you're good, so the 8800GT is definitely enough!

Maybe he plays it competitively or religiously? I would do the same if for example a 9600GT did better in GTR than my 4870/5770.

 

[Ben90]

Wait a minute, people still play Quake 3?! As long as you hold 120 fps in that game you're good, so the 8800GT is definitely enough!

I haven't found a way to "overclock" monitors using ATi cards

 

[RussianSensation]

You must be into competitive gaming then? Are you using a CRT to get 224 HZ though? Also, why wouldn't an AMD card be able to put out 120hz on a 120hz LCD monitor? If you just "overclock" a 60hz LCD to 120Hz LCD, your LCD isn't going to magically put out 120Hz? What am I missing?

 

[betasub]

It must be a CRT. Who would use 600x480 (not a standard ratio) on an LCD?