NVIDIA Pascal Thread

[antihelten]

I don't think you can pick and choose which cards are "normal" flagships tbh.

5 years ago and earlier the flagships were the 580, 480, 280. Now they are the Titan, 780 Ti and Titan X, basically following a similar pattern. The 980 Ti would have been the 570, 470, 260 in years past (based on the fact that there was a faster, full GPU card costing more) and should be compared to them, not the true flagship cards.

I think we can both agree that dual-GPU cards are not "normal" flagship cards (they are basically just a space saving gimmick for people who want to run crossfire/SLI setups), and cards like Titan and Titan X imho do not replace the normal flagships. For instance even though we got Titan and Titan X, we still also got 780 Ti and 980 Ti, both of which I have included in the graph.

And if we go by your 980 Ti = 570/470/260 logic, then Titan is also a 570/470/260 card, since faster fully unlocked GPUs exists (780 Ti and Titan Black).

Either way other than dual GPUs, the only cards missing in the graph are 8800 Ultra and the various Titan cards, so I'm sure you can just mentally include those and it shouldn't be a problem.

I think it's more going to be:

1080 -full die, maybe DDR5X
1070 - cut die, DRR5
1060 ti - really cut die, DDR5

Well, there is some speculation that GP104 will be have 4 GPCs (vs 6 on GP100), whereas GP106 will have only 2 (and GP107 only 1), so that would leave a lot of room to cut down GP104 before you start hitting GP106 levels.

4 GPCs would mean 40 SMs (assuming Nvidia goes with the same layout as GP100), which could then be cut down to 35 SMs and 30 SMs for 1070 and 1060 Ti respectively. That would still leave a sizeable gap down to a fully unlocked GP106 (20 SMs).

 

[Head1985]

http://videocardz.com/59009/rumor-nvidia-plans-three-gp104-skus-in-june

The latest rumor suggests that Nvidia will launch three GP104 SKUs in June that would replace the 980ti, 980, and 970. If true (grain of salt), I wonder if Nvidia would launch:

1080ti: full die, higher clocks, with GDDR5x
1080: full die, slightly lower clocks, GDDR5
1070: cut die, slightly lower clocks, GDDR5

And price the 1080ti at $650 to ensure volume is low enough to allow GDDR5x supply to build up. That would also keep up the trend of Nvidia pushing up "mid-range" die prices.

/speculation

new level of milking?300mm2 SKU renamed as 1080TI rofl Nvidia..i hope this rumor is bullshit

 

[tviceman]

Paacal's launch is going to be the biggest slow roll in history. GP104 is going to launch with "slow" GDDR5X 10gb/s for the x80 part, and GDDR5 for the x70 part. Then in the fall, they will release another GP104 part with 10% higher clocks and 12-14gb/s GDDR5X for an easy 25% performance boost and that will be the x80 TI.

Insofar as GP100 is concerned, I don't think it's ever going to get a GeForce release. I now believe the rumors of the mythical GP102, and I think that chip will get a release early next year as the Titan, and then as the x80 TI in a refreshed lineup.

My opinion/speculation.

new level of milking?300mm2 SKU renamed as 1080TI rofl Nvidia..i hope this rumor is bullshit

GP104 is going to be the 1080 TI, 1080, and 1070 as I have predicted many times over before this became an official rumor. The only thing I may be off on is what vram the 1080 will have.

 

[FatherMurphy]

I think it's more going to be:

1080 -full die, maybe DDR5X
1070 - cut die, DRR5
1060 ti - really cut die, DDR5

Yeah, that's another possibility, though I would think under this scenario the 1080 would not have DDR5x. Then, in Q4 or Q1 of '17, Nvidia could launch a 1080ti (1085?) with DDR5x and higher clocks. I would hate to see this though.

Edit - Yeah, pretty much what @tviceman said. The slow roll....

 

[RussianSensation]

GP104 is going to be the 1080 TI, 1080, and 1070 as I have predicted many times over before this became an official rumor. The only thing I may be off on is what vram the 1080 will have.

If they artificially assign the 1080Ti name to GP104, might as well raise the price to $649. The mid-range transition from $249 560Ti to $499 680 to $549 980 to $649 1080Ti will be finally fully completed. NV will have successfully established mid-range at new flagship prices, pushing their gross margins beyond 55%.

And now the true GP100 (102?) flagship probably won't see the light of day until March-June 2017. This would be a 3rd and complete generation of confirming bifurcation of a generation into 2 fully distinct parts: 1st half using mid-range as flagship; 2nd part the real flagship comes out.

We as gamers are screwed now because it means an extra year or so wait for a real flagship (but then next gen Volta is 1 or so year away), or put up and shut up and pay flagship prices for mid-range if you want cutting edge tech right away. This is a brilliant strategy reversal of Fermi. Essentially front-load a highly clocked 460 at $500+, then release cut-down GTX470/480 9-12 months later, and finish it off with a flagship 580, but call it Titan series. Then once they launch the full $1000 Titan X Pascal and $699 GP100/102 gaming card, they will conveniently lower the price of the mid-range GP104 to $449-499, much like they did with the 980. The end result is the mid-range next gen series is overpriced for the entire duration of the generation. Well played.

NV is so obvious now, it's not even funny, but it is sad that the graphics card market became this way in just 4 years.

 

[96Firebird]

If that does happen, kudos to Nvidia for being able to charge that much, probably because of lack of competition...

 

[Sweepr]

http://videocardz.com/59009/rumor-nvidia-plans-three-gp104-skus-in-june

The latest rumor suggests that Nvidia will launch three GP104 SKUs in June that would replace the 980ti, 980, and 970. If true (grain of salt), I wonder if Nvidia would launch:

1080ti: full die, higher clocks, with GDDR5x
1080: full die, slightly lower clocks, GDDR5
1070: cut die, slightly lower clocks, GDDR5

And price the 1080ti at $650 to ensure volume is low enough to allow GDDR5x supply to build up. That would also keep up the trend of Nvidia pushing up "mid-range" die prices.

/speculation

Complementing what you said:

NVIDIA plans three GP104 SKUs in June

According to the report, NVIDIA has plans to replace all three most popular high-end GeForce cards in one month. NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti would be replaced by GP104-400 based product, which would be available in reference and custom design. Meanwhile GeForce GTX 980 would also be succeeded by GP104-200 graphics card and also available in custom designs. Lastly, GP104-150 would be AIB-only version with performance close to GTX 970.

It remains unclear how NVIDIA is planning to name cards based on Pascal GP104, but we might be looking at GTX 1080/1800/1070/1700 models.

Most importantly though, this rumor is yet another confirmation of new NVIDIA graphics cards coming in June. With strong possibility NVIDIA might allow its add-in-board partners to showcase new models at Computex. Hopefully AMD and their partners will be ready as well.

www.hwbattle.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=news&wr_id=18732

Here's my prediction:

GP104-400: Geforce X80, Full Die, 8GB GDDR5X 10-12 Gbps - Replaces Geforce GTX 980 Ti
GP104-200: Geforce X70, Cut Die, 8GB GDDR5 8 Gbps - Replaces Geforce GTX 980
GP104-150: Geforce X60 Ti (AIB only), Cut Die, 4-8GB GDDR5 7-8 Gbps - Replaces Geforce GTX 970 (similar performance according to HardwareBattle)

GP104 must be on par / faster than GM200 (at half the die size). That's good news.

 

[MrTeal]

That would be an unmitigated disaster, at least for high end gamers. It would pretty much confirm that we're not seeing a big die gaming card until next summer at the earliest. It'd be fine for nVidia of course, as they'll get to sell $699 Ti's to the same people now and in 2017.

I don't really believe it though, and would imagine 3 cards would launch more in line with what Sweepr predicts.

 

[tential]

Wow.... Nvidia like I said, best business tactics ever if they pull this off.

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk

 

[Genx87]

That would be an unmitigated disaster, at least for high end gamers. It would pretty much confirm that we're not seeing a big die gaming card until next summer at the earliest. It'd be fine for nVidia of course, as they'll get to sell $699 Ti's to the same people now and in 2017.

I don't really believe it though, and would imagine 3 cards would launch more in line with what Sweepr predicts.

Pretty sure we already know there will not be a big die card this year from Nvidia. Pretty sure AMD has admitted not to expect a big die until 2017 as well. No surprise really. It all depends on the difference in performance between the parts for people with 980s if it is worth the upgrade. For people like myself with 700 series or older. It makes the upgrade more reasonable.

 

[USER8000]

That would be an unmitigated disaster, at least for high end gamers. It would pretty much confirm that we're not seeing a big die gaming card until next summer at the earliest. It'd be fine for nVidia of course, as they'll get to sell $699 Ti's to the same people now and in 2017.

I don't really believe it though, and would imagine 3 cards would launch more in line with what Sweepr predicts.

It also opens up Nvidia to something like they did with the GT200 series when ATI came out of nowhere and did the HD4800 series.

 

[utahraptor]

On the bright side it gives a reason to wait for Skylake-E.

 

[MrTeal]

Pretty sure we already know there will not be a big die card this year from Nvidia. Pretty sure AMD has admitted not to expect a big die until 2017 as well. No surprise really. It all depends on the difference in performance between the parts for people with 980s if it is worth the upgrade. For people like myself with 700 series or older. It makes the upgrade more reasonable.

True, but there was still the possibility that we might see a big die in 1H2017. If nVidia were to top out the 1080 series (whatever it ends up being called) with a Ti, we're either left to a 1180Ti possibly in 2H2017 or get some other branding on a big die next summer.

 

[Kris194]

It's not even funny. x70 performance downgraded to x60Ti, x80Ti based on GX104 and x80 performance downgraded to x70 grade.

 

[Creig]

If that does happen, kudos to Nvidia for being able to charge that much, probably because of lack of competition...

or they know the Nvidia faithful are willing to pay that much. If nobody bought them, prices would drop.

 

[flopper]

If that does happen, kudos to Nvidia for being able to charge that much, probably because of lack of competition...

amd is faster in every game coming out with dx12 so thats a lack of competition?

 

[Sweepr]

I can be quite time-specific, but one thing is certain - the launch is approaching , since Nvidia already sends out invitations to the press presentation of the new cards. Reviews and all the information comes in three (maximum four) weeks. At this point it is not clear how much the game has less core CUDA cores (talking about 2500-3200 units ), but it is certain that it has 8 gigabytes of GDDR5 memory clock at 8 GHz . It's not about GDDR5X. The card has the same TDP as the GeForce GTX 980, and features (according to a secret presentation) about 30 percent higher performance than the current model on the market. Frequency in Turbo is apparently enough above 1400 MHz. Unfortunately it is not specified what model overcomes 30 percent ... it could be over the GeForce GTX 980 or GTX 980 Ti. In both cases it will be more powerful than said second card-based chip GM200. Titanium X and GeForce GTX 980 Ti cards are therefore dead ... GeForce GTX outperforms 1080 (talking about the reference version).

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/component/...p100-pujde-i-do-hernich-grafik-nejen-do-tesel

 

[swilli89]

Pretty sure we already know there will not be a big die card this year from Nvidia. Pretty sure AMD has admitted not to expect a big die until 2017 as well. No surprise really. It all depends on the difference in performance between the parts for people with 980s if it is worth the upgrade. For people like myself with 700 series or older. It makes the upgrade more reasonable.

AMD has admitted no such thing that I'm aware of, do you have a link?

The latest that I know of is the GPU roadmap where they had Vega sitting on 2016/2017 which would indicate a late Q4 16 or Early Q1 17 release. This would align with reports that AMD is ahead of nVidia by a ~quarter.

 

[Genx87]

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/component/...p100-pujde-i-do-hernich-grafik-nejen-do-tesel

Eh if they only got about 30% more performance for the same TDP. That is not promising.

 

[Atreidin]

amd is faster in every game coming out with dx12 so thats a lack of competition?

I think we're going to see that explanation more and more as the Nvidia-faithful try to resolve their cognitive dissonance in the coming months about why they're paying so much more for a sometimes negative performance difference compared to the competition. Just assume you had no choice but to pay flagship prices twice and you instantly feel better, it removes your personal responsibility.

 

[MrTeal]

Eh if they only got about 30% more performance for the same TDP. That is not promising.

Same TDP as the 980. If it's 980Ti + 30% performance at 165W TDP, that's pretty good.
That being said, this doesn't seem to go well with the previous rumours of a 256-bit bus. That's 256GB/s of bandwidth, a far cry from the 336GB/s that the 980Ti had. 30% more performance than a 980Ti with 24% less bandwidth would take some pretty impressive new compression.

 

[Glo.]

Same TDP as the 980. If it's 980Ti + 30% performance at 165W TDP, that's pretty good.
That being said, this doesn't seem to go well with the previous rumours of a 256-bit bus. That's 256GB/s of bandwidth, a far cry from the 336GB/s that the 980Ti had. 30% more performance than a 980Ti with 24% less bandwidth would take some pretty impressive new compression.

16 nm process provides 70% lower consumption according to TSMC, or 30% higher performance at the same thermal envelope. So what we can expect is improved Maxwell GTX 980 that will become X80 with 2048 CUDA cores, and 1400 MHz boost clock.

 

[Stuka87]

I think nVidia would be shooting themselves in the foot if they made GP104 a top end Ti part. because typically that is reserved for a big die, big price card.

AMD has pretty much said the purpose of the Polaris chips is to get VR to the masses with a well priced chip. meaning it will not be $650 dollars. That will be reserved for Vega come late 2016 or early 2017 (the road map doesn't point down an exact date, just a range).

So I am thinking nVidia cannot make this a Ti part, that has to be reserved for GP102.

 

[Kris194]

GX104 was reserved for x60 series and look, with Kepler it got into high end cards by old nomenculature

Back in Fermi days

GF100 - GTX 470. GTX 480
GF104 -GTX 460

GF110 - GTX 570, GTX 580
GF114 - GTX 560

Since Kepler

GK104 - GTX 670, GTX 680

 

[nitromullet]

We'll really have to wait and see how this shakes out in terms of performance. If they do what they did last time with the GTX 970, and offer the last generation's top level of performance for around $350, I'm all for it. If if's just going to be a new $650 card with some new tech that offers the same performance as today's $650 card then there isn't really much to get excited about.

Personally, I'm hoping for a $350-400 card that can match my previous GTX 980ti, and that the subsequent big chips from AMD and NV finally make single card 4K gaming a reality.