nVidia needs competition!

[Acanthus]

If ATI folds, theres always Chipzillas entry into the performance GPU market.

Nvidia wont be sitting pretty for long, someone will want a slice of that billion dollar pie.

 

[Stumps]

man you guys can come up with some crap...AMD/ATI isn't going to go out of business.

the video card market has been in this state before, remember when 3dfx was bought out by Nvidia back in late 2000...that left Nvidia at the top with NO competition to it's new GF3, the ATI Radeon 256 was barely equal to the previous champ the GF2 GTS and everybody else was nowhere to be seen (S3 Savage 2000 and Matrox G550)...and to make things worse...ATI was very late with it's new 8500 (hell we didn't even see that one till mid-late 2001)...things got pretty boring back then...but it all worked out in the end, the 8500 came out and after a few driver revisions it offered decent performance, even compared to the faster GF4 TI...

Then in mid 2002 ATI let loose the Mighty 9700Pro, and after Nvidia screwed up with being late and very underperfoming (I suspect that was revenge from all those loyal 3dfx employees) with the Geforce FX series, people started to cry "oh noes, Nvidia is in trouble and will go out of business"...

this is simply history repeating itself once again...I doubt though that the R600 will offer the performance increase that we saw back when the 9700 Pro came out when it was compared to the GF TI4600....

 

[videopho]

Originally posted by: RobertR1

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: thefonz
The worst part is some people seem to be happy about it, just for the sake of being a fanboy.

This is terrible for PC gaming

$600 high end cards to get a decent frame rate, no thanks!

Soon it will be *NEW* nvidia g100! only $1200. But wait you need SLI too!!!!!!

Methinks im getting out of this and buying a 360.

I couldnt be happier since I got my 360. It saves a lot of money. No upgrading every six months.

Same! Instead of spending money upgrading my PC, I spend that money to actually buy and play games on the 360. Waaaay more fun than waiting for drivers

I've used to be a die-hard PC gamer for years but I too finally have thrown in the towel, well sort of. (still do flight & sub sim PC games) Otherwise my other 360 and Wii are much more fun to play for the cheap with no freezes and crashes.

Back to the topic. I'm sure Nvidia is watching AMD's development very carefully and let's hope the tide will turn for PC gaming by mid or later in the year for the better. Nothing beats playing games on a 1920X1200 resolution, IMO.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Matt2
viva la xbox

Not even an Xbox 360 would help me.

All I have to read on here are stories about apoppin RMA'ing a graphics card, or else complaining about Sapphire, or else making lude sexual remarks only to claim innocence in the matter. :Q



:beer:

*alleged*

and Jim made ALL those remarks ... not me ...
:thumbsdown:

and *i tried* ... i even got an nvidia card

and it's STAYING in my case

Sapphire AGP x1950p for sale !
{brand new ... sealed ... returned from RAM ...
cheap}

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Sapphire AGP x1950p for sale !
{brand new ... sealed ... returned from RAM ...
cheap}

How much do you want for it?

PM me, I'm interested!

I just got a new job and feel like spoiling myself...perhaps anyway.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Stumps
man you guys can come up with some crap...AMD/ATI isn't going to go out of business.

the video card market has been in this state before, remember when 3dfx was bought out by Nvidia back in late 2000...that left Nvidia at the top with NO competition to it's new GF3, the ATI Radeon 256 was barely equal to the previous champ the GF2 GTS and everybody else was nowhere to be seen (S3 Savage 2000 and Matrox G550)...and to make things worse...ATI was very late with it's new 8500 (hell we didn't even see that one till mid-late 2001)...things got pretty boring back then...but it all worked out in the end, the 8500 came out and after a few driver revisions it offered decent performance, even compared to the faster GF4 TI...

Then in mid 2002 ATI let loose the Mighty 9700Pro, and after Nvidia screwed up with being late and very underperfoming (I suspect that was revenge from all those loyal 3dfx employees) with the Geforce FX series, people started to cry "oh noes, Nvidia is in trouble and will go out of business"...

this is simply history repeating itself once again...I doubt though that the R600 will offer the performance increase that we saw back when the 9700 Pro came out when it was compared to the GF TI4600....

Rumor has it that ATi really is going to the leave the high end graphics market.

AMD trading at a 52 week low isnt a good sign either, last quarter the lost more money than they earned in the entire year before.

Saying "its been worse" doesnt really apply here, i dont know why people keep saying it.

AMD is in serious trouble with a huge manufacturing disadvantage, and problems even getting 65nm up to snuff when intel is well on its way to 45nm and main stream quad core processors, not to mention Intels 45nm is AHEAD of schedule which means the process is ironing out even better than expected.

There are a lot of factors playing against AMD right now, lets hope they can stay afloat, paying $6B for ATi probably wasnt the best trick up their sleeve when they are at a massive disadvantage in the CPU market and taking huge losses.

 

[mrzed]

AMD isn't going to just roll over and die any time soon. First, competition regulators would likely have something to say about it, second, there is that other 3-letter technology company who might just pick up the peices and do something interesting with them if it ever seemed like AMD might be on the way out.

But I agree the graphics market at the high end seems a little one-sided these days.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: mrzed
AMD isn't going to just roll over and die any time soon. First, competition regulators would likely have something to say about it, second, there is that other 3-letter technology company who might just pick up the peices and do something interesting with them if it ever seemed like AMD might be on the way out.

But I agree the graphics market at the high end seems a little one-sided these days.

A lot of people said the same thing about 3dfx.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Did nVidia improve their picture quality?

Vastly - G80 has the best AF ever seen in consumer space and its edge AA is even better than ATi's Super AA modes.

While that's true, the guy mentioned colors, not AA/AF. You have to remember that AA/AF is not everything with IQ.

Other than that, and AA/AF put aside, Nvidia and ATI have had basically the same IQ for a while, at least with the 6series/x800 series.

Anyways, I agree that the video forums have been boring lately. Maybe we should all create our own video cards for competition?

 

[jdoggg12]

[sarcasm]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh the sky is falling!!! ATI delayed a card i've been waiting my whole life to get!!!111!!oneone!!1

They must be going out of business! They'd never willingly do this to ME! I'm their most loyalest l33t fan evar!! There's no way they found a flaw THIS late in the game!! Only car companies do that or have massive recalls later!! ATI was created by God himself to battle Nvidia!!

There must be a conspiracy to screw the gamers over!! Even though i know bleeding edge graphics accounts for like 5% of their revenue/sale.. they OWE me this card NOW!!!

[/sarcasm]

Take some econ classes guys... no company stays at blitzkrieg pace forever, there's always fast/slow times. Chill out chicken littles!

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: mrzed
AMD isn't going to just roll over and die any time soon. First, competition regulators would likely have something to say about it, second, there is that other 3-letter technology company who might just pick up the peices and do something interesting with them if it ever seemed like AMD might be on the way out.

But I agree the graphics market at the high end seems a little one-sided these days.

A lot of people said the same thing about 3dfx.

3DFX did not make CPUs.

AMD will be fine.

 

[SexyK]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: mrzed
AMD isn't going to just roll over and die any time soon. First, competition regulators would likely have something to say about it, second, there is that other 3-letter technology company who might just pick up the peices and do something interesting with them if it ever seemed like AMD might be on the way out.

But I agree the graphics market at the high end seems a little one-sided these days.

A lot of people said the same thing about 3dfx.

3DFX did not make CPUs.

AMD will be fine.

Just because AMD will be fine (which the will) doesn't mean that they will stay competitive in the high-end discreet graphics market. I'm just sayin....

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: SexyK

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: mrzed
AMD isn't going to just roll over and die any time soon. First, competition regulators would likely have something to say about it, second, there is that other 3-letter technology company who might just pick up the peices and do something interesting with them if it ever seemed like AMD might be on the way out.

But I agree the graphics market at the high end seems a little one-sided these days.

A lot of people said the same thing about 3dfx.

3DFX did not make CPUs.

AMD will be fine.

Just because AMD will be fine (which the will) doesn't mean that they will stay competitive in the high-end discreet graphics market. I'm just sayin....

Seeing as discreet graphics won't even exist in a few years, my thoughts are that they are using some good business sense.

Intel makes gallons of money and has only ever sold low-end integrated graphics. Most people do not game, surprisingly.

I think that AMD is really going to shine ones they get the on-core GPU stuff going. Their graphics tech has got to be far more advanced than intel's, and they definately can compete in the CPU arena.

My thoughts are that it has never been a better time to buy AMD stock, and I think they will overtake intel's marketshare within the next 5 years. :Q

 

[SexyK]

Call me a skeptic, but i have a feeling that it will take more than "a few years" for integrated solutions to outpace discreet add-in graphics. Technology has a long way to go before the power and bandwidth needs of a powerful GPU can be addressed and solutions incorporated into some kind of hybrid chip. That's just my prediction, but I will bump this thread in 2010 and we'll see where we are

 

[cheap]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
If ATI folds, theres always Chipzillas entry into the performance GPU market.

Nvidia wont be sitting pretty for long, someone will want a slice of that billion dollar pie.

BitBoys Oy!

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: SexyK
Call me a skeptic, but i have a feeling that it will take more than "a few years" for integrated solutions to outpace discreet add-in graphics. Technology has a long way to go before the power and bandwidth needs of a powerful GPU can be addressed and solutions incorporated into some kind of hybrid chip. That's just my prediction, but I will bump this thread in 2010 and we'll see where we are

Well, my thoughts are an Xbox 360 type of system layout will be what the near future holds for graphics. A massive cache chip to boost memory performance using the slower system RAM. Not just that, but AFAIK the Xbox 360 was more powerful graphically than any PC upon it's release. Remember, it was using integrated graphics.

If they can do that for $400 or so, just think of what they could put into a $400 *chip* that costs maybe $10 to produce.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: SexyK
Call me a skeptic, but i have a feeling that it will take more than "a few years" for integrated solutions to outpace discreet add-in graphics. Technology has a long way to go before the power and bandwidth needs of a powerful GPU can be addressed and solutions incorporated into some kind of hybrid chip. That's just my prediction, but I will bump this thread in 2010 and we'll see where we are

Well, my thoughts are an Xbox 360 type of system layout will be what the near future holds for graphics. A massive cache chip to boost memory performance using the slower system RAM. Not just that, but AFAIK the Xbox 360 was more powerful graphically than any PC upon it's release. Remember, it was using integrated graphics.

If they can do that for $400 or so, just think of what they could put into a $400 *chip* that costs maybe $10 to produce.

Its still the same from a design standpoint, the Xbox 360s graphics subsystem is basically built into the mobo.

The difference of course being that the GPU memory is also the system memory.

Why this hasnt been done to date is beyond me, we have had high bandwidth solutions that could be shared for a long time now, and the industry seems to be content with keeping them seperate.

 

[SexyK]

Why this hasnt been done to date is beyond me, we have had high bandwidth solutions that could be shared for a long time now, and the industry seems to be content with keeping them seperate.

Really? We have solutions that would give an integrated GPU access to system memory with bandwidth on the order of 86+ GB/sec as in an 8800GTX? Last I checked even DDR2-800 offered 6.4GB/sec. We have a long way to go before we can have that kind of bandwidth integrated into the motherboard...

The only option i see becoming viable anytime soon is something similar to SickBeast's eDRAM concept, but I am still skeptical.

 

[jdoggg12]

They won't go to integrated graphics in any near future... there is too much demand/$$$ for discreet components. The customizability is a huge selling point for the PC, even for the non-enthusiast. It may be an offering, but in the same vein as the current integrated offerings.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: SexyK

Why this hasnt been done to date is beyond me, we have had high bandwidth solutions that could be shared for a long time now, and the industry seems to be content with keeping them seperate.

Really? We have solutions that would give an integrated GPU access to system memory with bandwidth on the order of 86+ GB/sec as in an 8800GTX? Last I checked even DDR2-800 offered 6.4GB/sec. We have a long way to go before we can have that kind of bandwidth integrated into the motherboard...

The only option i see becoming viable anytime soon is something similar to SickBeast's eDRAM concept, but I am still skeptical.

You shouldn't be. The game consoles are prime examples of *fast* integrated graphics. I agree that someone *should* have tried to implement at least midrange graphics into motherboards a long time ago.

Integrating this stuff into a motherboard is really no more complex than building it discreetly. The limiting factor would be board real estate, but I'm sure they can work around that easily enough.

They can also work around the memory bandwidth issues in many ways.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I just wanted to express my state of dispair over the current state of the graphics market.

We have nothing to talk about in here other than 'future products' by ATI, and perhaps issues with some of the newer nVidia cards.

There are no more discussions or flamewars over which company has the fastest card. It is so lopsided that not even the most fervent fanboy can remotely convince *anyone* that the X1950XTX is the fastest card out there.

/psychosis

And this is a bad thing? Facts, not fiction, is what the Video forum SHOULD be filled with. Personally, I like it when a rare case of calm descends around here. Don't worry, I'm sure it won't last long.

 

[yh125d]

Originally posted by: josh6079
That's why you find a game that you love playing and works great with what you have. If you can't find this, perhaps the hardware manufacturers aren't the only ones to blame.

That's right. I'm more than happy playing WoW and halo

 

[GundamSonicZeroX]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I just wanted to express my state of dispair over the current state of the graphics market.

We have nothing to talk about in here other than 'future products' by ATI, and perhaps issues with some of the newer nVidia cards.

There are no more discussions or flamewars over which company has the fastest card. It is so lopsided that not even the most fervent fanboy can remotely convince *anyone* that the X1950XTX is the fastest card out there.

/psychosis

Now I know why this was created.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: mrzed
AMD isn't going to just roll over and die any time soon. First, competition regulators would likely have something to say about it, second, there is that other 3-letter technology company who might just pick up the peices and do something interesting with them if it ever seemed like AMD might be on the way out.

But I agree the graphics market at the high end seems a little one-sided these days.

A lot of people said the same thing about 3dfx.

3dfx was a tiny company, even when compared to AMD of 2000, 3dfx sealed it's fate by not allowing other companies to manufacture 3dfx based Video cards when they aquired STB in late 1998, shortly before the Voodoo 3 was released, this pretty much killed any revenue generated from Graphics chips and licencing, it also drove up the cost of 3dfx video cards.

It wasn't that 3dfx couldn't compete with Nvidia on a product level, but rather a whole heap of stuff ups by 3dfx management that saw that company's demise.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: mrzed
AMD isn't going to just roll over and die any time soon. First, competition regulators would likely have something to say about it, second, there is that other 3-letter technology company who might just pick up the peices and do something interesting with them if it ever seemed like AMD might be on the way out.

But I agree the graphics market at the high end seems a little one-sided these days.

A lot of people said the same thing about 3dfx.

3dfx was a tiny company, even when compared to AMD of 2000, 3dfx sealed it's fate by not allowing other companies to manufacture 3dfx based Video cards when they aquired STB in late 1998, shortly before the Voodoo 3 was released, this pretty much killed any revenue generated from Graphics chips and licencing, it also drove up the cost of 3dfx video cards.

It wasn't that 3dfx couldn't compete with Nvidia on a product level, but rather a whole heap of stuff ups by 3dfx management that saw that company's demise.

I wasnt really referring to the situations being similar for the companies.

Just that when 3dfx was going down in flames there were people that said the same crap "they arent going anywhere" "its been worse for them in the past" "just wait for rampage!" etc.